Polarion Night Reaper (CSWL)

[Patriot]

If you turn it off and on again Will it then be back on full power?

I'm not sure if your question translated properly for Vee or not because I didn't quite understand his response. I'll get the light meter out later and try that though. I'm guessing that it will probably switch back on to 100% but the question is probably going to be, how long will it take before output is reduced again?

[one2tim]

Taken from the manual

"Inherent within the Night ReaperTM CSWL is a built-in thermal controller that automatically regulates the light down to 40-watts and 4,200 lumens after approximately 5 minutes of CONSTANT ON use. If the searchlight is turned off and then turned on again, it immediately reverts to the 50-watt, 5,200 lumen output and the time cycle begins again."

[one2tim]

Sorry but to me that function makes no sence at all. I could understand if it was a thermal controlled stepdown.
"Edit"
ok i get it..its ment to be used continously on the 40w level
but a simple switch from 50w to 40w would have been alot nicer

[Patriot]

Sorry but to me that function makes no sence at all. I could understand if it was a thermal controlled stepdown.
"Edit"
ok i get it..its ment to be used continously on the 40w level
but a simple switch from 50w to 40w would have been alot nicer

For the collector and enthusiast I would agree that a switch would be better. For the role the light was designed for and the people who would be using it, the function makes sense. Understand that the PH50 is no longer produced due to thermal concerns. Running my PH50 for 10-12 minutes at 70F in still air, leaves the head so hot that you can barely touch it. The NR is running closer to 56-57W at start-up and I don't see how it could maintain that output based on my experience with the PH50. I suppose that if a soldier forgot to switch to 40W, the NR could damage itself, so it's been designed to do it automatically.

[Joe_torch]

For the collector and enthusiast I would agree that a switch would be better. For the role the light was designed for and the people who would be using it, the function makes sense. Understand that the PH50 is no longer produced due to thermal concerns. Running my PH50 for 10-12 minutes at 70F in still air, leaves the head so hot that you can barely touch it. The NR is running closer to 56-57W at start-up and I don't see how it could maintain that output based on my experience with the PH50. I suppose that if a soldier forgot to switch to 40W, the NR could damage itself, so it's been designed to do it automatically.

+1.
This is what the NR designed for, a heavy duty weapon light.
Congratulation Paul & Vee! What a great purchase!
Judging soley from the beam shots, the NR outperform the PH50 by a significant margin. Do both model share the same reflector design?
Thanks!
Joe

[Patriot]

Thanks Joe!

Just to be clear, it wasn't a purchase. These lights were gifted to Vee and myself by Ken Good.

See post #76



Please pinch me.

[Joe_torch]

Thanks Joe!

Just to be clear, it wasn't a purchase. These lights were gifted to Vee and myself by Ken Good.

See post #76



Please pinch me.

Oh! May bad, I just missed some posts of this thread.
As the truly big fans of the Polarion, you & Vee of course have the privilege to graciously receive such a wonderful gift from Ken.
Does the NR share the same reflector design of the PH50?
Thanks!
Joe

[vee73]

Is similar. But seems to me that NR reflective shine more.
Christmas here was special, and it belongs Thank you Ken J. Good.

[Ken J. Good]

All,

This light is PRIMARILY designed to go on a weapon system and operated with remote switching a power.

Military requirements demand that we have MASTER ON/OFF.

Light Output:
In order to have operators get the maximum light output level on start up in a package this size for a reasonable length of time, we elected to go with a pre-determined step down time.

Why? In a combat environment you first priority is to locate and identify potential threats. Engage them if required. This should all take place in the time allotted at full power.

Using proper basic lighting principles you should be lighting intermittently then moving. We reasoned that the time available at full power is more than sufficient to accomplish the task. If for some reason the operator needed an extended activation, the Night Reaper will still emit at levels higher than what is currently being deployed, yet stays way below what we consider acceptable heat management. Remember the ambient temperature in the Middle East can quite hot.

IF the operator has to have the full power after the auto-step down initiates, all that is required is a quick double-click of the remote gunners switch.

We are not going to install a CONSTANT 50W power setting. What will happen is that folks will switch it to that setting and leave it there and effectively negate the required thermal management.

The light is SECONDARILY a handheld unit. Again, what is currently being deployed requires cables and large 5590 military battery be to toted along.
The switch cannot even be reached without using another hand.

Therefore from our perspective the switching and protocol currently in the Night Reaper makes sense.

I am always open to criticism and suggestions, but nothing said here so far is going to move me off the current setup based on what we know to date.

[Lips]

I am always open to criticism and suggestions, but nothing said here so far is going to move me off the current setup based on what we know to date.

Way gracious giving back to the community and two well deserving guys Patriot & Vee73

That's one of the largest recognition of members here to date and should be applauded IMHO, awesome...


I can only comment on the topic and surely not criticize an expert in his field. I would make a few points & questions like:

* Is the reduction in output heat or time triggered the reduction in output. After 5 minutes the light shift to and stay at 40 watts... Is that correct. No matter what the temp of the light is, say on a moving vehicle in the wind. The light will not revert back to or up-shift back to the original starting 50 watts. Given the design and mass of the CSWL 5 minutes seems a little short of what the light should be capable handling...

If it is the case perhaps a heat sensor would be better instead of time sensor if possible and give it a setting to give at least 15 minutes on high to clear targets. My PH 50 is not that hot after 5 minutes of run-time and the CSWL seems to have better mass and heat management features. I would also say that the 50 watt Xeray is also in the battlefield and the Xeray will run over 60 minutes continuously at a full 50 watts even though its a mostly ABS plastic light shell. Perhaps the larger ballast on the Xeray may help with heat management and the Polarion ballast is quite small. Also looking at the 75watt barnburner (certified 75 watts to the bulb) runs for almost an hour with no shutdown being in the same abs plastic case. Seems like you could stretch the time from 5 min to 15 or 25 and in moving air environments have the light revert back from 40 to 50 watts given these other mostly plastic lights are accomplishing the feet... Not saying its not a good setup now but perhaps it could be made more smart aggressive to match it's other advanced features... Some points to consider or already considered...




.

[one2tim]

yes thermal triggered stepdown would seem better

[Patriot]

Way gracious giving back to the community and two well deserving guys Patriot & Vee73

That's one of the largest recognition of members here to date and should be applauded IMHO, awesome...


I can only comment on the topic and surely not criticize an expert in his field. I would make a few points & questions like:

* Is the reduction in output heat or time triggered the reduction in output. After 5 minutes the light shift to and stay at 40 watts... Is that correct. No matter what the temp of the light is, say on a moving vehicle in the wind. The light will not revert back to or up-shift back to the original starting 50 watts. Given the design and mass of the CSWL 5 minutes seems a little short of what the light should be capable handling...

If it is the case perhaps a heat sensor would be better instead of time sensor if possible and give it a setting to give at least 15 minutes on high to clear targets. My PH 50 is not that hot after 5 minutes of run-time and the CSWL seems to have better mass and heat management features. I would also say that the 50 watt Xeray is also in the battlefield and the Xeray will run over 60 minutes continuously at a full 50 watts even though its a mostly ABS plastic light shell. Perhaps the larger ballast on the Xeray may help with heat management and the Polarion ballast is quite small. Also looking at the 75watt barnburner (certified 75 watts to the bulb) runs for almost an hour with no shutdown being in the same abs plastic case. Seems like you could stretch the time from 5 min to 15 or 25 and in moving air environments have the light revert back from 40 to 50 watts given these other mostly plastic lights are accomplishing the feet... Not saying its not a good setup now but perhaps it could be made more smart aggressive to match it's other advanced features... Some points to consider or already considered...
.

Thank you Vic! As far as I know this is the largest gift handed down to CPF members from an light related manufacturer. It's truly extraordinary. I'd use the clapping emoticon if I wasn't so humbled.

First, I agree that thermally triggered shut down would be superior as long as it couldn't fail.

Yes Vic, the light does shut reduce output at 5 minutes. So, it's time triggered.

Based out the output figures, the NR is actually somewhere around 55-56W actual output during the first 5 minutes. So it's going to heat up quicker that our PH50's, perhaps not on the outside of the body, but the reflector and internals will. If Ken had chosen to start the light at 50W instead of 55W, the elapsed time before output step down could probably be delayed for 10-15 minutes but because of that extra performance right from the start (during the time window that the light will typically be operated) it has to step down sooner.

As for the Xeray, yes it's plastic, but it's a larger light. The little Polarion only has a 3.5" and it's my understanding than the one or two PH50's that had problems have melted the insulation or sealant material behind the reflector. I'm going from ancient memory now so don't hold me to this. In any case, we know that the PH50 can get too hot and I suspect that if the NR ran at 55W for any period of time in the Iraqi desert, it could be subject to the same thermal failure.

Again, a thermally managed smart circuit would completely take care of these perceived "problems." You guys are right that Vee at -25C isn't going to have the same kinds of thermal issues as Patriot will have in Arizona at 115F. I guess the other possibility would be to eliminate or improve the most thermally sensitive pieces in the NR in order to handle a 55W boost and 50W continuous run thereafter. I still thing the 55W boost is pretty darn neat. I think it's evident from the responses to beam shots and Vee's charts that you guys mostly though it was pretty cool as well.

Ken's working on the Night Reaper "II" so perhaps these things are being considered. Time will tell.

[HKJ]

If it is the case perhaps a heat sensor would be better instead of time sensor if possible and give it a setting to give at least 15 minutes on high to clear targets.

The advantage of a timer is that it is always possible to trigger a period of full brightness. With a heat sensor the light might easily get to hot and not be able to provide full brightness when needed.

For non tactical use a heat sensor together with a high/low switch would probably be better.

[vee73]

I've always believed that the 40W is enough power in most cases, at least for me.
I use mostly PH/PF40.
But sometimes the extra power is needed. NR is just that.

We must also keep in mind what is really designed for the lamp. There are situations that the air temperature is very high. If you still use the IR filter, heat develops an incredible amount. And the real situation can not afford to overheating.

This automatic power drop is good. But perhaps someone might want to pass the time in one direction or another. For example, 1-10 minutes. Lamp inside could possibly be achieved by turning the screw which could be affected to some degree.
I do not know whether this is technically wise? But the idea.

The only thing that I own I want to change the lamp is switch.
Not the master switch, but the other one. And I mean just me.

I do not light the lamp wires, and probably will be.
Here indeed is the winter of constant darkness and temperature,
often -25C is then to be forced to use very thick gloves. If the situation comes that I need the extra power, it does not work gloves.
And the animals in the forest with no time to take gloves off. I do not want to freeze.
The best solution (for me) to be printed in just a button or lever which could take extra power for easy pressing.
Likely that such a need does not have the army?

So I need to find a solution. I think that it is simple, if I find just the right
kind of switch.
It is amazing that I'm among them two who gave Ken NR.

[vee73]

I found a solution to my switch problem.
Carefully I opened the door and noticed that the clutch of seats is very easy to change. And does not need to make any electrical connections.
Now, still should be able to handle. It also gives some protection switches which are now outside.
Full power may now be easily turned on the big gloves on.
I will need to intensify the original hole in the clutch concise.
This is indeed a great lamp!

[Parker VH]

Vee, Nice mod, looks great.

[Lips]

.


Just got back 2 older Polarion PH-40 battery packs rebuilt with 2600mah Sanyo batteries. Testing them out on a PH-40 I noticed that the area which is heavily finned ( where the ballast rest ) barely gets warm after long run-times. The head of the PH-40 is too hot to hold. I'm guessing that the heat concerns with the PH-50 and CSWL are more with the reflector/bulb (area) overheating than the ballast overheating. The ballast area doesn't seem to get much of the heat...

Note for rebuilt packs: The LED's on the battery system only showed 1 led no mater how much they were charged. I ran the batteries to zero (cut-off) and the LED system started back working as normal... Nice!


Cheers


.

[Patriot]

Note for rebuilt packs: The LED's on the battery system only showed 1 led no mater how much they were charged. I ran the batteries to zero (cut-off) and the LED system started back working as normal... Nice!

I sold a PH40 and the buyer said this was happening when the light arrived to him. That pack always ran for over an hour when it was in my possession. Assuming there was a problem with the pack, and at his request, I split the price of a new battery pack with him. Guess he really didn't need one. Oh well, that's good to know Lips. Also, thank you for your observations about the ballast temp.





Vesa, I thought that I already complimented you about your switch mod. Apparently I somehow forgot to. Anyhow, nice work my friend. You solved the glove problem. Thank you for the detailed pictures.

Vesa, ajattelin, että olen jo onnitella teiltä vaihtaa mod. Ilmeisesti olen jotenkin unohdin. Oli miten oli, mukava työ ystäväni. Voit ratkaista käsine ongelma. Kiitos yksityiskohtaisia kuvia.

[vee73]

Here are a few images
Distance 60meter













Distance 132 meter







Distance 132 meter









Distance end of the road 260 meter

[Parker VH]

Thanks Vee for the great comparison pics. I'm crossing my fingers that a group buy can be arranged for the CSWL. I have a PH40 which is a great light without a doubt but seeing it side by side with the CSWL, the CSWL is simply breathtaking.
P.S. Are the Vee diffusers available for sale?
Thanks.
Bob

[DM51]

Vee, there is no doubt about it, you are the King of HID Beamshots! Absolutely brilliant photos!

[vee73]

Thank you very much for your words. vee diffuser is easy to do yourself. But if it is not possible for you, I can do for you.

[BlueBeam22]

Patriot, I really enjoyed your set of beamshots on the last page of this thread. It is great to see the Costco shining at that tower compared to the others, and its super tight beam is very impressive as always. Great videos too!

vee73, those were very nice shots. They do an extremely good job of demonstrating the exact difference between the PH50 and Night Reaper.

[cue003]

Looks like i have been missing out on some good stuff in this thread.....

[Patriot]

As DM stated, Vee is the king of HID beamshots for sure. The terrain that you chose was perfect. Looking down into a terrain bowl or up against a mountain side always makes the best pictures because the beam isn't just disappearing into the black sky like many of my powerline tower shots. It's great that Vee is able to take the time to really give us outstanding representations of the differences.

I know how much work those types of shots can be Vesa, as well as the processing and posting at home. Thanks for all of your hard work.







Houston, thanks for the nice compliment. I'm glad that you liked seeing the Costco in the mix. These days it's about the only time I take it out.

[vee73]

Thanks Patriot!
When I took the pictures. It was really cold and really strong winds. Camera images on the screen did not seem very successful. I was angry about myself, but when I got home and looked at pictures from a computer they appeared to be better, much more.

[Coke]

Originally Posted by Kubbie
Just watched a youtube video of the night reaper. You aren't going to mount that on the side of Ma Deuce and start slingin some tracer rounds at that tower, are you?

I wonder if the LED guys ever leave their AA vs 18650 and SSC-P7 vs SST-90 discussions and realize the real porn is over here...

Yes i am a from the led forum as well, we respect the HID, love to join you guys over here, butt its the budget thats why we use leds lights.


The lights like the Night Rapers are not even sold here in Amsterdam :-(

[vee73]

Finally got the handle. I think this is the best lamp ever.
Now this is really easy to carry, because the weight is distributed just the right place.
I'm speechless.

Edit: I still have to at some point coated aluminum.

[jellydonut]

Now THAT is sweet.

I'll stick to my PH40 though, this thing is out of my league.

[ma_sha1]

What's the distance that these lux were measured?

It it possible to convert them into approximate lux@1meter?

It would be an excellent set of HID throw references.

thanks

For this post I'll be performing a video series of varios HID warm up times and relative output levels. A graph would probably tell the story just as well, if not better, but in many ways the video process saves me some time. I'll save the Night Reaper for last.


Jil Lite EZNite 10W HID
28 lux stabilized at 1:15
45 lux peak at 14 sec


AE Light PL24/S 24W HID
100 lux stabilized at 1:00
101 lux peak


Wolf Eyes Boxer 24W HID
151 lux stabilized at 1:35
152 lux peak


Microfire Warrior K3500 35W HID
305 lux stabilized at 1:30
310 lux peak


Costco / Harbor Freight 35W HID
296 lux stabilized at 1:10
419 lux peak at 35 sec.


ower on Board 35W HID
326 lux stabilized at 1:35
333 lux peak at 2:00


Polarion PH50 Helios 50W HID
650 lux stabilized at 50 sec.
1000 lux peak at 9 sec.


Polarion Night Reaper (CSWL) 50+W HID
740 lux stabilized at 1:00
1134 lux peak at 11 sec.