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Thread: AW brand 10440's now with Soshine label ! !

  1. #1
    Flashaholic* TooManyGizmos's Avatar
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    Default AW brand 10440's now with Soshine label ! !


    Brand change awareness alert :

    Lighthound is a *reseller* of "AW" Li-Ion batteries..... locally in the U.S.A.

    Lighthound is now selling Soshine 10440's with the Soshine label on them as the "AW" brand 10440 battery.

    Just thought some of you would like to know.

    They are 400mAh .... with much longer positive buttons on them.

    Should work better in lights with polarity protection rings and avoid poor contact issues.

    .
    ( I called them and made sure it was NOT just a picture mistake on their site )
    .
    Last edited by TooManyGizmos; 09-25-2009 at 04:40 PM.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: AW brand 10440's now with Soshine label ?

    Interesting. They also have "AW's" unprotected batteries from DLG and some others "AW's" without the name brand...

    How they explained this brand mismatch?

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    Flashaholic* 45/70's Avatar
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    Default Re: AW brand 10440's now with Soshine label ?

    Quote Originally Posted by wapkil View Post
    Interesting. They also have "AW's" unprotected batteries from DLG and some others "AW's" without the name brand...

    How they explained this brand mismatch?
    I bought 4 unprotected 14500's direct from AW close to 4 years ago and they were blue DLG's, as info.

    Interestingly, they still read 4.08-4.12 Volts, 24 hrs after being charged to 4.20 Volts. They haven't been used a whole lot, but under 1.5-3C loads. Not bad, I'd say.

    Dave

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    Flashaholic* TooManyGizmos's Avatar
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    Default Re: AW brand 10440's now with Soshine label ?

    Isn't 4 years reaching their shelf life limit ?

    I thought they only lasted 4 to 5 years after production.

    Didn't SilverFox say that about Li-Ion's ??

    4.08 is kinda low . Not much in reserve ? Isn't 3.70 considered DEAD ??
    Last edited by TooManyGizmos; 08-28-2009 at 03:06 AM.
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    Flashaholic* TooManyGizmos's Avatar
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    Default Re: AW brand 10440's now with Soshine label ?

    This was AW's reply about changing to SoShine 10440's ........


    'Quote from AW battery sales thread on my question :
    __________________________________________________ _________________________

    TooManyGizmos,

    I have a lot of request for a 10440 with a bigger nipple so it can work in the LF2XT. These soshine 10440 fits the bill and their performance are just as good.

    AW
    ~ "She" says ... ... I have ... TooManyGizmos ~

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    Flashaholic The Dane's Avatar
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    Default Re: AW brand 10440's now with Soshine label ?

    Quote Originally Posted by TooManyGizmos View Post
    Isn't 4 years reaching their shelf life limit ?

    I thought they only lasted 4 to 5 years after production.

    Didn't SilverFox say that about Li-Ion's ??

    4.08 is kinda low Isn't 3.70 considered DEAD. Not much in reserve ? ??
    No!
    Around 3V is 5% from dead. And 4.08V is 5-7% from full.
    3.7V is the average voltage of the LiPo cell type.
    Dont go spoiling a perfectly good thread with too many facts.
    Henrik
    Creator of The Axe and the BigM*g and i'm sure more silly projects will follow

  7. #7

    Default Re: AW brand 10440's now with Soshine label ?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Dane View Post
    No!
    Around 3V is 5% from dead. And 4.08V is 5-7% from full.
    3.7V is the average voltage of the LiPo cell type.
    Might want to rethink that 3V figure. There's lots of testing information on rcgroups.com which points to 3.6V being depleted. I will say, however, they're generally pushing LiPo with a high C discharge, but still, Voltage is a very good indicator of charge level. There are manufacturers who do state the cutoff is 3.0V, but that's for CAPACITY testing, not normal everyday use.

  8. #8

    Default Re: AW brand 10440's now with Soshine label ?

    Quote Originally Posted by clintb View Post
    Might want to rethink that 3V figure. There's lots of testing information on rcgroups.com which points to 3.6V being depleted. I will say, however, they're generally pushing LiPo with a high C discharge, but still, Voltage is a very good indicator of charge level. There are manufacturers who do state the cutoff is 3.0V, but that's for CAPACITY testing, not normal everyday use.
    I believe the 3.0V cutoff is usually quite good for normal use. Many manufacturers have it set much lower and too low for my moderate-current needs (e.g. AW at 2.5V). The cutoff voltage is under load, it's lower than the battery voltage would be when the load is removed.

    I'm not sure if the voltage is a good indicator of the charge level for almost depleted cells. I think it is universally agreed that ~2.8V or lower cell resting voltage (i.e. without the load and after a rest period when the voltage can recover) indicates an overdischarged cell. I think ~3.2V usually means that the cell is empty but not overdischarged. 3.6V may indicate that a bit of energy is left but really not much - for practical purposes it can be considered empty.

    4.08V-4.12V probably means that the cell after 24h holds up ~80%-90% charge. I don't know what it means and how the cells behave but after 4 years, no one should complain even if they were already completely dead

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* 45/70's Avatar
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    Default Re: AW brand 10440's now with Soshine label ?

    Quote Originally Posted by TooManyGizmos View Post
    Isn't 4 years reaching their shelf life limit ?

    I thought they only lasted 4 to 5 years after production.

    Didn't SilverFox say that about Li-Ion's ??

    4.08 is kinda low . Not much in reserve ? Isn't 3.70 considered DEAD ??

    I have always kept my Li-Ion's in the fridge at 35-40F (regardless of chemistry) when not in use. This appears to make a big difference in longevity, in my experience.

    As for the condition of a LiCO Li-Ion cell. After charging to 4.20 Volts and then letting the cell rest for a few hours (I let them sit for 24hrs) the condition of the cell can be determined by the voltage.

    4.20 Volts is new or 100%

    4.10 Volts 90%

    4.00 Volts 80% Below this voltage the cell should be recycled.

    Dave

    EDIT:

    The above proceedure is for determining the condition of a LiCO Li-Ion cell.

    To determine the remaining capacity of a LiCO Li-Ion cell, measure the OC voltage of the rested cell.

    4.2 volts 100%
    4.1 about 90%
    4.0 about 80%
    3.9 about 60%
    3.8 about 40%
    3.7 about 20%
    3.6 empty for practical purposes
    <3.5 = over-discharged

    Dave
    Last edited by 45/70; 08-28-2009 at 10:26 AM. Reason: Added additional information

  10. #10

    Default Re: AW brand 10440's now with Soshine label ?

    Quote Originally Posted by 45/70 View Post
    As for the condition of a LiCO Li-Ion cell. After charging to 4.20 Volts and then letting the cell rest for a few hours (I let them sit for 24hrs) the condition of the cell can be determined by the voltage.

    4.20 Volts is new or 100%

    4.10 Volts 90%

    4.00 Volts 80% Below this voltage the cell should be recycled.
    I think that none of my cells was able to hold exactly 4.20V. Even when new they were dropping to something around 4.18V-4.19V.

    I haven't tested it but I think that the problem with this method may be in the fact that the cell has to be fully charged for it to work. If the charger doesn't use the correct CC/CV algorithm but some strange invention (like most cheaper chargers do) it's quite possible that it doesn't fully charge the cell. Even if the battery is working perfectly, it may not hold the expected voltage simply because it wasn't correctly charged.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: AW brand 10440's now with Soshine label ?

    Quote Originally Posted by clintb View Post
    Might want to rethink that 3V figure. There's lots of testing information on rcgroups.com which points to 3.6V being depleted. I will say, however, they're generally pushing LiPo with a high C discharge, but still, Voltage is a very good indicator of charge level. There are manufacturers who do state the cutoff is 3.0V, but that's for CAPACITY testing, not normal everyday use.
    with the high discharge RC batteries with the fat plates and all, the numbers are different. I usually use the big 2c max batteries , but they didnt have some in the size i wanted, and i got high discharge ones instead like the 10C type, and the discharge curve (especially under load) is hugely different. and MY load is not different, and my load is well below 1c even. Basically RC batteries are hugely different then most of the stuff were using. High C batteries are not the highest capacity for weight/size ratio, they are built for speed discharge (and charge)

    so not only the rate they use them, but the way the cell is built can make a difference.
    it certannly makes a difference in the numbers.

    i swear this is related to the little tiny cells all crammed into little tiny packages, so this really isnt as off topic as it sounds :-)
    Last edited by VidPro; 08-28-2009 at 10:49 AM.

  12. #12
    Flashaholic* 45/70's Avatar
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    Default Re: AW brand 10440's now with Soshine label ?

    Quote Originally Posted by wapkil View Post
    I think that none of my cells was able to hold exactly 4.20V. Even when new they were dropping to something around 4.18V-4.19V.

    I haven't tested it but I think that the problem with this method may be in the fact that the cell has to be fully charged for it to work. If the charger doesn't use the correct CC/CV algorithm but some strange invention (like most cheaper chargers do) it's quite possible that it doesn't fully charge the cell. Even if the battery is working perfectly, it may not hold the expected voltage simply because it wasn't correctly charged.

    Yeah, I've had cells from AW that actually could hold 4.20 Volts after a day, but most will drop to 4.18-4.19 Volts, even when new. I believe this is just that cell degradation has started. And yes, you do need a charger that properly charges cells to 4.20 Volts.

    I should point out that when checking remaining capacity, the figures from 3.80 Volts and lower have been shown to have increasing inaccuracy due to differences between manufacturers cells.

    Dave

  13. #13
    Flashaholic* mr.snakeman's Avatar
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    Default Re: AW brand 10440's now with Soshine label ?

    Quote Originally Posted by 45/70 View Post
    Yeah, I've had cells from AW that actually could hold 4.20 Volts after a day, but most will drop to 4.18-4.19 Volts, even when new. I believe this is just that cell degradation has started. And yes, you do need a charger that properly charges cells to 4.20 Volts.

    I should point out that when checking remaining capacity, the figures from 3.80 Volts and lower have been shown to have increasing inaccuracy due to differences between manufacturers cells.

    Dave
    And who has such a charger? I want one now!

  14. #14

    Default Re: AW brand 10440's now with Soshine label ?

    Quote Originally Posted by VidPro View Post
    with the high discharge RC batteries with the fat plates and all, the numbers are different. I usually use the big 2c max batteries , but they didnt have some in the size i wanted, and i got high discharge ones instead like the 10C type, and the discharge curve (especially under load) is hugely different. and MY load is not different, and my load is well below 1c even. Basically RC batteries are hugely different then most of the stuff were using. High C batteries are not the highest capacity for weight/size ratio, they are built for speed discharge (and charge)

    so not only the rate they use them, but the way the cell is built can make a difference.
    it certannly makes a difference in the numbers.

    i swear this is related to the little tiny cells all crammed into little tiny packages, so this really isnt as off topic as it sounds :-)
    I will agree there's still life in the cell after 3.60V, but it's declining rapidly after that. On my iCharger 208B that's feeding LogView, the voltage curve falls off quick after 3.6V, even at just a 1C discharge, and that's with AW 2200mAh 18650's. Will there be damage to the cell under 3.6V? In the case of a single cell, not likely if the discharge to 3.0V is hit then discontinued. Am I going to worry about it? Not really; I already have too many Li-Ion cells. Besides, they're cheap.

  15. #15

    Default Re: AW brand 10440's now with Soshine label ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.snakeman View Post
    And who has such a charger? I want one now!
    A charger that stops precisely at 4.20V? Hobby charger; namely, the iCharger line. Latest firmware lets you calibrate voltage at the charging leads, input power leads, and the balancing taps. How's that for precision? Oh, and you can dial in whatever cut-off voltage you want.

  16. #16
    Flashaholic* TooManyGizmos's Avatar
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    Default Re: AW brand 10440's now with Soshine label ! !



    Can anyone who got these Soshine 10440's give a runtime/satisfaction report ?


    Any opinion's yet .......................

    .
    ~ "She" says ... ... I have ... TooManyGizmos ~

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