how about "dielectric tune-up grease"?
I have some Permatex brand, and it seems ok so far....
how about "dielectric tune-up grease"?
I have some Permatex brand, and it seems ok so far....
I use straight Krytox grease on all my lights and see no reason to consider anything else. This way I can play Lego--carefree--with any parts I want, and without ANY worries as to lubricant compatibility or strange, icky mixtures from lube choices of previous owners all over the world.
All the Krytox properties are ideal: chemical stability and inertness, wide temperature range, highly lubricating, not sticky but viscous enough to stay in place, gorgeous "feel" on threads, non-offensive/non-changing color, neutral smell. Compared to the money spent on lights, it is not expensive. A little bit goes a long way.
Over the course of two nights I first cleaned and then relubed the collection. For cleaning, I grabbed IPA, a few microfiber cloths, a tiny mirror, some dentist picks, and various other blunt probing tools. I avoided Q-tips or paper towels as they leave their shredded remains on threads. On external threads, I usually just ran the IPA-wetted cloth along the thread path with my fingernail. Also took the opportunity to very carefully file away nicks or damage on threads. O-rings were, of course, removed before cleaning and then went into a plastic baggie along with their respective light.
For lubing, i put two or three very thin lines of grease perpendicular to the thread grooves and spread it evenly with my finger. The excess left on my finger went on the o-rings.
I've had very good result's with nano-lube. I used weight 10 on titanium and anodized alu threads and it get's very smooth.
I use weight 85 on knived with good result's, I also use a drop og 5 ore 10
to rech the pivot without taking the knife appart.
I only used it for 2 weeks so I can't tell if it eats O-rings ore not, but
if it does I'l report back.
Got some teflon/PTPE tape. Works wonders on my SS light. Haven't tried it on Al lights yet but people are reporting good results with it on Ti Lights
This is a great thread. I'm a newbie and didn't know what to use. I picked up this white lithium grease at my local hardware store. http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3...gl8F6TXC8SBHbl
It is a spray which I spray a small amount on a rag then wipe on the threads. It seems to be very clean and works well, doesn't smell. I wonder which category this falls in?
in that case, if you look up information about those orings,
"Excellent resistance to petroleum-based oils and fuels, water and alcohols"
in the thread, you said, "Try to avoid petroleum-based lubricants, as they can cause o-ring damage".. but if they don't really effect the most common oring material, does it matter? Using that logic, wouldn't silicone based lubrication be bad because it messes up silicone orings?
here is a bit more information regarding orings and materials that are good/bad for them:
for Nitrile oringsCOMPOUND COMPATIBILITY RATING
1 - Satisfactory
2 - Fair (usually OK for static seal)
3 - Doubtful (sometimes OK for static seal)
4 - Unsatisfactory
x - Insufficient Data
Petrolatum Ether 1
Petroleum Oil, Above 250°F 4 (I hope we don't brings our lights to those temperatures....)
Petroleum Oil, Below 250°F 1
Petroleum Oil, Crude 1
also, I emailed Christian regarding nano-oil's msds
it does indeed have those petroleum distillates:
...but, does that matter?
please correct me if I'm wrong or I may end up making a fool of myself..
..unless I already have..
My personal opinion is a list should not be started and categorized with Krytox in the #1 position, when the OP is selling it in his sig. Even if some regard it as the best, with respect to Tekno_Cowboy, I have to question the objectivity. It also does not make sense to have Super Lube and Tri-Flow in different categories if they are stated to be similar.
I do not agree that as soon as you hear there is some petroleum based vehicle that it belongs in the "poor" category. That is your decision, but based on my use of Nano-Oil, I do not support it since I am not seeing any significant breakdown of my O-rings in about 2 years of use.
I have not used Krytox, but have used Nyogel 759G & 779.
I have well over a hundred lights, mostly Aluminum, but also a number in stainless & Ti. I started using Nyogel because SF uses it. However, I was always irritated by the messy black/gray grease that would get on my fingers and anywhere I rested the lubed parts. This happened no matter if I meticulously cleaned the threads, and reapplied Nyogel (mostly 759 on threads). There were some threads that had some degree of a grit or tight feeling, but I just dealt with it.
I switched to St. Claire's Nano-Oil when hearing about it from Milkyspit. I was astonished at how well a couple drops of an oil worked better than Nyogel on every thread I used it on. It gave considerable improvement especially when I used it on threads that were not well cut. The lights that had a slight scraping sensation were transformed--as if their threads were cut by a master craftsman.
My understanding on Krytox, and I believe similarly with Nyogel is that they do not provide the same level of metal on metal friction protection, where Nano-Oil excels. My observations of the black/gray wearing discoloration of Nyogel is happening because the metal on metal friction is causing breakdown. Black is from the O-rings, and gray from the aluminum. With Nano-Oil, I have not noticed any of the discoloration. In addition, so little is required for adequate lubrication, there is no mess when opening the lights.
I'm sure that Krytox and Nyogel are wonderful on highly polished (frictionless) surfaces such as pistons or O-Ring lubrication, but soft aluminum threads--especially tightened under a tailcap spring-tension are a totally different application. I think Krytox/Nyogel would be fine in a harder Ti type application where threads are well made and the metal is hard. I won't use those grease lubes on my Aluminum lights.
It is true that Nano-Oil has a petroleum based vehicle, so it is recommended to use BUNA if you are worried about your O-ring health. Personally, I can replace O-rings, but once your threads are galled or microscopically broken down, that is lost forever. Christian has told me that his goal with Nano-Lube was to protect metal on metal friction, not the O-rings. Despite that, in the almost 2 years I have been using Nano-Oil, I have not had to replace any O-Rings.
For those who have not seen it, St. Claire has posted the MSDS pdf here for his Nano-Oil.
Curious, what are the basis for the ratings of these lubes, directed towards threads or orings or an all purpose lube for both?
As you know, there are different types of Nyogel lubes that are designed for different purposes.
Last edited by darkzero; 09-18-2009 at 10:31 PM.
Probably not the best idea, but I've been using Break Free CLP from my firearm cleaning kit on most of my lights (threads and o-rings). It works very well, and even if it reacts with the o-rings, they can be replaced when they degrade. Any thoughts? Anyone use CLP?
Who the hell would spend $50 on a flashlight? - My Mother
From my signature you can tell I recommend Krytox 50/50 - I use that on my Ti lights.
For my aluminum lights I use one of the nyogel products (759g) I got from lighthound (yes it does get black stuff on your fingers later)
As far as my selling Krytox, the only reason I sell it is because I havn't found anyone selling small amounts of it. I do it mainly because I really love the lube myself, and I want to give other people the chance to try it without spending $40-50 for the smallest size from the manufacturer. If you can find someone else who sells it in small sizes, I will be more than happy to put their link in the post instead of mine.
The reason Tri-flow is in a different category is that it's the first time I've heard of it. If a couple more people recommend it, it will go to the Very Good section.
I've put the petroleum-based products in the Poor category because in past threads, they have been discouraged. If the consensus in this thread says that they should be moved to the Good section (barring any other reason to not have them there), then they'll be moved.
While I can respect your opinion of Nano-oil, in my experience I have the opposite opinion when comparing it to Krytox. In my opinion, the Krytox performs far better than the Nano-oil, especially on poor threads.
Nano-oil is a touchy subject. Opinions of it range from "it's the greatest stuff ever" to "it's no better than 3-in-1 oil". Because of this, it's very difficult to place in any specific category, not just because it has petroleum distilates in it. That is why it was removed from the list: for further input. I will keep an eye on how it fares in this thread, and if most responses are good, I will put it in the Good cateogory.
As far as original ranking goes, it's mostly based on my opinion, and the opinion of the person who suggested it. Once it's on the list, it can always be moved if people agree that it belongs in a different category. The category I put it in is by no means the final word on it. It's just a starting point.
A good point to note is that the numbers do not denote any sort of order. They could just as easily be dashes as numbers, if this will reduce confusion.
D'OH! Maybe i should read before posting.
EagleTac's: 2 P100A2, P10A2, T100C2 Mark II - JETBeam Raptor RRT-1 - Romisen RC-G2 II
Don't know what's next but I'm definitely looking!
I've been thinking about the category placement of the lubes, and came to the conclusion that the thread might benefit from adding a fifth category for nominated lubes.
As lubes would be nominated, they would go into this category, and then be moved based on the recommendations of forum members.
Does anyone have any suggestions regarding this idea?
I've been using moly/lithium wheel bearing grease on my flashlights since 2001, and the O-rings are still fine. The threads on my oldest aluminum light are so polished and smooth I can't even take a picture of them to show it off because the flash reflection burns-out all the detail of the threads in the photo. I've recently switched to a homemade mixture that works better on my new titanium lights and seems to work better on aluminum as well, but it too is petroleum-based.
I could care less about the O-rings. They can be replaced; threads can't be. As far as I know, nothing but nothing lubricates metal-on-metal as well as petroleum distillates, which among other reasons is why motor oil is still a petroleum-based product when there are so many other options available.
Their descriptions can imply that both can be used for threads. 759G/760G is good for electrical contacts & aluminum threads. 779ZC is also formulated to reduce wear on aluminum surfaces.
Nyogel works great but not always & depends on the application. I find that Nyogel does not perform well on Ti threads. It also does not perform well for pistons on PD driven lights. Makes them "sticky". In some cases where Nyogel has been applied to threads like on a twisy tailcap for example, if it's not used for a while it tends to stick & must be "worked in" to get smooth again. Excessive amounts of Nyogel can also make threads feel sticky.
Here's some well documented info on Nyogel
So many lights, so little money (cause I spent it on lights). I'm not afraid of the dark, the dark is afraid of ME!
I like the Dieelectric grease, work great, like nyogel and Deoxit gold in one.
TC, thanks for your follow up note, and please don't over-react to my comments, as I made sure to say that Krytox may even deserve to be in the top position, and that I have not used it...so technically I am not even qualified to comment on it. I would feel the same about any ranking system for anything where the person assigning the rank is also selling it--the point being that it's not personal towards you.
I can only compare Nano-lube to Nyogel, and my main criteria is seeing the progressive discoloration of Nyogel mainly in aluminum threads.
As far as I am concerned, that discoloration is only coming from one thing, and it is the color of the aluminum. If Krytox has the same discoloration over time, that alone would be an adequate criteria for me not to use it on my aluminum threads.
We will have to see if those using it note a similar metal discoloration--assuming they cleaned their threads before applying it. If they do, then I would not regard it any better than Nyogel in aluminum lights.
My personal observation over 2 years with over a hundred flashlights is that Nano-Oil is far superior to Nyogel. Amazingly, I have never needed to reapply it. I have not used the remainder of my two tubes of Nyogel since I started with it. In all this time, my threads remain clean which is the acid test I look for.
Honestly, I don't care if anyone else likes it or not, nor if St. Claire sells a lot of it or not. The other Arnold guy's Quicken brand also worked well, but he was an obnoxious twit, and I never bought from him again.
If the petroleum vehicle is harming my lights or O-rings, I should be seeing some discoloration when I open my lights to charge batteries. I don't, and I have not gone to the trouble of replacing O-Rings with BUNA...so that is why I feel it is not correct to assume petroleum vehicle automatically means bad.
If a lube makes the threads feel smooth, that is an important sign. If you later find discoloration of the lube, that is a more important indication that metal on metal abrasion is occurring.
You say a lube that makes the threads feel smooth is a sign of wear, but isn't that the point of adding a lube?
I would really like to hear you thoughts when comparing Krytox to Nano-oil and Nyogel. I know my own opinions comparing it to Nano-oil, but I gave away my Nyogel before I got the Krytox. Would you be willing to try it if I sent you a small amount?
While I share your opinion of Mr St. Claire's competitor, let's try to keep the Nano-oil/Nanolube war out of this thread. It has shut down enough threads already.
On Petroleum Products:
So far it's looking like they aren't as much of a problem as they have been made out to be. If it still looks like this in a couple of days, I'll move the products that have been added to the Poor category simply for that fact to the good category.
wait, i found the FAQ: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...light=silicone
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sho...d.php?t=191738 , where i read about comparisons between Buna-N, EPDM, and Silicone. No I'm not related with RocketTomato other than i bought 1 set of silicone rings from him .XR-19 Head:
Window seal - #019 EPDM (or the GID silicone)
Head to pak seal - #017 Silicone (red)
Having said that may I suggest a tabulated form of brands or category of lubricants indicating of its best application for each material.
Buna-N: Nitrile Rubber
-20 to 212 F
-30 to 100 C
Advantage- cheap, widely used
Disadvantage- poor resistance to sunlight, ozone and weathering
EPDM: Ethylene Propylene
-40 to 212 F
-40 to 100 C
Advantage- water, steam, ozone and weather resistant
Disadvantage- Not recommended for use with use synthetic lubricants
-80 to 400 F
-62 to 204 C
Typically used in static seals, not recommended for dynamic seals.
Advantage- Increased temperature range. Resistant to sun damage, ozone, fungal and biological attack
Disadvantage- Poor tear and abrasion strength.
Anyway, thanks TS for initiating this thread
Feeling a smooth threading is one important feature. However, no matter how smooth a lube feels does not mean it is preventing metal scraping against metal. This is going to be more of a problem with softer metals like aluminum, and especially if threads are not precisely made and matched between parts.
I don't think you can judge the value of a lube by using harder metals, or lights made with meticulous thread craftsmanship by McGizmo, Mac, Milky, Modamag, etc. Here is an example of my first "real" light that started my flashaholism, SF L2. The damage to the outer threads when viewed with magnifier shows actual metal scraping/scratch damage that correlated with using Nyogel. I can capture it with my digital microscope, but even this macro view shows some of it.
Since using the Nano-Lube, I have seen no progression of wear, additional scratching, or dirty threads. (click for larger view)