Cars, Man

[LukeA]

I'm guessing your not a F1 fan either then.
As the mid 80's F1 cars were putting out anything up to 1300bhp in qualifying (engine grenade) form.
That was from 1.5 litres.

Race trim would be around 600bhp depending on the year, car, track etc.

It's actually more than 300bhp/L as well, as Will Gollops 6R4 was 2.3 Bi-turbo.
So if the rumours are to be believed and he was seeing 900bhp in grenade mode we're talking over 400bhp/L.

That's difficult to prove though as it's only really hearsay.
The is absolutely no doubt at all the were running at LEAST 700bhp in race configuration, that's still over 300bhp/L

Welcome to the wonderful world of forced induction my friend

F1 is one thing, with their 60+psi boost pressures and comically tiny V8 pistons (at the time), but hearsay is still bullshit.

[LukeA]

Absolutely and there's absolutely no doubt at all these were all laggy monsters.
We're talking 450bhp coming in over a 1000rpm band here.

Sort of makes what the "drivers" today are doing in F1 look a bit well gay really.
What with traction, stability control, ABS and a torque curve smoother than a babies bottom.

Imagine driving a 900bhp F1 car from the 80's in the rain on a circuit like Monaco with zero run off on most corners with 450bhp arriving lagged, delayed and within a 1000rpm band.
Not only did they need throttle control of epic proportions, they'd actually need to read the future and guess within cm's where the powerband would kick in on corner exit.

Those were the days

I am with you on this 100%. To see Prost or Senna work the pedals with that massive turbo lag is something that today's F1 can't come close to matching.

On a little different note, I am pretty sure that KERS and the new engines in 2013 will offer more passing than there is now, but I still don't think F1's passing then will be as satisfying as passing in a series like V8 Supercar is, where it's more driver-against-driver and less car-against-car (driver-adjustable aero, traction control, paddle-shifted automatics, KERS go-fast button, etc).

[kwak]

F1 is one thing, with their 60+psi boost pressures and comically tiny V8 pistons (at the time), but hearsay is still bullshit.

I agree, i only added the hearsay to put some context into the numbers.

Hearsay aside there is absolutely no doubt that the likes of Will Gollop, John Greasley etc were running 700bhp+ in race trim at those rallycross meets in the mid 80's.
As i say these were groupB cars that were taken, de-restricted then tuned (or in Gollops case turbo'd) to within a few miles of their lifes.

I am with you on this 100%. To see Prost or Senna work the pedals with that massive turbo lag is something that today's F1 can't come close to matching.

On a little different note, I am pretty sure that KERS and the new engines in 2013 will offer more passing than there is now, but I still don't think F1's passing then will be as satisfying as passing in a series like V8 Supercar is, where it's more driver-against-driver and less car-against-car (driver-adjustable aero, traction control, paddle-shifted automatics, KERS go-fast button, etc).

To be honest i keep watching the odd F1 race, as a Brit i feel i should be more interested than i am seeming as we've had 2 world champions recently.
I just can't seem to enjoy it though, the drivers seem to be all the same with their corporate BS attitude, the cars are ECU's on wheels and everything just seems fake with no real people.
Don't get me wrong i think there are some amazingly talented drivers in there, it's just all so sterile.

Did you here about that old git ecclestone wanting to spray the tracks with water to simulate rain
That roughly sums it up for me now, it's more simulation than stimulation.


Look back the say James Hunt, or in the 70's Jackie Stewart before then and you had real characters you could shout for, now they all seem the same.

So i've basically dropped F1 now, it's MotoGP, WSB, WRC, BTCC and rallycross for me now.
I'll watch anything with a motor, but they're the ones i record, or in the case of MotoGP (much to me Mrs annoyance) stay in for

[LukeA]

To be honest i keep watching the odd F1 race, as a Brit i feel i should be more interested than i am seeming as we've had 2 world champions recently.
I just can't seem to enjoy it though, the drivers seem to be all the same with their corporate BS attitude, the cars are ECU's on wheels and everything just seems fake with no real people.
Don't get me wrong i think there are some amazingly talented drivers in there, it's just all so sterile.

Did you here about that old git ecclestone wanting to spray the tracks with water to simulate rain
That roughly sums it up for me now, it's more simulation than stimulation

With the amount of telemetry data F1 cars produce, if they wanted to, they could eliminate drivers entirely and have autonomous cars.

I think an allegory of modern F1 is Yas Marina Circuit. Sure it's a great technical achievement, it's beautiful (despite having no plant life), but watching a race on it is like watching paint dry. There's no drama. A car can run off track for miles and come back without even losing a position, let alone crashing or getting stuck in a gravel pit. There's no dirt, no close calls, no real perception of speed or emotion. It's what's wrong with both the circuit and the series. They're both so optimized and perfect that they're ruined.

[kwak]

With the amount of telemetry data F1 cars produce, if they wanted to, they could eliminate drivers entirely and have autonomous cars.

I think an allegory of modern F1 is Yas Marina Circuit. Sure it's a great technical achievement, it's beautiful (despite having no plant life), but watching a race on it is like watching paint dry. There's no drama. A car can run off track for miles and come back without even losing a position, let alone crashing or getting stuck in a gravel pit. There's no dirt, no close calls, no real perception of speed or emotion. It's what's wrong with both the circuit and the series. They're both so optimized and perfect that they're ruined.

I know exactly what you mean.

The crazy thing is, you'd think with these "safe" tracks there would be more risks taken, especially when over taking, as if you run to wide the consequences are losing a few seconds a lap instead of crashing out the race.
Instead the races are even more boring than the old days, on tracks like the Nürburgring where a mistake was punished by a lengthy stay in hospital at best, death at worst.

As a racer of both motorbikes and cars i can appreciate the need for having a safe track.
End of the day though i 100% realise and accept the risks involved, be it riding on the Nürburgring, IOM TT etc, racing cars at Donington, or even rallying through the forests of Kielder, they're all deadly if i make a mistake at the wrong spot, but i still did them.
If i'm honest the danger even added to the thrills.

No one wants to go back to the loss of life we saw back years ago, but still there NEEDS to be some element of enjoyment and overtaking in F1.
Many folks say "just off traction control" problem is, with modern EMS electronics they're into absolutely every aspect of the car.
As the EMS controls the ignition and injection it'd be too easy to write a code that's hidden away in the depths of the software that controls wheelspin.

To do without traction control, you'd either need a sealed EMS supplied by the organisers (but then each team would need to tune for fuelling and timing advance, therefore rendering and seal useless) or just go back to carbs.

[LukeA]

I know exactly what you mean.

The crazy thing is, you'd think with these "safe" tracks there would be more risks taken, especially when over taking, as if you run to wide the consequences are losing a few seconds a lap instead of crashing out the race.
Instead the races are even more boring than the old days, on tracks like the Nürburgring where a mistake was punished by a lengthy stay in hospital at best, death at worst.

I will give Jensen Button some credit. He has the balls to pass on the outside sometimes.

As a racer of both motorbikes and cars i can appreciate the need for having a safe track.
End of the day though i 100% realise and accept the risks involved, be it riding on the Nürburgring, IOM TT etc, racing cars at Donington, or even rallying through the forests of Kielder, they're all deadly if i make a mistake at the wrong spot, but i still did them.
If i'm honest the danger even added to the thrills.

Thrill from danger or exploration is one of the defining and inexorable qualities that make us human. It's what first pushed us out of our warm, dry caves into the dark unknown. It's why if NASA announced tomorrow that they were fielding candidates for a mission to Mars with a 50% likelihood of survival, they'd still have educated, qualified people lined up out the door to sign up.

As applying to racing, Steve McQueen said it well in the film Le Mans: "When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting."

That said, rallying and (especially) IOM TT will remain dangerous for a very, very long time.

No one wants to go back to the loss of life we saw back years ago, but still there NEEDS to be some element of enjoyment and overtaking in F1.
Many folks say "just off traction control" problem is, with modern EMS electronics they're into absolutely every aspect of the car.
As the EMS controls the ignition and injection it'd be too easy to write a code that's hidden away in the depths of the software that controls wheelspin.

To do without traction control, you'd either need a sealed EMS supplied by the organisers (but then each team would need to tune for fuelling and timing advance, therefore rendering and seal useless) or just go back to carbs.

In all cars today, both road cars and race cars, we're pretty well stuck with electronic aids. They almost always make the cars more efficient and safe, and almost always make the cars less exciting in the process.

[orbital]

+

Right On! Some good racing discussion

Regarding 300hp/L in the eighties;
I was at Pikes Peak in 1989 with 2 other buddies,
we got there late and only able to hike up about 1/2 mile from the start line, still asphalt section.

The 'Unlimited' class including the Peugeot 405, was so unbelievably fast, it was truly startling..
easily 300hp/L {stratospheric turbo boost}

[LukeA]

Maybe Bernie E. reads this thread? Monaco was a race run the way races should be run, with passing, crashes, and wild strategies, despite Vettel winning again.

[don.gwapo]

Poor supercars!


Ferrari 458 Italia & Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera



Aston Martin V12 Vantage


Porsche 911 GT3 RS

These supercars have been flooded on a basement parking in a known tourist attraction.

Some sports & luxury cars has also been flooded not pictured here.

But the Mercedes-Benz G Wagen beside the Lamborghini sure is survive the flooding without a problem.

[alfa]

The yellow wheels are....orrible!

[StarHalo]

I read about that flood; what stands out to me most is the selection of cars - most supercar collections seem random and illogical, but whoever this guy is has excellent taste. It's just a shame he didn't put a bit more money into storage..

[Monocrom]

The yellow wheels are....orrible!

Indeed! For a second there, I thought that was a Dept. of Motor Vehicle boot on that car.

Also . . .

"On tonight's episode of Top Gear James May screws up like never before. Richard Hammond is trapped in a lime green Porsche. And I head to the Bar."

[StarHalo]

Yes or no? VWVortex.com, a VW enthusiast site, got sent an early copy of the new Beetle for tinkering, and the result is the world's first modded 2012 Beetle:

[Monocrom]

Yes.

But only because for some reason I can't explain, I looked at the pics and liked it immediately.

Problem is, a Beetle is a cute car mainly for young women who want something cute. This new one is a bit more aggressive. Aggressive & Cute go together about as well as peanut butter and motor oil. While I like the look, I doubt that many others will also.

Edit:

Oh! Anyone else recognize that front-end from a certain classic car? No hints from me.

Still not sure why I like the back-end though.

[kwak]

Yes or no? VWVortex.com, a VW enthusiast site, got sent an early copy of the new Beetle for tinkering, and the result is the world's first modded 2012 Beetle:

Absolutely no interest in what colour the wheels are, what's the power/weight specs?
FWD, RWD or 4x4?

[StarHalo]

what's the power/weight specs? FWD, RWD or 4x4?

It's a rebodied GTI; an intake and exhaust for a GTI were bolted directly to this copy.

Oh! Anyone else recognize that front-end from a certain classic car? No hints from me.

Still not sure why I like the back-end though.

When I squint, all I see is an early Impreza..

The back end looks like a cross between an Audi and a Porsche, which is essentially what it is. And it has haunches, something that's missing from the current Porsches..

[gswitter]

I actually like the wheels/stripes combo.

I might drive it.

[Lite_me]

I like it. It might be a stretch, but it reminds me of a Willys Coupe.

[IMG] [/IMG]

[kwak]

It's a rebodied GTI; an intake and exhaust for a GTI were bolted directly to this copy.

Too heavy and the wrong wheel drive then.

[vali]

FYI, 24h LeMans is running right now.

[LukeA]

FYI, 24h LeMans is running right now.

http://stream.speedtv.com/corvette

[stevep]

The in car live steaming is really cool. The Corvette seems really fast,until an LMP flies by.
Thanks for the link.

[LukeA]

The in car live steaming is really cool. The Corvette seems really fast,until an LMP flies by.
Thanks for the link.

I'm glad you like it!

The TV feed is active again as of an hour ago. It was blacked out from 3:30-8:00(EDT) because the coverage was on TV.

[LukeA]

Today's F1 race was definitely the best of the season, maybe one of the best regular season races in the series's history. The last five laps were perfect.

[Mjolnir]

The annual Ferrari Concorso held by the Ferrari club of America (new england division) is going to be this sunday, so I will try to post some pictures if I go (which I intend to) like I did a few years ago. Apparently there is going to be an original Ferrari 250 GTO present as well as 1 (possibly 2) 599 GTOs. The show this year is also going to be bigger than previously, and they are inviting all italian exotics, not just ferris, so there will probably be a fair number of lamborghinis as well.

[LukeA]

All I have to say about this is "sign me up."

[mossyoak]

Specs? It looks like and equinox and avalanche got together and tried to make a raptor.

All I have to say about this is "sign me up."

[LukeA]

Specs? It looks like and equinox and avalanche got together and tried to make a raptor.

It's a concept for the next world Colorado. The sheetmetal is almost certainly what the actual version will have. A 2.8L turbodiesel will be available under the hood. The plastic windows, dual winches, 6-point harnesses, racing buckets, massive knobby tires, plastic bed bars, in-bed spare tire, and light bar probably won't see the light of day. I don't know if there are plans to bring this truck to the U.S.

[Mjolnir]

In a way it sort of reminds me of the modified Toyota Hilux they used on Top Gear to travel to the North pole.

[orbital]

+

A few things that caught my eye today at the June Sprints..





^^ I met the guy w/ this 'flawless '67 Firebird, he's the original owner, it has the high compression strait-6 ,
..the pic doesn't do justice on how nice the car is.



^^ I still love the shape of the F355GTS



^^ New TRD version