Maxpedition AGR/1        
Results 1 to 30 of 30

Thread: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

  1. #1

    Cool Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Reviewer's Note: The Legion II (Standard Edition) was provided for review by Neoseikan. Please see his sales thread in CPFMP for more info.

    Warning: very pic heavy, as always

    Legion II specifications:
    • CREE MC-E M-bin;
    • 6061-T6 Aluminum
    • Hard Anodized (type III) Grey finish;
    • Orange Peel (OP) textured reflector included, smooth reflector available separately
    • SHOTT B270 Double side multi layer coated 99% transparency glass lens
    • 4 layer driver board; 0.007mohm resistor;
    • Uses 3*18650 Li-on (not included)
    • Max regulated output 742 lumens
    • Runtime on Max output – up to 3 hours regulated, depending on battery source
    • Five output levels
    • Built-in battery gauge
    • Optional stainless steel bezel and tailcap available
    • CPF price: $179 plus shipping (includes OP reflector)

    Following on my other reviews of multi-emitter lights, CPF user neoseikan has sent me a sample of the currently shipping Standard Edition Neofab Legion II (MC-E). Please note that unlike most of my other reviews, this is not a mass-produced item shipped directly to me from the production line or through a dealer. I would consider these Neofab lights to be more along the lines of a custom or hobbyist-built light, with all that entails.




    To begin, you may notice some chips and blemishes on my review sample (especially a very noticeable gouge on the bezel ring at one point). Neoseikan was running low on samples, so he sent me one with surface imperfections for review (rather than passing these parts along to paying customers). Not a problem for me, but I honestly don’t know what to expect from an actual purchased shipping light. Normally, I should expect those to be in near-perfect condition upon arrival.

    Despite the blemishes on the review sample, overall quality of the anodizing seems high. I personally quite like the color and over hand-feel of the light. The design is fairly streamlined, and the fins around the base of the head are smooth to the touch (i.e. no sharp edges anywhere). There are no identification labels of any kind on my sample.

    There is no package picture to show you, as the review sample was sent alone wrapped in layers of protective foam and bubble wrap, in a bubble-envelope mailer. As such, I am not clear about how these units get shipped normally, and with what sort of instructions/extras.

    Here is how it looks in my hands, and compared to a couple lights of its class:



    From left to right: AW 18650 protected battery, Neofab Legion II, EagleTac M2C4, JetBeam M1X, Taiblo ACE-G

    Legion II Weight (no battery): 352.6g
    Legion II Dimensions: Length 181mm, Width (bezel) 53.2mm, Width (tailcap) 45.9mm

    Although a bit taller, overall weight is very similar to the EagleTac M2C4 (SSC P7 version). The weight feels appropriate for the overall size, and the light seems well-balanced (i.e. not top-heavy, like the heavier EagleTac M2XC4)

    So, let’s begin with the tailcap:




    As you can see, the Standard Edition has a plain flat tailcap that allows tailstanding. The light uses a side-by-side 3-cell battery arrangement, hence the need for 3 springs in the tailcap. This design is fairly unique – the contact disk in the tailcap spins freely, and has a notch allowing you to line up the board with the battery tube to insure correct polarity and contact with all three batteries (the body notch is located at ~3 o’clock in the pic below).



    This is why the contact board has to be able to spin freely – once you line up the tailcap springs/board with the body tube, you will need to screw down the tailcap portion without moving the contact disk/springs. In practice, I found this worked well – as long as you take care to properly line everything up before you get started scewing down the tailcap.

    If you look down the battery tube in the pic above, you will see the other contact disk at the top of the battery tube, with another set of three springs. If you look carefully, you will see the battery tube body makes direct contact with the board at the 3 points that surround the batteries. It’s important to note here that if you ever remove the head from the battery tube, make sure this contact disk remains firmly in place. If that contact disk were to get accidentally rotated while batteries were loaded, you would risk shorting out the cells (again, mine stayed firmly in place with all my disassembly/testing, but it is something Neoseikan recommends you watch for).

    Note that there is no physical indication here as to how to install batteries into the light. I've reproduced below the original manual Neoseikan e-mailed around to CPF members, explaining the battery orientation.




    Again, I don't know what instructions come with the light, but I think actual labels on the body tube would be a good idea.

    So how does the control mechanism work?



    Normally, you would not need to ever remove the battery tube from the head. In my case, the light arrived with the spring disconnected from the control ring, so I had to open it up to take a look.



    The control mechanism is due to a sturdy spring that coils around the head several times. It is fixed within the body of the head at one end (closest to the emitter), and is free-floating at the other end. If you look inside the control ring external cover piece on the left above, you will see there’s a hole (around 3 o’clock) where the free-floating end of the spring slips into. This had come loose on my sample and needed to be re-attached. Neo informed me that he didn’t want to glue it in place on my sample, since he figured I would want to disassemble the light.

    With everything in place, you can twist the control right left or right about an eight of a full turn in either direction. Switching is controlled by a rapid turn-release (see below for a discussion of the UI).




    The Legion II comes with a very deep OP reflector. This is likely to result in good throw and narrower overall spillbeam width.

    One comment – consistent with the custom-built nature of this light, there are few things to look out for here. Although the parts seem to be of high quality, there is a fair amount of noticeable dust and smudges on the inside of the lens of my light. While cosmetically unappealing, this doesn’t really affect the beam in any measurable way. However, it is not a good idea to leave it in there, as the dust could dislodge and potentially damage the reflector or emitter. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to get the bezel ring unscrewed yet – it is stuck on there pretty tight. I haven’t tried my strap wrenches yet, but the old underside-of-a-mousepad trick didn’t work (it simply shredded my mousepad).

    Here are some comparison beamshots, taken on Max on 18650 AW protected Li-ion. Distance is about 0.5 meters from a white wall.






    I chose the JetBeam M1X as a direct comparator, since it also has a deep reflector (although in the M1X’s case, this is combined with a wider and shallower front opening to provide wider spill as well).

    Although taken at a different exposure setting (and therefore not directly comparable in output to the two lights above), the two EagleTac M2 lights should give you an idea size-wise as to how a 3xCree (M2XC4) and a fairly typical MC-E light (M2C4) spillbeam patterns compare.




    The point here is that the Legion II spillbeam width is narrower than a typical MC-E/P7 light – it’s even a bit narrower than what you find in a multi-emitter setup like the M2XC4. This means that all of the light is distributed over a narrower area – resulting in a narrower but brighter spillbeam. Note that the actual spill area is quite acceptable in width for the real world.

    Also as expected, center-beam throw is very good – nearly as high as my M1X. But the Legion II reflector design seems to be doing a much better job minimizing the “donut hole” and cross-hatching appearance of the quad-die emitter.

    Unfortunately, I haven’t had the chance to take outdoor beam shots yet (still to come … ). But personally, I find this beam pattern to be very pleasing outdoors. The narrower spill beam means that the periphery of what you are looking at is actually much better lit up than with many of the other quad-die setups.

    User Interface

    The Legion II uses a variation of the same user interface found on the earlier Spartanian II. Although this fairly unique UI may seem complex at first, it is actually quite simple and quickly becomes intuitive.

    Simply put, the light has two set states that you can program - and either one can be accessed directly from off. The light uses a spring-activated control switch, accessed by twisting the middle section of the light. Below, I will describe the standard arrangement for right-handed lights. Apparently, neoseikan can provide lights with circuits customized for left-handed use (i.e. reversed hand-operation of the switching described below).

    For momentary-on at either of the two set levels, simply twist the mid-section to the left or right and hold it there. The left and right positions are the two set-able states of the light. Release the mid-section, and the light shuts off.

    If you hold the light in the on position for more than a few seconds, the light will flash briefly to indicate it is set to remain on once you release the switch. The time required varies for two sides - about 5 secs for the left position, about 1 sec for the right. This is apparently deliberate so that you can set one level for momentary on without an immediate lock-on (i.e. to the left), and one level to quick lock-on (i.e. to the right). But personally, I would prefer the same time for both sides.

    Once the light is in the constant-on state, you can alter the light output by doing a quick twist-and-release switch to the left to reduce the brightness level one step, and a quick switch to the right to raise the level. The light has 5 levels in total (see runtimes below for relative outputs)

    To set a new default level for the left or right on-states, simply unscrew the tailcap once the desired level is chosen. This will turn off the light and activate the memory for that side (i.e. whichever side you turned the light on in).

    To turn off the light normally, without resetting the memory, twist the mid-section switch to the right and hold it there for about 2-3 secs. It's necessary to hold it that long so the circuit knows you are not just trying to do a brightness step increase.

    An interesting feature of these lights is the option to a battery check. From on, simply twist to the left and hold. It will flash a number of times to let you know the relative battery life remaining.

    The only significant difference from the Spartanian II is the number of levels – there are only 5 on the Legion II. Scroll down to the runtimes later in this review for a comparison of their relative outputs.

    I found the UI easy to use once I got used to the rapid twist/release needed for switching.

    No PWM

    I was unable to detect any sign of PWM at any output level with my home-made sound card-oscilloscope setup.

    Testing Method: All my output numbers are relative for my home-made light box setup, a la Quickbeam's flashlight reviews method. You can directly compare all my relative output values from different reviews - i.e. an output value of "10" in one graph is the same as "10" in another. All runtimes are done under a cooling fan.

    Throw values are the square-root of lux measurements taken at 5 meters from the lens, using a light meter, and then extrapolated back to estimate values for 1 meter. This will be my standard way to present throw on these types of lights from now on. The beams don't really have a chance to fully converge until typically several meters out

    Some of the other lights take a couple of minutes to settle into their regulated output state (i.e. their initial output is higher, but not for long). As such, all my output and throw numbers are taken after 2 mins of continuous runtime (on 2x18650 AW Protected cells).

    Throw/Output Summary Chart:



    Consistent with what you saw in the beamshots, the Legion II has excellent throw for a MC-E light – second only to my M1X.

    Max output is also very consistent with the M1X, which is certainly quite respectable for this class of light. The main difference between the lights being the spillbeam pattern, of course.

    Output/Runtime Comparison

    All 18650 runtimes were done on AW protected cells (2200mAh).



    As expected, given the 3x18650 battery source, the light has admirable regulation at all output levels.

    Output levels are well-spaced, but I wouldn’t consider any of them particularly “low”. This is a common issue for current-controlled lights. I should note though that this is a departure from the Spartanian II, which switched from current-controlled to PWM at the lower output settings, in order to provide true low output.





    Comparison to other multi-emitter lights will need to take into account the 3x battery source for the Legion II, compared to the 2x config in most of the competition. After factoring that in, overall output/runtime efficiency doesn't seem as high as the EagleTac offerings, but it is definitely higher than the PWM-based competition. Absolute runtime performance will be at least as good as the EagleTacs, when matched for output (thanks to the extra battery in the Legion II).

    Potential Issues

    The light lacks any physical indication on how to properly insert the batteries – you need to refer to the e-mailed instructions.

    The warning in the instructions about not unscrewing the head refers to ensuring that the contact disc at the top of the battery tube doesn't move (and potentially short the batteries). Best to ensure that the batteries are not installed in the light during any sort of partial disassembly, just in case.

    Light lacks a true "low" mode, consistent with its apparent use of current-controlled technology.

    The light runs only on 3x18650 Li-ion (i.e. no primary cells accepted).

    There is no attachment point for a wrist lanyard, and no holster or other retaining device is provided with the light. It is also not as "grippy" as some lights in this class, but I find the ridge detail helps provide sufficient grip.

    My sample came with noticeable dust and marks on the inside of the lens.

    Preliminary Observations

    I am very impressed with the beam profile of this light. Thanks to the deep reflector, you get a narrower spillbeam than typical for this class – but that means you get brighter spill that you can actually use at intermediate distances (i.e. narrower spill also means brighter spill). The overall beam pattern of this light is actually closer to many 3x single-die emitter configurations (but without the overlapping daisy-flower appearance close-up). IMO, this pattern is very well suited to a general-purpose multi-emitter light - it will light up the immediate and intermediate area around your position quite nicely.

    And it is no slouch in the throw department either – it is one of the furthest throwing quad-die-based lights in my collection at the moment (second only to the JetBeam M1X). But the notorious donut or cross-hatching pattern of the quad-die emitter is remarkably reduced on my sample. Simply put, the standard OP reflector does an all-around commendable job.

    Ergonomically, I also like the overall feel and shape (reminds me of a lightsaber ). Of course, I have larger than average hands, so your experience could be different. For example, my wife (who is a petite size) found it very difficult to activate the control ring one-handed. For most users, it will likely just be a bit of a stretch. The resistance of the control ring spring seems to be slightly improved (i.e. slightly stiffer) compared to my earlier Spartanian II.

    The user interface is relatively unchanged from the Spartanian, except for reduced number of output levels. In fact, that is one of the few areas in which the Legion feels like a step backward – it's lowest output level is not as low as most the competition in this space (including the other current-controlled lights). Something like the Spartanian II's dual-circuit design that provided true low modes (through PWM) would be a bonus here.

    Overall output/runtime efficiency is quite good – better than the PWM-based competition - but not quite as high as the EagleTac offerings. Of course, the extra cell means that absolute runtimes will be a bit longer than other 2x18650 lights for the same output level.

    As for the actual control ring interface, I can see some people preferring it more than others. I find it fairly intuitive when you get used to it (except the bit about unscrewing the tailcap to memorize on-state output levels ). And the relative battery life remaining indicator is something I wish more manufacturers thought of.

    In the end, this is a thoughtfully-designed light that is fun to swing around. But it is important to understand what you are buying here – this is more of custom-built and hobbyist-designed light. There are bound to be a few inconsistencies and rough edges from sample to sample, and you won't receive the typical bundle of extras or level of support that you would get from a mass-produced item of a major manufacturer.

    As with all lights, I recommend you check around the reviews and user opinions on all the models in this class, and then choose the light that is right for your needs and uses. I'm still planning to do a round-up review for this multi-emitter class (but am a little swamped with new lights to test at the moment ). For the time being, please check out the master list of reviews in my signature, to compare to other lights mentioned here.
    Last edited by selfbuilt; 09-29-2009 at 07:28 AM.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Latest hobby: whiskyanalysis.com. Latest flashlight review: Thrunite TN42.
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator
    DM51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Borg cube #51
    Posts
    13,339

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Great review, as always! The Legion II has attracted a great deal of interest in numerous threads, and this definitive review is a valuable addition.

    Moving it to the Reviews section.
    Resistance is futile...

  3. #3
    Flashaholic
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA.
    Posts
    384

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Really a great review! I have been on the fence about this light. I really want it but have not ordered it yet. Just seems like there is too much involved with this light. I will probally get it eventually and will probally like it allthough I am still on the fence and don't know wether to get it. As always another great and informative review THANKS! Chef

  4. #4
    Flashaholic jahxman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Doylestown, PA
    Posts
    385

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Thanks for the great review as always Selfbuilt!

    I received my Legion II Standard Edition today; I ordered it July 31st.

    The light arrived in a padded envelope, wrapped in several layers of foam padding. There was no documentation or accessories included, just the light; the packing material appeared to be adequate to protect the light, as it arrived unscathed.

    I can report that the anodization is flawless on mine, and the color match of the various sections of the light is quite close; compared to my Jetbeams the color matching is quite good.

    I noticed that there is no lubrication on any threads; there was some dusty material that blew away easily when I first unscrewed the tailcap and the head section. Definitely have your thread lube handy when you get this one!

    I also puzzled for a few minutes over battery orientation before doing a search on CPF to find the pictures you reproduce above; now my batteries are loaded correctly, but some polarity marks would be very helpful here.

    My one initial concern when examining the light was that the emitter was not centered relative to the reflector; it was as far to one side as it could get in the small opening at the bottom of the reflector.

    I was able to remove my bezel to check this more closely; doing so I noticed that there are o-rings on both sides of the lens, and the pressure of screwing down the bezel is what holds the reflector and lens in place. The outer o-ring had pinched a bit and a loop lay a few MM out onto the lens before I first loosened the bezel.

    The lens and reflector drop out easily with the bezel and outer o-ring removed. I would have preferred the reflector be screwed on internally perhaps for a more definite positioning. Visually examining the star that the emitter is on shows that it is centered on the heatsink.

    When I reassembled the reflector, lens and o-rings I noticed that when I tighten the bezel firmly, the last 1/8th turn seems to tilt the reflector to the side a bit, resulting in the emitter not being perfectly centered in the reflector (on mine, don't know how others would fare.) I find if I want the emitter centered well I have to not completely tighten the bezel; I am trying to figure out some solution to this.

    Overall it is quite an impressive and attractive light, and I'm looking forward to tonight to compare with some of my other lights.
    Last edited by jahxman; 09-29-2009 at 09:14 AM.
    Seeing the small is called Clarity. Keeping flexible is called Strength. Using the shining Radiance, You enter the Light, Where no harm can come to you. This is called Enlightenment. - Lao Tzu

  5. #5

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Quote Originally Posted by jahxman View Post
    I received my Legion II Standard Edition today; I ordered it July 31st. ... Overall it is quite an impressive and attractive light, and I'm looking forward to tonight to compare with some of my other lights.
    Thanks for the detail info jahxman - good to know how a recent shipping version of the light compares.

    For the record, mine was also lacking in thread lube upon arrival. No problems with centering of the emitter, but I have noticed other reports here of difficulties in getting the dual o-rings to hold perfectly in place. If I can get my head open, I will explore this a bit further myself.

    Looking forward to hearing of your outdoor experiences with it.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Latest hobby: whiskyanalysis.com. Latest flashlight review: Thrunite TN42.
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  6. #6
    Flashaholic* csshih's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    3,919

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    finally! I've been waiting for a more technical and more pictorial review of the legion II.. thanks!

  7. #7
    Flashaholic* Morelite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Central PA
    Posts
    2,238

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Quote Originally Posted by jahxman View Post

    I received my Legion II Standard Edition today; I ordered it July 31st.
    lucky you and good news, my order was placed the same day. I guess mine should be here anyday now.
    Last edited by Morelite; 09-29-2009 at 06:01 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Great review, thanks Selfbuilt. One question, how does it handle the heat generated by the MC-E on the high level? Does the head get uncomfortably warm?

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* Vesper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Puget Sound, WA
    Posts
    795

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Dang it Selfbuilt. Did you have to go and call it a lightsaber? I was on the fence over this light and now I think I HAVE to buy it.

    Thanks a bunch for your time on this. Great balanced review - I've been keeping an eye out for more impressions of the Legion II. Thx jahxman also for your review - let us know how your night experience is w/ it.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Quote Originally Posted by RocketTomato View Post
    Great review, thanks Selfbuilt. One question, how does it handle the heat generated by the MC-E on the high level? Does the head get uncomfortably warm?
    It gets warm certainly, but I can't say I've noticed anything more than my other quad-die emitter lights. Of course, I haven't actually tested it with a thermal probe or anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vesper View Post
    Dang it Selfbuilt. Did you have to go and call it a lightsaber?
    Luke ... *I* am your father ...

    Sadly, it doesn't actually produce a lightsaber beam ... the handle just looks like one.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Latest hobby: whiskyanalysis.com. Latest flashlight review: Thrunite TN42.
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  11. #11
    Flashaholic jahxman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Doylestown, PA
    Posts
    385

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Quote Originally Posted by selfbuilt View Post
    Looking forward to hearing of your outdoor experiences with it.
    Well, I just got back from a nice night walk in some recently cut cornfields nearby with my dog.

    I took 3 lights with me:

    1. Legion II
    2. Mac custom 1D mag with an SST-50 driven at 3.2A from a IMR 26650 and stock SMO reflector
    3. ROP Hi with FM deep VLOP reflector running on 6 high-discharge NiMH

    I would have taken more lights but this was about all I could carry without using a backpack (and was also the lights I had in my car )

    I have to say I really enjoyed the beam of the Legion II. Certainly the ROP and the Mac SST had a bit more throw - but when I would light up a tree line at 75 to 100 yards away, the narrow spill beam of the Legion II would illuminate from edge to edge almost, while the somewhat more intense hotspots of the other two powerful lights would dominate at that distance and their wider spills were barely seen.

    At one point when I had let my dog off leash and lost track of her for a bit (she's a black greyhound), I found this wider area of useful illumination quite helpful in locating her again - the search pattern with the beam is easier, because each pass covers more of the field. (of course I could have just called her back instantly, but after all I was testing lights ) I actually looked for her with the ROP for a minute before I found her with the Legion II.

    So Selfbuilt's description of the beam and spill is quite right - it is overall narrower than many other big lights, but that tends to concentrate the light into that narrower angle, making the spill more useful even at distances usually only illuminated by the hotspot. The hotspot itself is also not too tightly concentrated, and blends gradually into the spill. There is a noticable donut hole in my Legion II's beam, but in outdoor use you really have to look for it to see it. I'm also thinking I may be able to reduce it to nothing by adjusting the position of the reflector, some tinkering I've done so far indicates this may be possible.

    I will make an attempt in the next couple nights to photograph what I am seeing, I have a camera that will let me set things manually, I just have never done this particular kind of photography before. I hope to compare the beam with some other MC-E and P7 lights that I have.
    Last edited by jahxman; 09-30-2009 at 05:33 PM.
    Seeing the small is called Clarity. Keeping flexible is called Strength. Using the shining Radiance, You enter the Light, Where no harm can come to you. This is called Enlightenment. - Lao Tzu

  12. #12
    Flashaholic jahxman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Doylestown, PA
    Posts
    385

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    A quick update on outdoor testing - tonight I took the Legion II with me for another dog walk in the cornfields.

    This time I brought:

    1. Legion II
    2. Mag85 w/ FM VLOP reflector, 9 high discharge NiMH
    3. Fenix TK40
    4. Jetbeam M1X

    I found I still really enjoyed the performance of the Legion II beam, for illuiminating objects up to about 100 yards out. I also am partial to the TK40 beam at these distances, but the TK40 beam is also useful at greater distances.

    Tonight there was a large group of deer about 200 yards away, and at one point a fox crossed the field about 150 yards away from me.

    I found the best lights for illuminating these wild animals at these distances were the Jetbeam M1X and the Mag85. The TK40 also performed respectably here, allowing me to make out the shapes of the animal's bodies, where the M1X and the Mag85 allowed me to actually see some detail of them.

    The Legion II at this distance mainly just showed their eye flash; the hotspot was too dissipated at this distance to give me much more than that. It was still very good for distances up to about 100 yards though.

    I was kicking myself for not bringing my DBS V3 w/aspheric, it would have been interesting to see how it looked for this purpose.
    Seeing the small is called Clarity. Keeping flexible is called Strength. Using the shining Radiance, You enter the Light, Where no harm can come to you. This is called Enlightenment. - Lao Tzu

  13. #13

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Quote Originally Posted by jahxman View Post
    A quick update on outdoor testing - tonight I took the Legion II with me for another dog walk in the cornfields.
    Wow, nice collection of lights!

    Your experiences match what I would have guessed for the various contenders - thanks for the detailed first-hand experiences (with estimated distances).
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Latest hobby: whiskyanalysis.com. Latest flashlight review: Thrunite TN42.
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  14. #14
    Flashaholic* berry580's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    1,136

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Based on this graph:
    http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...II-Hi18650.gif

    At max output, it looks like the M1X actually has better output/runtime efficiency than the Legion II when we account for the number of batteries used.
    Maglite 4D Incad., Solitaire, 3D LED Jetbeam Jet-I MKII R, Jet-III PRO Ti, Jet-Ti M, TC-R3 ,TC-10 Fenix LD01 SS Surefire C2 4Sevens Quark AA Ti, Quark Mini AA, Preon 0

  15. #15

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Quote Originally Posted by berry580 View Post
    Based on this graph:
    At max output, it looks like the M1X actually has better output/runtime efficiency than the Legion II when we account for the number of batteries used.
    Actually, in that graph the M1X and Legion II have roughly equivalent efficiency at Max output (which happen to be driven to about the same output level). That is, the runtime of the Legion II is ~50% longer than the M1X - which is what you would expect for equally efficient lights run on 3 cells vs 2 cells (i.e. 50% more capacity).

    This really isn't all that surprising - there usually aren't big differences between between maximally-driven lights with equivalent output (and emitters). But If you look at the "Med" or "Lo" comparison graphs, you'll see the Legion II produces nearly twice as much light as the M1X, despite only have one extra battery.

    Of course, it's hard to compare 3-cell vs 2-cell lights, since the drain conditions at lower outputs would be different on the individual cells. Also, keep in my mind that my lightbox is only a crude estimate of output - different throw/spill patterns affect the results. And ultimately, you can't compare different outputs too easily (i.e. lights become more efficient at lower drive currents, up to a point).
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Latest hobby: whiskyanalysis.com. Latest flashlight review: Thrunite TN42.
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  16. #16
    Flashaholic* Crenshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    4,305

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Finally, He gets it absolutley right. Thanks for the review sb, now if ONLY neo can get back on track for the spartanian...ill be a happy customer again

    Crenshaw

  17. #17
    Flashaholic
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    eLk GrOvE, california
    Posts
    292

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    this makes me salivating with "order this light now" unfortunately, it'll have to wait, cause a new little one is coming to the world soon so this toy(tool) has got to wait....
    Darkness is the lack of light.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Quote Originally Posted by VF1Jskull1 View Post
    this makes me salivating with "order this light now" unfortunately, it'll have to wait, cause a new little one is coming to the world soon so this toy(tool) has got to wait....
    Really Great!
    I can keep the light to the day your baby want a light him/herself.
    I am... Flashlight designer, photographer, column writer...
    Check my works in CPFMP!

  19. #19
    *Flashaholic* Patriot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    10,288

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Nice review, as is always the case with you Selfbuilt!

    Neo, I applaud your bringing a high quality light like this to the market at a very reasonable price. The light is always impressive on the performance side and actually costs lest than a few factory name lights in this class.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriot View Post
    Nice review, as is always the case with you Selfbuilt!

    Neo, I applaud your bringing a high quality light like this to the market at a very reasonable price. The light is always impressive on the performance side and actually costs lest than a few factory name lights in this class.
    Thank you man. I will keep going.
    I am... Flashlight designer, photographer, column writer...
    Check my works in CPFMP!

  21. #21

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    I've had my L2 (standard version) for about three months, and I'm amazed at the runtime of this light - incredible. The L2 is simply a fun light to own. It feels like a high-quality, custom, balanced light in hand. The UI is easy to access and customize, the anodizing is perfect on my light, the beam profile is flawless, and the output is truly awesome.

    ...and He separated the light from darkness. Check out my lights.

  22. #22
    Flashaholic* berry580's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    1,136

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Hey, i just realised in this ad, it says the Neofab Legion II has a maximum of 742 touch lumens, but apparently Jetbeam M1X's ~450 torch lumens is actually placed higher according to Selfbuilt's light box, why is that?

    I understand that a lightbox is probably not totally correct, but i believe it is highly unlikely to be not able to pick up the difference between 450lumens and 742lumens. (yes, i have played with my own light boxes before). A light box is a light box, it probably won't mix up the higher output for the lower output light.

    Is the Legion II over rate of the M1X under rated?

    This take me to the M2XC4 Cool, it is rated to be 800 lumens (i assume its emitter lumens), rule of thumb is 60% of the emitter lumens is torch lumens leaving it about 500 torch lumens. Now this is consistent with Selfbuilt's light box. (M2XC4 has higher output than M1X and Legion II)

    This leads me to believe that the "Neofab don't lie" ad is questionable.

    What's the deal here, have i miscalculated something?

    cheers.
    Last edited by berry580; 10-23-2009 at 02:05 AM.
    Maglite 4D Incad., Solitaire, 3D LED Jetbeam Jet-I MKII R, Jet-III PRO Ti, Jet-Ti M, TC-R3 ,TC-10 Fenix LD01 SS Surefire C2 4Sevens Quark AA Ti, Quark Mini AA, Preon 0

  23. #23

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    In my opinion. The output current is the only way we can compare for lights with the same LED. If you find the output current of Light Alpha is 2.4A, and Light Beta is 2.8A, you can tell yourself: Beta should be brighter than Alpha.

    Quote Originally Posted by berry580 View Post
    Hey, i just realised in this ad, it says the Neofab Legion II has a maximum of 742 touch lumens, but apparently Jetbeam M1X's ~450 torch lumens is actually placed higher according to Selfbuilt's light box, why is that?

    I understand that a lightbox is probably not totally correct, but i believe it is highly unlikely to be not able to pick up the difference between 450lumens and 742lumens. (yes, i have played with my own light boxes before). A light box is a light box, it probably won't mix up the higher output for the lower output light.

    Is the Legion II over rate of the M1X under rated?

    This take me to the M2XC4 Cool, it is rated to be 800 lumens (i assume its emitter lumens), rule of thumb is 60% of the emitter lumens is torch lumens leaving it about 500 torch lumens. Now this is consistent with Selfbuilt's light box. (M2XC4 has higher output than M1X and Legion II)

    This leads me to believe that the "Neofab don't lie" ad is questionable.

    What's the deal here, have i miscalculated something?

    cheers.
    I am... Flashlight designer, photographer, column writer...
    Check my works in CPFMP!

  24. #24
    HKJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    8,616

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Quote Originally Posted by neoseikan View Post
    In my opinion. The output current is the only way we can compare for lights with the same LED. If you find the output current of Light Alpha is 2.4A, and Light Beta is 2.8A, you can tell yourself: Beta should be brighter than Alpha.
    You can tell yourself that, but it might not be correct. The reflector and the glass will affect the light output and 16% is definitely a possible difference between a good and bad optical system.
    It is also important to remember that "same led" must include bin, not just led type.
    My website with battery and charger information: lygte-info.
    More than 1000 reviews of batteries, charges and other stuff.
    Compare 18650 LiIon batteries or smaller (RCR123, 16340, 14500, 10450) LiIon batteries.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Quote Originally Posted by berry580 View Post
    I understand that a lightbox is probably not totally correct, but i believe it is highly unlikely to be not able to pick up the difference between 450lumens and 742lumens. (yes, i have played with my own light boxes before). A light box is a light box, it probably won't mix up the higher output for the lower output light. Is the Legion II over rate of the M1X under rated? This take me to the M2XC4 Cool, it is rated to be 800 lumens (i assume its emitter lumens) ...
    It's a good point you've raised. In this case, I think my lightbox is indeed underestimating the Legion II somewhat, compared to the M1X. The spill patterns of these lights are very different, and I've noticed before that my lightbox tends to report slightly lower values for lights with narrower spill, when driven to equivalent levels.

    Personally, I have a higher degree of confidence in the ceiling bounce numbers for relative overall output in these multi-emitter lights. There you will see the Legion II has a slight initial edge on the M1X - but again, spill patterns could be affecting the results somewhat. About the only thing I would say with any certainty is that the EagleTac offerings seem to be slightly brighter than most of the competition.

    But the difference is not really large enough to be all that noticeable in real life. As always, I recommend people just go with whatever combination of features, UI, beam pattern and ergonomics that they prefer.

    Quote Originally Posted by HKJ View Post
    It is also important to remember that "same led" must include bin, not just led type.
    Yes indeed, an excellent point. And given the range over which LEDs are binned, even identical bins can show significant variability. All the more reason to take the relative output results for my n=1 representative samples with a big grain of salt.
    Last edited by selfbuilt; 10-23-2009 at 07:03 AM.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Latest hobby: whiskyanalysis.com. Latest flashlight review: Thrunite TN42.
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  26. #26
    Unenlightened
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    I've compared this light to others for almost a year now, but I get shivers down my spine when I hear about people getting ones with misaligned emitters, etc. It'd be great if there was one middleman that would but lights like these, and sell them for a little more but they would be checked out for problems. I don't know, $180 is alot to risk...

    But the Legion II is next on my list!!

    -Captain Dave

  27. #27
    Unenlightened
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Yonkers, NY
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Hi There,
    I just wanted to let you know that I have had mine about a month now and like it more every time I use it. The emitter in spot on center. I found 2 small defects in the HA, but very minor flaws.
    As constructive criticism I would like to add, IMHO the body could use some knurling to improve grip when wet. That is the only gripe I have. I would gladly do it over again. Very well built and powerful.
    Lee

  28. #28
    Unenlightened
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Yonkers, NY
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    I just thought of one more thing There are no polarity markings on the battery tubes, so I used my label maker to make stickers with a "+" and a "-" on them and stuck them inside the tubes. Because of the relative thinness of the mylar, it doesn't have any effect on the 18650's sliding in or out.
    Last edited by leefraczek; 10-27-2009 at 08:40 AM.

  29. #29
    Flashaholic Tomcat!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    408

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    I received my Legion about four and a half hours ago. I didn't know it was coming as Neo's order status website hadn't changed status since I ordered it. I saw an unmarked white van skid and slide up to my front door, and a guy appeared with the mysterious parcel. (Sounds dramatic but the skid and slide was due to the whole area being frozen solid with sheet ice.)

    When I opened the well protected package, I was amazed at how good looking the L2 is. Yes we've all seen the pictures but that's not like having it in your hand. It's a work of art. I particularly like not having any manufacturers marks or logos. Adds to the exotic look. I scrambled around to find three 18650s of the same type and excitedly set them to charge - then waited... and waited. Apparently batteries charge slower if you keep staring at them!

    Unfortunately for me, I can't take my new toy outside because I'm sick as a dog at the moment (flu), and there's no way I'm going into the heavy snowfall we're having right now, so I'm going to have to make do with these initial impressions.

    Eventually the L2 was fully armed and ready to rock. I read Selfbuilt's review again while waiting so I didn't have any problems loading, switching on and changing levels. At first I thought the control ring might be too loose, in that you might accidentally change modes while handling it, but that wasn't so. I agree with everyone about the battery polarity markings, but I took care and didn't experience a problem. I doubt it would be that straight forward in the dark, although what self-respecting flashy would ever be in total darkness, right? Besides, I got used to the peculiarities of loading a Gladius, I can get used to this.

    General fit and finish have been covered by others, and my L2 looks great. Nothing wrong with the HA. There is dust in the reflector, but I have confirmed that the bezel will twist off so I'll clean it later. The tail cap metal does look pretty thin and I wonder how well it would stand up to a knock. I'm not about to spoil this beauty by trying, but I'd be interested to know if Neo would sell replacement bezels and tails if needed. The 45mm wide tailcap allows for nice stable tail standing. I could confidently plonk it down on a flat surface, even on a bar towel, and not have to look back to see if was going to tip. Works very well as a room lighter.

    The grip of the L2 as demonstrated by Selfbuilt is good. The torch feels substantial and purposeful. I could operate the control ring perfectly well with my thumb, or thumb and forefinger. After studying the picture, I think my hands are the same size as Selfbuilt's and would agree that tiny hands might be an issue. The body is quite smooth, which is fine in your bare hand but what about gloves? As it's freezing cold and snowing here I thought the subject particularly relevant to me since I'd be outdoors now, if I wasn't dying of plague! So, I put on a cheap ski glove which has a nylon outer shell and a sewn on rubberised lightly textured grip area on the palm. The fingers were well padded and thus fat, and not so easy to bend. I could operate the L2 but with more effort required than bare handed. Thumb and forefinger were best. However, in such a glove, the light is slippery and nearly fell out of my hand several times. No problem since I was doing this in a controlled area but I wouldn't feel safe about the outdoors. It does need a place to put a lanyard. I also tried my EDC gloves, Thinsulate fleece type. The grip was better than the ski glove and operation a bit easier due to thinner material, but I'd still feel better with a wrist strap.

    Deciding on the best way to carry an L2 is going to have to wait until I can get out. I could see this fitting nicely into any of the rucksacks I normally carry. I think the best placement would be on the outside, within easy reach, so some Molle compatible pouch to go on my Maxped Vulture II would be ideal. I'm not sure about belt carry though. On an ordinary trouser belt it might be heavy, but on something worn outside your coat, like a 50mm Raines duty belt I don't see a problem. Anyone bought a pouch for theirs yet, or how else do you carry it?

    Although I've only had this light a few hours, I'm really impressed with the build quality and design. I really like the battery check feature too. When I originally placed the order, the UK pound still had some value so the price wasn't bad for me, especially compared to the SF's I had bought around the same time from a UK dealer. So far I'm very pleased that I bought the Legion II.
    Gladius; SF E1e+Veleno 2x E2e+Veleno, G3+9vLED, G2L, 9P+FM34+Z49/HO9/EO9; Fenix L2T, P1DCE, P2DCE, P3DCE, L2DCE, P2D R100, P3D R100, T1 SMO; HDS Rotary; Mini-Mag AA+TLux 5W,Mag 2D+TLux 5W, 6D; LegionII MCE; Nitecore Extrm; Novatac 120P; Solaforce L2+Thurnite XM-L; Zebralight H30-Q5&H60

  30. #30

    Default Re: Neofab Legion II Standard Edition Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

    Does anyone know if this is a viable vendor? I am very much interested in a L2 with SST50 but not sure of the price and availability. With the issues SST manufacturer is this even still a possibility. I dont mind waiting but would like to know there is a light at the ened of the rainbow. Thoughts of others appreciated.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •