Not very impressed with my new LF EO-E2R....

I ordered it about 2 weeks ago along with a new HO-M3 bulb for my SF M3-CB.

It finally arrived yesterday and i put it into my SF E2D, put in a fresh set of CR-123's, clicked it on and to say I was unimpressed would be an understatement. To my eye, it wasnt any brighter or warmer that the SF 65 Lumen bulb. There was no gain at all IMO :tired:

I figured "ok, lets try them with my RCR's". I grabbed a fresh set of 3.6v ultrafire's, popped them in the tube and after attempting to screw down the head, realized that my RCR's were longer than the CR's and thus I wont be able to use them in my E2D :ironic:

So my questions are this:

1) Was I setting my expectations too high with the EO-E2R?

and

2) Are there any RCR's out there(preferably DX) that will fit in my E2D?


As an aside, The HO-M3 was a marked improvement over the 225 lumen SF bulb IN MY M3-CB and I am very impressed with its performance.

You are using a lamp made for a nominal voltage of 7.2 Volts on a nominal voltage of 6 Volts.
So your Lumens Factory EO-E2R lamp assembly is OK, but your use of it is not.
And most protected RCR123 cells are longer than primary CR123 cells, you should get non-protected RCR123 cells, they will fit.

labrat said:

You are using a lamp made for a nominal voltage of 7.2 Volts on a nominal voltage of 6 Volts.
So your Lumens Factory EO-E2R lamp assembly is OK, but your use of it is not.
And most protected RCR123 cells are longer than primary CR123 cells, you should get non-protected RCR123 cells, they will fit.

Click to expand...

The EO-E2R isn't meant for use with CR123A primary (ie non rechargable) batteries. Its only meant for use with IMR16340s or RCR123A cells. I personally recommend the cells made by AW, sold in the MarketPlace. I own three E2 lights, and AW's cells fit in all three with the EO-E2R, which isn't meant to be tremendously brighter than the stock MN03 lamp. The real advantage is rechargeable. The E2 is my favorite light, due to its size. Now with rechargeable, I can use it without feeling guilty about wasting batteries.
Also, I wouldn't recommend the use of unprotected batteries, unless they are of the IMR type chemistry. AW sells some of the best cells, and you should find that they all fit and work nicely with the EO-E2R, which is a wonderful lamp.

buickid said:

The EO-E2R isn't meant for use with CR123A primary (ie non rechargable) batteries. Its only meant for use with IMR16340s or RCR123A cells. I personally recommend the cells made by AW, sold in the MarketPlace. I own three E2 lights, and AW's cells fit in all three with the EO-E2R, which isn't meant to be tremendously brighter than the stock MN03 lamp. The real advantage is rechargeable. The E2 is my favorite light, due to its size. Now with rechargeable, I can use it without feeling guilty about wasting batteries.
Also, I wouldn't recommend the use of unprotected batteries, unless they are of the IMR type chemistry. AW sells some of the best cells, and you should find that they all fit and work nicely with the EO-E2R, which is a wonderful lamp.

Click to expand...

So then AW protected RCR123's will in fact fit into the E2D tube? Are they generally rated as good batteries? Ive got a couple of SF lights that they could potentially wind up in (G2/6P/M3 etc.

And im assuming that they are only available from the CPF marketplace?

Adirondack47 said:

I ordered it about 2 weeks ago along with a new HO-M3 bulb for my SF M3-CB.

It finally arrived yesterday and i put it into my SF E2D, put in a fresh set of CR-123's, clicked it on and to say I was unimpressed would be an understatement. To my eye, it wasnt any brighter or warmer that the SF 65 Lumen bulb. There was no gain at all IMO :tired:

I figured "ok, lets try them with my RCR's". I grabbed a fresh set of 3.6v ultrafire's, popped them in the tube and after attempting to screw down the head, realized that my RCR's were longer than the CR's and thus I wont be able to use them in my E2D :ironic:

So my questions are this:

1) Was I setting my expectations too high with the EO-E2R?

and

2) Are there any RCR's out there(preferably DX) that will fit in my E2D?


As an aside, The HO-M3 was a marked improvement over the 225 lumen SF bulb IN MY M3-CB and I am very impressed with its performance.

Click to expand...

Wrong fuel bro. You need the very best pair of 16340s to power that sucker.

You filled a Dragster's tank with water.

Adirondack47 said:

So then AW protected RCR123's will in fact fit into the E2D tube? Are they generally rated as good batteries? Ive got a couple of SF lights that they could potentially wind up in (G2/6P/M3 etc.

And im assuming that they are only available from the CPF marketplace?

Click to expand...

I just answered every single question you just asked.
I said I have three E2 series lights using AW cells just fine WITH EO-E2R lamps. And I recommended AW's cells because they're just about the best. And I also said they're available in CPF marketplace They are also available on other sites, 4Sevens and Lighthound come to mind. 4Sevens doesn't carry IMR cells.

But you can buy them straight from AW himself in the Marketplace for very fair prices. Unless you need them right away or are placing an order from one of the other stores, I'd just get them from AW. He makes them, so its logical that he has the freshest cells.

He is a newbie, so he is probably confused.

buickid said:

I just answered every single question you just asked.
I said I have three E2 series lights using AW cells just fine WITH EO-E2R lamps. And I recommended AW's cells because they're just about the best. And I also said they're available in CPF marketplace They are also available on other sites, 4Sevens and Lighthound come to mind. 4Sevens doesn't carry IMR cells.

But you can buy them straight from AW himself in the Marketplace for very fair prices. Unless you need them right away or are placing an order from one of the other stores, I'd just get them from AW. He makes them, so its logical that he has the freshest cells.

Click to expand...

Yes & Yes...just buy AW batteries. http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=200812

Adirondack47 said:

So then AW protected RCR123's will in fact fit into the E2D tube? Are they generally rated as good batteries? Ive got a couple of SF lights that they could potentially wind up in (G2/6P/M3 etc.

And im assuming that they are only available from the CPF marketplace?

Click to expand...

Adirondack47

The reason your Ultafires won't fit and AWs will is because these 3.6V Ultrafire cells are known to be slightly longer than other RCR123s. Note the fine print: "these cells are also about 1mm longer than is standard so if you're using 2 in series you need to be aware that they'll be 2mm longer in total".

The AW brand of Li-Ion cells is, without a doubt, the best brand to get; and they cost hardly any more than the other lesser brands.

As you may be unfamiliar with buying thru the Marketplace, an easier option would be to buy them from Lighthound. You can get the AW RCR123s here, and the AW IMR123s here. You can use this Ultrafire charger if you don't already have one. AW IMR123s are not any shorter than AW RCR123s, so I advise you to use the RCRs due to their higher capacity; you'll get 33% more runtime and don't have to worry about running the IMRs down too low and ruining them. The IMRs are a better choice for high amperage draw lights, but your EO-E2R at .85 amps doesn't need them.

Adirondack47 said:

So then AW protected RCR123's will in fact fit into the E2D tube? Are they generally rated as good batteries? Ive got a couple of SF lights that they could potentially wind up in (G2/6P/M3 etc.

And im assuming that they are only available from the CPF marketplace?

Click to expand...

Order two of AW's IMR16340 cells and a charger, problem solved. Some of the RCR cells are too wide for some of the E-series bodies, because the protection circuit.

The IMR cells do not have this problem. And they are safer to use. I prefer them over the RCR cells anytime.

The EO-E2R is nearly twice as bright as the MN03, you should see a huge difference. It should light the room up nearly as bright as a Surefire P90.

Traffic light cameras increase safety as well.
I love that we can all live in a safer world at the expense of everything else.

Howecollc said:

Traffic light cameras increase safety as well.
I love that we can all live in a safer world at the expense of everything else.

Click to expand...

It took me a couple of reads to realize you were replying to me. I'm with you all the way in your political philosophy, but..

Apples and oranges my friend.

RCR123s are safer than the CR123s he's using right now.
Though, I willl agree with you on the possibility of a fit issue in his E2D.

RCR123s, however, fit fine in my 2 E2DLs.

Howecollc said:

Traffic light cameras increase safety as well.
I love that we can all live in a safer world at the expense of everything else.

Click to expand...

For someone new to rechargeable lithium technology, it might be wise to stick with IMR. If they do make some sort of mistake, eg. run the battery down repeatedly, stick it in the charger backwards, short it etc., the chances of it going and burning their house down is quite a bit less. Yes, the capacity is lower by 200mAh (for 16340s), but it is safer. Yes there is a protection circuit, but IMR is inherently safe. No protection circuit to fail.

Volvo wagons are inherently safe as well , but nobody's racing them in Nascar.
I'm sorry, I just can't seem to quit.

Besides, he's already playing with RCRs anyway.

Howecollc said:

RCR123s are safer than the CR123s he's using right now.
Though, I willl agree with you on the possibility of a fit issue in his E2D.

RCR123s, however, fit fine in my 2 E2DLs.

Click to expand...

As you know, it's a crapgame with fitting protected lithium ion batteries in E-series Surefire lights. But the IMR cells always fit. And I think they are superior anyways. But that's just my opinion. You are quite lucky to fit RCR123s in any newer Surefire E-series lights. I had eight of them, and only two would fit in a couple of my newer E-series bodies about a year ago.

I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that RCR's are any safer than CR123s of quality manufacture. The RCR's tend to vent 1,000F flame when they go bad. CR123's tend to explode and create a poisonous fume and layer of ash. Which is safer?

I think the CR123a failure rate might be higher, but that also might be because of the lack of protection circuit, and the large amount of cheap "eBay" cells out there.

Both types of cells are very common, lithium ion in cell phones, laptops and such, with lithium primaries being more common in flashlights.

Howecollc said:

AW IMR123s are not any shorter than AW RCR123s, so I advise you to use the RCRs due to their higher capacity; you'll get 33% more runtime and don't have to worry about running the IMRs down too low and ruining them. The IMRs are a better choice for high amperage draw lights, but your EO-E2R at .85 amps doesn't need them.

Click to expand...

I'm not so certain that the AW RCR123's have any more actual capacity than the AW IMR16340 at the drain rate you cited (0.85 amps).

Looking at SilverFox's LiIon data:
(https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/117117)
AW RCR123's (label capacity = 750 ma-h) tested at:
0.602 a-h @ 0.5 amps
0.416 a-h @ 1.0 amps
A linear interpolation (yes I know, that won't be exact, but close enough for our purposes) of this data yields 0.472 a-h @ 0.85 amps
(although this data was from testing done a few years ago - it is possible that AW's RCR123's have a greater capacity now)

It has been reported on CPF that the a-h of the IMR cell should stay pretty close to the nominal value of ~500 mah under all but the heaviest of loads.

From mdocod himself:

mdocod said:

The capacity difference at ~0.8A load is not going to be much different between the black and red AW cells, both are going to be very close to 0.5AH

Click to expand...

More searching...

mudman cj said:

AW's black "high current" R123 cells rated for up to 1.5A have a measured capacity of 255mAh at a 1.5A rate from Silverfox's testing, while AW IMR 16340 cells have a measured capacity of 510mAh at a 1.5A rate.

Click to expand...

So it's looking like the a-h of the IMR16340 holds up extremely well under moderate loads and may have slightly more actual capacity than the RCR123's at the OP's drain rate, although they are very close. :shrug:

Kestrel: I was thinking about that, but I didn't know what the threshold for better performance on the ICR (RCR123) was. Good job on looking up the info

By the way, IMR cells are a tiny bit lighter than RCR's as well.

The problem with IMRs is that you never know when it's time to turn your light off and recharge it. They do not show any sign of dimming-- at least not with low to moderate loads.