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Thread: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

  1. #751

    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    Is it possible that some lights/batteries emit vent gases that interact with certain metals and/or lubricants?

  2. #752

    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by diesel79 View Post
    It must be something to do with the aluminum they use. I use Superlube on all of my Malkoffs, three of which have bare aluminum threads, and I have zero of that gray material forming. Im not sure if its the lube thats the problem, if this is even considered a problem?
    i had asked Kevin Wall from Synco (manufacturer of superlube) about it and he explained that superlube does not dissolve aluminum, metals or o-rings. it is a fully harmless substance by itself. So of course it must have something to do with the aluminum they use and i bet that Malkoff uses a different aluminum (alloy or quality) than Klarus or 4Sevens.

    It is common logic that soft (or cheap) aluminum will wear down faster than hard toughened aluminum. Just look at the keyring holes (holes for splitrings) and you can see how soft 'flashlight aluminum' is. The holes wear down fast (and eventually tear or break) and logically a lube cant avoid the wear and tear because the material (=aluminum) physically remains what it is: soft!

    If a lube (or substance) hardened or toughened the aluminum surface, then this would stop the wear and tear because hardness is defined as the ability of two materials scratching each other. The hardest surface is provided by diamonds. You cannot scratch diamonds with any metal because a diamond is harder. In diamond threads there wouldnt be *any* wear and tear and logically you wouldnt need any lube to reduce the abrasion because abrasion doesnt take place. Superlube would reduce the friction though.

    What superlube does is reducing the friction in aluminum threads thanks to the slippery Teflon particles. But superlube does not harden the surface. The aluminum is still soft and will wear. And that's why i get the grey gunk after a very short while of twisting the Quark head (Tactical UI).

    Anyone ever lubed his/her keyring holes (to reduce the wear and tear)??
    Last edited by shelm; 02-27-2012 at 06:46 AM.

  3. #753
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    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    I've been using finish Line Extreme Fluoro http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002L5...7288321&sr=8-1 on my lights.

    I haven't noticed any ill effects but should I be wary of using...
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  4. #754
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    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by shelm View Post
    we need to get some agreement in our opinions otherwise the reader is confused haha.

    Maybe superlube isnt responsible for the grey gunk buildup in the 4Sevens threads (Me either i dont believe in the theory of Teflon particles being harmful) and, most importantly, maybe superlube doesnt cause it (e.g. by dissolving the soft surface) .. but i am saying that i am very disappointed with the superlube performance after it had been hailed, praised and recommended in the OP as "Very Good Lube". In this respect i believe that superlube isnt better than any other synthetic oil/grease based on Teflon (there are tens or hundreds of lubes with Teflon; one only has to sort out the synthetic ones since they wont harm the o-rings). Superlube is a cheap lube after all. 2.xx$ for a mini tube (or oiler) at the counter desk so how could we expect that it works better than expensive gun oil? Superlube works fine in most cases (anodized threads, o-rings of any kind) but is imho not too recommendable in special cases (Titanium threads, bare aluminum threads) where it does an okay job but not a convincing job.
    OK OK Uncle!! Superlube may not satisfy 100% of the requirements of the upper 1/2 of 1%ers in this group. For the rest of us it is inexpensive, easily available world wide and useful for just about every moving surface we will encounter. I have yet to find an O-ring or rubber part that Superlube will degrade. For the most part gun oils and grease are petrol based products and destroy many o-rings as did Vaseline.

    Thank you everyone for your interest and contribution.

    P.S. I have mixed various grades of diamond dust with lubes and oils to smooth out threads on titainium lights.
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  5. #755

    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    Again, the discoloration of the thread lube can be contamination due to oxidation/reaction with something else. A forensic analysis of the uncontaminated, and contaminated lube samples,and the thread materials in question, would allow differentiation as to the identity of the contamination.

    If the contamination is found to be the same aluminum alloy composition as the light threads for example, wear is indicated, if its a new compound, then the nature of that compound would indicate the reaction that produced it. Sometimes the contamination can be traced to another part that is in close enough proximity, that is subject to wear, other than the one under scrutiny. IE: As an example, a switch can have its own wear and tear and/or lubrication/degradation issues, and dust/by products from the switch can be later found in thread lubricant samples. The same for battery carrier movement within a carrier, etc.

    And so forth.

    Food for thought.

  6. #756
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    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TEEJ View Post
    Again, the discoloration of the thread lube can be contamination due to oxidation/reaction with something else. A forensic analysis of the uncontaminated, and contaminated lube samples,and the thread materials in question, would allow differentiation as to the identity of the contamination.

    Sometimes the contamination can be traced to another part that is in close enough proximity, that is subject to wear, other than the one under scrutiny. IE: As an example, a switch can have its own wear and tear and/or lubrication/degradation issues, and dust/by products from the switch can be later found in thread lubricant samples. The same for battery carrier movement within a carrier, etc.

    And so forth.

    Food for thought.
    O-Rings and gaskets need to be watched. Ten years ago pretty much all o-rings on flashlights were carbon rubber. The more oil we applied the more they swelled, stuck and decayed. Peter Gransee was the first here to adress the problem and Introduced Nyogel. When I came along in 2002 I introduced "Lube Gell' later to become Super Lube. I had used a single tube of lube Gell on my Mag Lights for about 10 years before I was aware of CPF.
    Fred R. Elias Jr. N162E
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  7. #757

    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TEEJ View Post
    And so forth.

    Food for thought.
    nice one, thanks.

    flashlights is all about happiness. and my colleagues and i we are unhappy with superlube on bare aluminum threads as experienced with the cleaned(!) threads of 4Sevens and Klarus.

    so what lube are you using, and what threads (flashlight models) have you tested it on, and are you happy with the results? and what is the degree of your happiness?


  8. #758

    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    LOL - I agree about happiness.

    I haven't had any interactions myself, but I do forensics work, and failures can be due to many sources, some synergistic. This is the reason I posed some potential alternate pathways to achieve the same result.

    In my field, the simple answer is often correct, IE: The contamination and the aluminum are the same color, therefore, the contamination might simply be due to aluminum wearing off, etc....

    ...albeit it is not ALWAYS correct, sometimes a similar appearing condition can be assumed to be from the obvious source, but turns out to be from a second or third source, or a source created when certain conditions are met, yet not from either source per se.

    If our goal was to find the reason for the contamination, then I suggest we explore it methodically rather than jump to conclusions. If our goal is to simply say "this works and this doesn't", we can just do that instead...and, most certainly, be happy.


  9. #759

    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    Great thread, I started researching lubrication and came across this http://www.sandsmachine.com/grease_t.htm Maybe you folks know about this already, anyway, I thought it was a good find.

  10. #760
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    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    I love the silky smooth action on my lights when using ballistol, but i came across something today:

    Cleans & dissolves traces of copper...
    Since some PCBs have copper electrical traces, what would be the long term effects of using this? Am i thinking worst case scenario?

  11. #761
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    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    I haven't read all 26 pages of this thread, so I apologize if this has already been answered. I have been wondering if Ballistol would do well for a flashlight. From what I have read it doesn't have anything in it that would be harmful. Ballistol contains medicinal grade mineral oil, alkaline salts of oleic acid, several alcohols, Benzyl Acetate and an oil from vegetal seeds. The mineral oil is unchlorinated and conforms to the specifications of US Pharmacopeia XX.

    What do you guys think? Also on a side note, it tends to cure into the metal if it is used over long periods of time. I don't know whether that would be a good thing or not.
    "Maybe you should just stick to fire on a stick... it's received excellent reviews here - plus it's a time tested design..."

  12. #762

    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SimulatedZero View Post
    I haven't read all 26 pages of this thread, so I apologize if this has already been answered. I have been wondering if Ballistol would do well for a flashlight. From what I have read it doesn't have anything in it that would be harmful. Ballistol contains medicinal grade mineral oil, alkaline salts of oleic acid, several alcohols, Benzyl Acetate and an oil from vegetal seeds. The mineral oil is unchlorinated and conforms to the specifications of US Pharmacopeia XX.

    What do you guys think? Also on a side note, it tends to cure into the metal if it is used over long periods of time. I don't know whether that would be a good thing or not.

    I'm thinking the mineral oil might harm the O-rings.

  13. #763
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    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SimulatedZero View Post
    I haven't read all 26 pages of this thread, so I apologize if this has already been answered. I have been wondering if Ballistol would do well for a flashlight. From what I have read it doesn't have anything in it that would be harmful. Ballistol contains medicinal grade mineral oil, alkaline salts of oleic acid, several alcohols, Benzyl Acetate and an oil from vegetal seeds. The mineral oil is unchlorinated and conforms to the specifications of US Pharmacopeia XX.

    What do you guys think? Also on a side note, it tends to cure into the metal if it is used over long periods of time. I don't know whether that would be a good thing or not.
    Mineral based gun lubricants tend to be the worst flaslight lubes. Gun lubes are designed strictly for metal to metal contact and can damage or swell some o-rings. If you want to use a gun lube use a synthetic like Militec, good on o-rings and your guns will thank you too.
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  14. #764
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    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusterdude View Post
    Great thread, I started researching lubrication and came across this http://www.sandsmachine.com/grease_t.htm Maybe you folks know about this already, anyway, I thought it was a good find.
    Good info, Thanks. Some of us(Me included) think Extreme Fluoro is repackaged Krytox. The syringe applicator is very convenient, expensive but a little goes a long way.
    Fred R. Elias Jr. N162E
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  15. #765

    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by N162E View Post
    Good info, Thanks. Some of us(Me included) think Extreme Fluoro is repackaged Krytox. The syringe applicator is very convenient, expensive but a little goes a long way.
    I want to know how well Super Lube would rate on that test fixture, I have been using Super Lube forever with great result's. Re-packaged Krytox, interesting.

  16. #766
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    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    I have a little problem in lubing o-ring
    My o-ring tends to absorb the silicone and becomes dry and swollen
    Any suggestion?

  17. #767

    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jh333233 View Post
    I have a little problem in lubing o-ring
    My o-ring tends to absorb the silicone and becomes dry and swollen
    Any suggestion?
    wich flaashlight?

  18. #768
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    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by shelm View Post
    wich flaashlight?
    Surefire and SWM
    They tend to absorb my silicone

  19. #769
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    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jh333233 View Post
    Surefire and SWM
    They tend to absorb my silicone
    It must be your lube that's you're using. What name is it? For o-ring i find Krytox PFE to be the best and Nyogel 760 the best on threads. Neither will cause the oring to harden up at all.

  20. #770

    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    Surefire and Sunawayman are expensive brands so i am at loss here what's going on with your sucking (literally lol) o-rings. the OP recommends synthetic oils, and i agree that superlube keeps my o-rings (of any unspecified material wtf knows anyway) juicy and slippery with no sucking or degradation whatsoever. personally i do recommend superlube for/on o-rings, personally i dont recommend superlube for any kind of threads except for anodized (i.e. anodized aluminum) threads where *any* lube could be used anyway, even silicone. to me, anodized aluminum is like a teflon frying pan. its coated, protected, and slippery. you could "lube" a frying pan with anything, it wont stick. same with anodized aluminum: even scratch tests with knives would fail because the blade simply slides over the slippery surface.

    silicone is sticky though (and few know this!). so i like to use it to increase thread friction.

    you should try superlube. it's one of the cheapest in a hardware store anyway. the oiler costs like 2.xx$ (unless you get ripped off).

  21. #771
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    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    Here it is

    Colorless, peanut-butter-like
    I actually got it from a airsoft shop
    I asked: I would like to have silicone, no aerosol spray, perferred slurry-like one
    And they handed me this, saying that it is o-ring safe (And pricey as well)
    I didnt want to use liquid one because they get evaporated or wiped off easily, while there isnt any better option like Nyogel

  22. #772

    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    nice picture, stuff looks good to me.
    however in your case (silicone o-rings?) it doesnt seem to work well, too bad.
    ebay should be a good source of buying specialized items cheaper than from a local retailer.

  23. #773
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    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jh333233 View Post
    I have a little problem in lubing o-ring
    My o-ring tends to absorb the silicone and becomes dry and swollen
    Quote Originally Posted by jh333233 View Post
    Here it is

    Colorless, peanut-butter-like
    Quote Originally Posted by jh333233 View Post
    Any suggestion?
    Yes. My suggestion is that you read post #1, and stop fooling around with that garbage.
    Resistance is futile...

  24. #774

    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    I've found that FrogLube makes my threads work great...and no oring issues.


  25. #775
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    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DM51 View Post
    Yes. My suggestion is that you read post #1, and stop fooling around with that garbage.
    Pure Silicone grease: This is a very common lube that can be found just about anywhere. It is generally safe for use, with the only exception being use on silicone o-rings.


    Erm.
    Mind if i ask if SF and SWM use silicone o-rings?
    And by like-dissolve-like principle, would silicone o-rings get dissolved by the lubes?

    I could endure the problem'o swell and it seems it even tightens the thread, providing better water resistance
    It isnt really tight, but having a nice friction. If swelling is the only problem, im willing to feed it with this grease

    (I could say it is much better than SF bezel + VG E2C adapter w/o lube)

    I also have spare o-rings came with packaging of SWM

    This problem appears mainly on my SWM o-rings
    My SF's o-rings do not seem to get swollen and stuck, instead it got very slippery on my C2

    SF's manual says i should lube it with silicon-based lube but not petroleum product
    I think they shouldve told the whole story
    Last edited by jh333233; 03-22-2012 at 10:10 AM.

  26. #776
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    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    It is extremely unlikely that your O-rings are made of silicone rubber, as it is an unsuitable material for O-rings. If they are not made of silicone rubber, silicone grease will not have the effect on them that you describe. Therefore, the grease you are using, whatever it is, is clearly inappropriate and should not be used.

    It is difficult to understand why anyone should persist in disregarding the sensible advice contained in post #1 and instead decide to use something that is so obviously unsuitable.
    Resistance is futile...

  27. #777
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    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by llmercll View Post
    I followed the steps in the first post, but my light is still gunky!! It's a solarforce L2r

    I cleaned it very well, so that it was shiny metal, then applied a little bit of silicone grease and started to work it in. The more I worked it in, the "grainier" it felt. When I took the cap off, it was a dark sludge again! When I tested it without the grease, it screwed on very nicely. The only thing I can think is there is some seriously stubborn caked on dirt somewhere on the tailcap (which is harder to clean) that I missed. Any ideas whats going on?
    Quote Originally Posted by llmercll View Post
    One thing I noticed about my silicone grease is that it was very thick and sticky. The o-rings don't appear damaged thankfully.
    My apologies for being a little late on this issue but I have a pretty good guess about the above. Some silicone greases can contain (and I am not making this up, I have some of this exact stuff in my lab and it's in the fine print on the tube) finely ground glass. I tried this out a long time ago and had the exact same results as you reported - an immediate change in the rotational feel from smooth to gritty. I think that the glass is added as a thickening agent for the silicone grease. I can't think of a worse 'lube' for what we're trying to do.
    In the past we have had a light which flickered, in the present we have a light which flames, and in the future there will be a light which shines over all the land and sea.
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  28. #778

    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    I did a search and could not find the answer to my following question: is nano-oil suitable for o-rings? I did see posts where folks were using krytox on the o-ring and nano-oil on the threads. What i have not seen is folks using nano-oil on the o-rings as well. I also saw references of folks using nano-oil on the threads and a thicker grease on the o-rings for water proofing. Wouldn't the heavier weight nano-oil work for this as or is it not thick enough? How about the nano-grease? would that not work on the o-rings and help with the water proofing?

    Thanks,
    JD

  29. #779
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    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    It is difficult to understand why anyone should persist in disregarding the sensible advice contained in post #1 and instead decide to use something that is so obviously unsuitable.
    Perhaps i should change my lube
    PS: It seems that i got cheated because the bottle "says" it is silicon grease
    Gotta find alternatives

  30. #780
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    Default Re: Comprehensive Grease and Lube Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JudasD View Post
    I did a search and could not find the answer to my following question: is nano-oil suitable for o-rings?
    You obviously failed to include the most obvious place to start your search: post #1. Nano-oil is mentioned there.
    Resistance is futile...

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