LSD - Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

I hope this isn't true -
but watching my local WalMarts -
they seem to have dropped or reduced LSD batteries -
eneloops have been cleared out for some time now;
I no longer see any Ray-O-Vac Hybrids;
and I can't seem to see the Duracell Pre-Charged,
other than a few packs with their value charger.

Are LSD rechargeable batteries losing ground?

Please let me know if you have seen an INcrease in stocks of LSD batteries anywhere?

Actually, I have never, ever seen or heard of LSD batteries before I joined CPF, so I would guess that either 1) they are gone off the shelves before they can restock them; or 2) LSD batteries are costing too much. I would love to see a pair of Eneloops in my Walmart, my poor old Duracells are getting beaten to death by my Magellan.
I would probably pick up a pack of Energizer NiMH 2850mAh's before I even blinked at a 2100mAh LSD battery, though.

In my area, they seem to be holding their own, if not increasing a bit.

At Wal-Mart I have the choice of Rayovac Hybrid AA, AAA, C, D, & 9V, Rayovac 4.0 AA & AAA, Duracell Pre-Charged, and Pure Energy AA & AAA cells.

Actual Eneloops still seem to be a Costco-only item here since they disappeared from other B&M stores over a year ago.

Rebadged Eneloops are also available at one of the large national grocery chains under the Presidents Choice brand.

Black Rose said:

In my area, they seem to be holding their own, if not increasing a bit.

Click to expand...

Thanks Black Rose - that at least sounds encouraging-
it was depressing seeing or rather not seeing LSDs in WalMarts -
they do still have the Kodak Pre-Charged - but the price is now $10.99 when they started at $7.99.....

TheInvader said:

Actually, I have never, ever seen or heard of LSD batteries before I joined CPF

Click to expand...

Perhaps it's lack of LSD advertisement and product education/information that makes TheInvader's remarks pretty typical for non-enthusiasts?

What I have been seeing is that Walmart is replacing NMH's that have a mAh rating on them to those without any. They don't say on the battery and they don't say on the package. They replaced the 2000 mAH Rayovac Hybrids with Rayovac batteries that are only 1400 mAh and may be charging the same price. My rule is, if it doesn't give a mAh rating on the battery, I won't buy it.

you should know that if anything is good it is Discontinued, because people only need it Once
some of the best things in the world were unavilable, because they didnt keep selling them to the same people over and over again.
wallmarf feeds the disposable society (somewhat) cheap china junk that last a while and you go back and get another one.
they also base thier stocking on what is (and isnt) selling at the time, they are in it for the money, not a public service sort of.
if things arent rolling off the shelf, they will use that space for something that does.

they have "midnight specials" sometimes on stuff that is "out of season" and will sell baskets of junk for 10c on the doller , to rid themselves of items that wont TURN, and you can guarentee whatever they filled that space with afterwards got thier 90c back over and over again. for every single LSD cell that would last 500 times over, they have always had 5000 disposables available, and pumping them out the door.

UnknownVT said:

they do still have the Kodak Pre-Charged - but the price is now $10.99 when they started at $7.99.....

Click to expand...

That is one of the LSD battery brands I have never seen here.
I'm guessing they just don't make it available in Canada.

Perhaps it's lack of LSD advertisement and product education/information that makes TheInvader's remarks pretty typical for non-enthusiasts?

Click to expand...

The only advertisements I have seen for LSD batteries are the TV spots and magazine ads for Duracell Pre-Charged.

Until I joined CPF last year and heard about Eneloops, I didn't realize Sanyo still made batteries :shrug: My prior experience with Sanyo cells was with Cadnica AAs in the mid 80's.

I was at Costco last weekend and saw a couple looking at rechargables.
I assume they were drawn to the regular Duracell rechargables due to name recognition.
I told then that the Eneloops were much better batteries, but all I got was a look like I had 2 heads.

Light Sabre said:

What I have been seeing is that Walmart is replacing NMH's that have a mAh rating on them to those without any. They don't say on the battery and they don't say on the package. They replaced the 2000 mAH Rayovac Hybrids with Rayovac batteries that are only 1400 mAh and may be charging the same price. My rule is, if it doesn't give a mAh rating on the battery, I won't buy it.

Click to expand...

I think that's more to do with RayOVac rather than WalMart.

However it's been a proven fallacy that the higher the capacity the better the rechargeable battery.

Unfortunately as many here have found out and know that higher capacity NiMH batteries tend to be more fragile, and can be damaged due to accidental or deliberate misuse/abuse.

So much so that almost all of the higher capacity NiMH develop high rates of self-discharge fairly quickly.

Hence the infatuation with LSD (Low Self-Discharge) batteries here on CPF.

So buying just by capacity may not be such a good idea.....

More dying Energizer 2500's

Duracell 2650 batteries dying

VidPro said:

you should know that if anything is good it is Discontinued, because people only need it Once
some of the best things in the world were unavilable, because they didnt keep selling them to the same people over and over again.

Click to expand...

Yep, sad but true. Back to the topic at hand, LSD cells never really seemed to be that widely available in retail stores here but you can still get all you want online. Come to think of it, rechargeables in general have only been afforded a fraction of the shelf space compared to disposables. Not faulting the stores really-you devote floor space based on how much profit per unit time a product makes. They may make more per unit with rechargeables but they'll also sell far less.

I reckong they're gaining ground in Australia.

All supermarkets now carry at least one brand of LSD AA and AAA, and the price differential over "conventional" NiMH is not great.

Great post VidPro. Too true.

The Source stopped carrying Eneloops here in Canada a while back. When I asked about it, they fed me a line about them being unreliable as well as having a short lifespan and wearing out quickly. I've found the exact opposite to be the case with Eneloops in my use, so either they were sourcing counterfeits or the representative was misrepresenting.

VidPro pretty much hit the nail on the head. You don't have to re-buy a reliable product, so it stands to reason that they may make stocking decisions based on the fact that the product doesn't seem to move after the initial rush is over. Couple that with charge retention and Alkalines lose even more of the advantages they had over rechargeables, impacting those sales as well.

It's all about the number on the side of a LSD being smaller than the number on the side of an average regular nimh. Example, in a local store on the same shelf I can get the rebranded enloops (Duraloops) for 18.90 Euros for 4xAA, about $26.70, but just next to them on the shelf are Energizer 2500 at the same price. Yes, the infamous Energizer 2500, and they seem to sell a lot more than the Duraloops because I secretly marked a pack of the Duraloops and it didn't move for days. The Energizers seem to fly off the shelf, along with 1 or 2 other Energizer capacities and some 2650 mah (I think) regular Duracells.

Why? All John Public sees is 2500mah for Energizer, 2000mah for the Duraloop, and the choice is made

The Energizers being green and silver and shiny is probably a factor as well I suppose.

xenonk said:

The Source stopped carrying Eneloops here in Canada a while back. When I asked about it, they fed me a line about them being unreliable as well as having a short lifespan and wearing out quickly. I've found the exact opposite to be the case with Eneloops in my use, so either they were sourcing counterfeits or the representative was misrepresenting.

Click to expand...

I bought my very first sets of Eneloops from The Source when they were blowing them out for a great price.

The representative was a tool.

Lack of advertising about the benefits of LSD cells and slow moving product were the real reasons.

I was just in the Walmart in Richmond, CA yesterday. They had Rayovac Hybrids, Duraloops (white top, made in Japan), and the Kodak pre charged. I'm not sure if they had all of those in aaa, but definitely in aa. The Target stores around here also have the Rayovac Hybrids and Duraloops (possibly the Kodaks too, in the camera section). Armed with my knowledge from reading CPF, I'm only buying Duraloops or Rayovac Hybrids these days.

lovecpf

Low Self-Discharge losing ground?

Maybe at Walmart, and other big box stores, but not in general. The big problem, is they are marketed as pre-charged, with less emphasis on the real value with is the low self-discharge rate.

In that most people don't understand what low self-discharge means, they see 2800 MAH for the same price as 2000 MAH lsd cells and buy the 2800 MAH cells. As mentioned, its all about what sells on the shelf.

As time goes on, and more people are educated, the lsd batteries will become the choice, and the normal NiMH cells will start losing ground.

Something not designed to be replaced every 10 minutes and thus not flooding the shelves of wally world?

Yes, they're losing ground

ColoradoStoneman said:

In that most people don't understand what low self-discharge means, they see 2800 MAH for the same price as 2000 MAH lsd cells and buy the 2800 MAH cells.

Click to expand...

But the vast majority have absolutely no idea what a mAh is or would even notice that the capacity of different batteries are different.

Then again, how could we expect the vast majority of people to know such things if they don't sit around on a Friday night reading about flashlight batteries???lovecpf

The thing to keep in mind is that the USA is, in general, not a "science-friendly" culture. Given the emphasis on testing and proper procedure for characterizing flashlights, batteries and such here at CPF, I'd say that as a group we're way out of the mainstream.

With few exceptions, bright people are treated with suspicion in the general culture, science is too often equated with "mad scientist" excesses, and all kinds of ridiculous woo-woo is preferred over rational, provable facts. Given all this - can you imagine how difficult it would be to communicate to the "bigger is better" general public why something with a smaller rating number is actually the better choice?

I've been buying 3 year old Eneloops (which actually made it down below 1.2 volts!) at the local "liquidator" store. They still come up to full capacity on the BC-900. Maybe the world is just overloaded with LSD cells right now, and they just won't go away.

Maybe after the nuclear holocaust, roaches will be eating Twinkies and using LED lights with LSD batteries?