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Thread: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

  1. #1
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    Default NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    I bought some of those 1.6V Power Genix batteries just to see how they would work compared to the Rayovac 4.0 LSD batteries I have. This is far from a scientific test but gives one a rough idea how these batteries compare.

    The Power Genix batteries come off the charger right around 1.87 volts and the Rayovacs are around 1.45 volts as read on my trusty Fluke multimeter. I used batteries that had been charged about 10 days ago but they were both charged on the same day. The Rayovac I used measured 1.36 volts and the Power Genix measured 1.82 volts.

    The flashlight used was a Quark AA Tatical R2 set to the high mode which is suppose to give 90 lumens out the front with a single AA battery. I'm impressed with the little light as it easily matches my Surefire 6P LED in output and has a warmer beam.

    If you are wondering if the light is brighter with the Power Genix battery it is but not by much.

    I started with the Power Genix battery and turned the Quark on at it's Max setting and let it set on the end table while watching Football this past Sunday. According to the literature with the light it should last 1.2 hours or 72 minutes but it doesn't say with what type of battery. The light started to fade at 97 minutes and was fading fairly fast. The battery measured 1.45 volts when I removed it.

    I let the light cool down for 30 minutes, it only got mildly warm to begin with. It was cool to the touch when I started with the Rayovac. The Rayovac started to dim at the 87 minute mark and was fading fast.

    Fairly impressed with both batteries. When starting I thought if they reached an hour I would be doing good. The Rayovac seemed to be fading faster when it started but neither battery was going to last long on Max. I didn't want to run them on a lower setting until they died completely as I understand that can shorten the battery life drastically.

    So are the Power Genix batteries worth the expense of an extra charger and the hassle of tracking a different set/type of batteries. Probably not for flashlight use but they do seem to work as advertised and if you have something that needs the extra voltage they may be the ticket. Just be careful because as I stated earlier they come out of the charger at 1.87 volts or there about and that is higher than the Energizer Lithiums.

  2. #2
    Flashaholic* Conte's Avatar
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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    Hmm, you gained 10 mins.

    Now the question is, what is the mAh rating of the 2 diff batteries ?

    I've been meaning to try those NiZN Batteries, but they seem difficult for me to get.
    Where did you get yours and how much ?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    The Power Genix are rated at 2500 mwh since wattage is a power reading. If you consider the Rayovacs are 1.2 volts and multiply that by their rated 2100 mah you arrive at 2550 mwh. Meaning they should be roughly equivalent.
    I bought them off Amazon for around $25 which included four batteries and a charger. For an extra $20 I got eight more batteries and free shipping.

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    Flashaholic* Conte's Avatar
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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    Hmm, then the 10 min gain much be cause the batteries hold their voltage longer despite the capacity.

    I've never bought anything from amazon before. I think my GF has, perhaps I'll ask her about it.

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    Flashaholic* Rexlion's Avatar
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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    NiZn cells sound interesting. I immediately thought of my Canon A series cameras, which seem very finicky about their AA's. So I checked Canon's website for mention of NiZn: nothing. Then I wrote their customer service and asked it NiZn would be ok. They replied with a stock, cut & paste type of answer that did not answer my question. I should have known they would be too lazy to give a real answer... I haven't decided whether to chance it or not.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    357, thx for posting this. I had been considering alternatives to Li-Ion 14500's (protected or not, just not comfortable carrying Li-Ion spares).

    I was debating getting Eneloops but decided to give these a shot instead. Did the same thing and got the charger + 4 AA's as well as the 8 AA's. Will post back with my feedback once I get 'em.

    Cheers,
    Tim
    Last edited by turboBB; 01-07-2010 at 03:27 PM. Reason: Clarification

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    Flashaholic* Phaserburn's Avatar
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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    Very cool! Great for lights that need the higher voltage for max performance. Might have to get me some... anyone know the best source for these?
    The Phaser: A nice EDC with great throw; heat and runtime can be issues.

    Best Diffusion Film!

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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    Quote Originally Posted by Rexlion View Post
    NiZn cells sound interesting. I immediately thought of my Canon A series cameras, which seem very finicky about their AA's. So I checked Canon's website for mention of NiZn: nothing. Then I wrote their customer service and asked it NiZn would be ok. They replied with a stock, cut & paste type of answer that did not answer my question. I should have known they would be too lazy to give a real answer... I haven't decided whether to chance it or not.
    If your camera runs better with AA Lithiums compared to Eneloops then it might be worth a shot to get the NiZn batteries. I bought them to power my Pentax DSLR's. There's no official blessing from Pentax to use these but my cameras would perform better with Lithiums so I decided to give it a try and they work good.
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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaserburn View Post
    Very cool! Great for lights that need the higher voltage for max performance. Might have to get me some... anyone know the best source for these?
    I got mine from Amazon.com so that might be your best bet.
    Last edited by Conan; 01-07-2010 at 06:07 PM.
    Fenix TA21 | Olight M20 Warrior | Eagletac P20A2 | Solarforce L2 | ITP A3 EOS Ti | Lumapower Vantage | LED Lenser Police Focus |

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    Flashaholic* Christoph's Avatar
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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    I bought a set and charger from Amazon as well. I am going to use them in single cell lights instead of protected AA li-ions.The first one I tried ran my RRT0 for 35 minutes on max min then went dim.the voltage was 1.3 and climbing as I checked it and it took a little over an hour to charge up again.It started out brighter than an eneloop.
    Chris

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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    Great post guys I have been thinking about running 3 of these in a Javelin w a NB SST 50 led....

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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    Has anyone compared the voltage under load with NiMH?

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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    that's great, the gain in efficiency thanks to the higher voltage make possible that a 1500mAh battery last longer and brighter than a 2000mAh

    and don't forget that a ni-zn cost less than a premium ni-mh (rayovak cost less of course) and the charger cost less than a premium ni-mh charger, with ni-zn we don't need any more complicated and unrealiable delta-V algorithms, the charge is always perfect like a li-ion or a SLA battery

  14. #14

    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    Just got the charger and batteries today. There's definitely a noticeable difference in terms of brightness as seen by these shots of a Zebralight H501.

    Control Shot:



    Power Genix NiZn 2500 mWh @ 1.848v (left) POWEREX 2700 mAh NiMH @ 1.425v (right):

    Canon S3 IS on M | 1/5" | 2.7f | Flash WB |

    I'm not properly equipped to do proper run time tests so will defer to someone else for those but so far I'm impressed!

    My RRT-0 is out for repairs currently but when I get it back, I'll take some additional shots.

    Cheers,
    Tim
    Last edited by turboBB; 01-10-2010 at 01:57 PM.

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    Flashaholic* Phaserburn's Avatar
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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    I ordered some of these, just to play with. I think they'd be good for 2AA lights where the higher voltage would be closer to the led vf.
    The Phaser: A nice EDC with great throw; heat and runtime can be issues.

    Best Diffusion Film!

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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    Quote Originally Posted by Conan View Post
    If your camera runs better with AA Lithiums compared to Eneloops then it might be worth a shot to get the NiZn batteries. I bought them to power my Pentax DSLR's. There's no official blessing from Pentax to use these but my cameras would perform better with Lithiums so I decided to give it a try and they work good.
    Be careful. I've seen reports of the NiZn batteries frying Pentax flashes.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    Quote Originally Posted by OpenGuy View Post
    Be careful. I've seen reports of the NiZn batteries frying Pentax flashes.
    I don't use them in my flash, only for the DSLR's.
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    Flashaholic* Nite's Avatar
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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    bought 8 of those 1.6V Power Genix batteries from amazon.

    I want to use them in my electric jacket which uses a 3.7/4.2 volt, I suspect LiPoly gel pack. like the cell in the MacbookAir by apple.

    the jacket also comes with a 6 AA battery holder if your in the woods and cant recharge.

    NiMH wont work the voltage is too low to not use alkalines, till now, but will it be too much power?

    more importantly which charger is better you think for these cells? the Genix 1 hour charger or the genix 5 hour hour charger. both say they are fast chargers, both from amazon, both with 4 more cells. both with 4 bays

    edit-> based on 1.5 volts x 6 = 9 volts, I suspect this a 7.4 volt or so battery pack. SO if it works with 9 vollts from 6 alkies, will six times 1.87 = 11.22 and be too much? I better call the manufacturer



    thanks
    Last edited by Nite; 01-28-2010 at 04:27 AM. Reason: *
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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    The 1 hour charger is better but in reality it's a 2.5 hour charger as the batteries reach 80% in hour and gets trickle charged the rest of the way.
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    *Flashaholic* Mr Happy's Avatar
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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    Quote Originally Posted by Nite View Post
    NiMH wont work the voltage is too low to not use alkalines, till now, but will it be too much power?
    This seems a little unusual. For heating devices or heavy current consumers it is typical for NiMH to work far, far better than alkalines. For example a hand held soldering iron I have kills alkalines but works like a charm on NiMH.

    What is it that doesn't work about the jacket with NiMH? Does it give a low battery warning, or does it just not get warm?

  21. #21
    Flashaholic* 45/70's Avatar
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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    Quote Originally Posted by Nite View Post
    NiMH wont work the voltage is too low to not use alkalines, till now, but will it be too much power?
    A bit OT, but I've never come across a portable heating device like you describe, that was voltage dependent. These devices are purely current driven, and good NiMH/NiCd cells always work better than alkalines, because of this.

    I suspect that the NiMH cells you are trying to use, are suffering from voltage depression (which means they can't deliver significant current, as well, except at very low rates) and just can't deliver enough power to create any heat.

    Go ahead with your NiZN trial, but NiMH's should blow away alkalines in this type of device, if they are in good shape. You have to be careful not to over discharge NiMH cells in something like this, especially when they're in series, or you'll kill the cells. Recharge, well before they quit working.

    In my experience with "D" cell socks, I used 4500mAh NiCd's, and they were much warmer. They didn't last as long as alkalines, but they actually put out some heat.

    Dave

    EDIT: Awww, Mr H.
    Last edited by 45/70; 01-28-2010 at 10:17 AM. Reason: added edit

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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    Quote Originally Posted by Nite View Post
    which charger is better you think for these cells? the Genix 1 hour charger or the genix 5 hour hour charger.
    The 1 hour charger (which is really 2 hours to FULL charge) will charge an even or odd number of batteries.

    The 5 hour charger will only charge in pairs (an even number of batteries).

    Your application calls for 6, so no problem. But, if you ever want to use the batteries in an application that uses 1 or 3 batteries, you will wish you had the 1 hour charger.

    Besides bicycle lights and flashlights (which do burn brighter), I use mine in a Canon PowerShot (faster recharge of the flash) and in an electric shaver (zoom-zoom).
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    Flashaholic* Nite's Avatar
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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    Quote Originally Posted by 45/70 View Post
    A bit OT, but I've never come across a portable heating device like you describe, that was voltage dependent. These devices are purely current driven, and good NiMH/NiCd cells always work better than alkalines, because of this.

    I suspect that the NiMH cells you are trying to use, are suffering from voltage depression (which means they can't deliver significant current, as well, except at very low rates) and just can't deliver enough power to create any heat.

    Go ahead with your NiZN trial, but NiMH's should blow away alkalines in this type of device, if they are in good shape. You have to be careful not to over discharge NiMH cells in something like this, especially when they're in series, or you'll kill the cells. Recharge, well before they quit working.

    In my experience with "D" cell socks, I used 4500mAh NiCd's, and they were much warmer. They didn't last as long as alkalines, but they actually put out some heat.

    Dave

    EDIT: Awww, Mr H.
    I think that when I use the NimH AA holder...cells that are fresh...the voltage drops quickly so my runtime is shorter than it should be.

    The jacket shuts off automatically when voltage is too low to protect the battery packs. a real problem when nimh cells drop down to 1.2

    This is a great jacket...from brookstone.com its a windproof fleece..buy it from the manufacturer (not brookstone) with two rechargeable packs..youll save alot of money. lo medium high..soft fibers that heat up

    Ill give the compnay a call..they have great service. last year he said use alkies, not nimh..NiZN would solve this if the voltage wont burn out the controller.

    6 Nizn is like 3 volts more to start than nimh

    thanks
    My Father, WonderLite, sells FM1794 bulbs, FiveMega 18mm Bodies, and AW cells on CPFM. www.nitemods.com

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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    Under load I've seen the Nizn as high as 1.75 volts but that was straight out of the charger. If they have been charged for a week their resting voltage sets around 1.82 and starts out under load right about 1.65 then settles in for 1.6volts for most of the run.

  25. #25

    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    Quote Originally Posted by r1gm1n View Post
    The 1 hour charger (which is really 2 hours to FULL charge) will charge an even or odd number of batteries.

    The 5 hour charger will only charge in pairs (an even number of batteries).

    Your application calls for 6, so no problem. But, if you ever want to use the batteries in an application that uses 1 or 3 batteries, you will wish you had the 1 hour charger.

    Besides bicycle lights and flashlights (which do burn brighter), I use mine in a Canon PowerShot (faster recharge of the flash) and in an electric shaver (zoom-zoom).
    Where did you get that information from?

    According to powergenix website, the 3-5 hr charger charges 1-4 AA. Same as the 1 hour charger.

    I want to get a set for my Sonicare toothbrush that takes AA's (zoom-zoom).

  26. #26

    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderCloud View Post
    Where did you get that information from?

    According to powergenix website, the 3-5 hr charger charges 1-4 AA. Same as the 1 hour charger.

    I want to get a set for my Sonicare toothbrush that takes AA's (zoom-zoom).
    Apparently there is a new version of the 3-5 hour charger which isn't available yet. If you click on "More" info, it says coming soon. The batteries needed to be charged in pairs in the original slower charger as I understand it.

  27. #27

    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    Sounds interesting.

    I want to try them in FiveMega 3xAA body with Malkoff M30 module.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    Quote Originally Posted by Mockingbird View Post
    The batteries needed to be charged in pairs in the original slower charger as I understand it.
    And although the faster 1 hour charger accepts odd numbers of cells (got mine just today yay!), this direct quote from the manual has me scratching my head:

    "1. Insert 1 to 4 AA or 2 AAA rechargeable NiZN batteries into the battery compartment; batteries should be charged in pairs for optimal performance."

    I wonder what that means? If I insert a single cell it won't get charged fully? Because I find it hard to believe it would take longer to charge a single cell. Those are the only two possibilities I can come up with for "optimal performance".

    The specifications page reads:
    1 or 2 PCS AA 1500mA
    3 or 4 PCS AA 750mA

    If anyone's got any idea what they're getting at here I'd sure love to hear it -- I was planning on charging a single cell per day, but if that's gonna be bad for my cells then that's another matter.

    Ahhhh wait... perhaps they are just trying to say it's best/fastest to not charge more than a pair at a time? That would make sense.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    Where do you buy this?
    It would be interesting to use it on Led Lenser lights.. but I cant find AAA of this cells only AA.
    Do they hold the charge ok?
    Artur

  30. #30
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    Default Re: NIZN VERSUS NIMH

    I charge single Nizn cells all the time and don't see any performance difference during use than when I charge two or more.

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