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Thread: Everfast LSD

  1. #1
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Everfast LSD

    Hi.

    Today I was lurking in a chain store in spain (alcampo if you want to know) and found some of these in sale.

    For those who dont know it, buying batteries in spain is expensive (there was some AA duraloops at 18+ € in the same store) and finding LSD cells at 0.5 € each its really a bargain, even cheaper than brand alkalines.

    So I bought a pack of 2 and will do some tests: discharge, break-in, etc trying to figure if they are bad even at that low price.

    Took some pictures in a hurry too:




    As you probably noticed, there are no capacity marks anywhere. Dont be fooled by the 2€ label: I only paid 1€.

    Everfast vs eneloop vs GS Yuasa enitime

    They say 900 mAh. Too good to be true. We will see the real capacity in our tests.

    Detail of the top


    There is a thread in the forums that states that there are only 3 different kinds of LSD cells and the rest are just rebrands. If that is true, what kind are these? (the bottom of the cell is plain as Yuasas and eneloops).

    Doing a discharge right now.

    --- First results ---

    Code:
                       Cell 1       Cell 2       Cell 3       Cell 4
                       mAh, V       mAh, V       mAh, V       mAh, V
    Discharge  (200)  290  1.20    300  1.20    517  1.20    522  1.19
    R&A    (500/200)  756  1.43    771  1.42        -            -
    Discharge  (200)  751  1.19    763  1.18        -            -
    Break-In   (800)  754  1.43    761  1.42        -            -
    Discharge  (200)  749  1.21    758  1.20        -            -
    R&A    (500/200)      -            -            -            -
    --- Final results (15-03-2010) ---

    Since there is a lot of data I made a spreadsheet with it.

    http://www.mediafire.com/?yaowkeau2jy

    Some tips:
    - The V number you can see before the first actions is the Voltage in open circuit after resting at leas 24 h.
    - Each package had 2 cells (odd, even).
    - You can see that there are basically two groups of cells, one that had around 300 mAh out of the package and the other one that had around 500 mAh. Probably they were from two different batches and dates.

    They are pretty consistent (at least more consistent than traditional NiMH chemistry) in capacity and they did not lose some of that capacity with every charge, so I think the the purchase was worth it

    I will do a self-discharge test like I am doing with the Yuasa enitime cells.

    ----------- Update June-08-2010:

    Results of 3 month self discharge and Break-In after that.

    Code:
    Cell - Purchase mAh - Break-in - 3 Month (%) - Break-in (3 mo)
     69        289          757        659 (87)          762
     72        527          748        654 (87)          752
    ---------- Update 08-28-2010:

    After 6 months.

    Code:
    Cell - Purchase mAh - Break-in - 6 Month (%) - Break-in (6 mo)
     62        289          757       623 (82)           758
     64        527          748       24+621 (86)        760
    Last edited by vali; 08-30-2010 at 07:23 AM.

  2. #2
    Flashaholic* Niconical's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everfast LSD

    Well, looks like I'm going to Alcampo tomorrow


  3. #3
    Flashaholic* snakebite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everfast LSD


    look to to be made by one of the less advanced battery makers.
    look at the wasted space in that huge crimp.
    compare to your eneloop.
    the rated capacity and lsd scream fake.

    i am always looking for old radios and tv sets.tube stuff.ham gear.i repair all the above.
    email me for more info. SPAMMERS WILL BE PUNISHED!

  4. #4
    Flashaholic* Niconical's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everfast LSD

    Something I just noticed, why does the 'ready to use' battery have 'charge before use' written on it?


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Everfast LSD

    Updated the first post.

    The initial discharge just finished. The results are pretty bad. They are LSD to some degree, but I dont think they will be usefull after 2 years of storage.

    Normally, I would do a break-in using the stated capacity, but as I dont trust that number I am doing a Refresh & Analize run (500 mA Charge/200 mA Discharge) to try to figure out a rough estimate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Niconical View Post
    Something I just noticed, why does the 'ready to use' battery have 'charge before use' written on it?
    I think they reffer to "before recharging", but seeing the initial discharge I dont know what to think.

    It can be that the 900 mAh is the right figure, using LSD technology but sacrifying the self discharge vs capacity. It can be that their self discharge is worse than other LSD and were old cells. It can be that they shipped the cells with lower charge than other. It can be that they are crap cells...

    Even being bad cells at that price they can be worth it (cheaper than most alkalines) and at least have some degree of LSD. At least they seem better than regular NiMH cheapos.

    More tests to come.

    ------------------------------

    Update:

    After the Refresh & Analize cycle I got 756 and 771 mAh (check first post), so they are, probably, 800 mAh or so.

    Right now I am discharging them again prior to a Break-In using 800 mAh as capacity (unless the ongoing discharge shows a great improvement).
    Last edited by vali; 01-19-2010 at 10:17 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Everfast LSD

    Cool, please keep us posted.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Everfast LSD

    Discharging finished, check first post.

    The cells are probably 750-800 mAh, just like other LSD AAA brands. I will do a break-in like they were 800 mAh.

    The cells dropped a bit in capacity, so I will probably do an additional discharge and a Refresh & Analize run just to see if they dont fade away with use. If they maintain about 750 mAh by then, Ill probably buy about 10 or 15 packages. Right now there are about 50 or so, but I am confident people will not buy even half of them...

    @Niconical: did you visit Alcampo? I dont think it is a general sale, but just some old (2-3 years) stock of that store. If they are in other stores then I think I will start a "good deal" thread in the MP (If the cells dont fade away).
    Last edited by vali; 01-19-2010 at 06:08 PM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Everfast LSD

    50 cents a pop you shouldn't be expecting it to perform as an eneloop. But if ti holds the 750mAh i think its a good deal and normal for AAA, although i don't really know much about them as i try to avoid them for their low capacity and bang/buck ratio =)

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* snakebite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everfast LSD

    at least the capacity wasnt too big a lie.
    if you get a bunch of them it would be nice to break in a set and do a long term storage test too.
    but even if they take a nosedive after a dozen or so cycles they would still save money in the long run over alks.

    i am always looking for old radios and tv sets.tube stuff.ham gear.i repair all the above.
    email me for more info. SPAMMERS WILL BE PUNISHED!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Everfast LSD

    Thats what i was thinking, for the price why pass them up.....at least the cells will give you some life and save you a little bit of money in the end by buying alkies.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Everfast LSD

    Yes, I was thinking the same. They are even cheaper than most alkies and will probably not leak either. Waiting to do a couple of cycles more to see if they lose too many mAh each charge like the "tronic" batteries my parents used to buy.

    I dont have a lot of things using AAA (remotes, clocks, a few of flashlights, etc) but most of my AAA cells were crap but the 8 eneloops I bought several months ago and the 4 enitimes I was doing the self discharge test with. I will probably get some more "just in case" and will try to do a self discharge test like the aforementioned one.

    Found too a few packages of 4 AAA energizer lithiums at 3€, but the "used by" date was 2014 and I think they will not worth it.

  12. #12
    Flashaholic* Niconical's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everfast LSD

    Quote Originally Posted by vali View Post
    @Niconical: did you visit Alcampo? I dont think it is a general sale, but just some old (2-3 years) stock of that store. If they are in other stores then I think I will start a "good deal" thread in the MP (If the cells dont fade away).
    In one store there were none, or any of that brand, but I'm going past another tomorrow so I'll check in, you never know.


  13. #13

    Default Re: Everfast LSD

    btw the last batch of "Tronic" I bought seems to be be much better than the first... The first tested out at 1000-1200mAh (AA), and acceptable self-discharge properties for non-LSD. Last batch tested out at over 2000, still haven't evaluated self-discharge properties though.
    Too much fun can be had buying cheap batteries ;-)

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Everfast LSD

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowjk View Post
    btw the last batch of "Tronic" I bought seems to be be much better than the first... The first tested out at 1000-1200mAh (AA), and acceptable self-discharge properties for non-LSD. Last batch tested out at over 2000, still haven't evaluated self-discharge properties though.
    Too much fun can be had buying cheap batteries ;-)
    Even brand new 2300 supplied with their fast chargers were about 2000 mAh after break-in. 7 charges later they were 1700 mAh, losing capacity with each charge. Most batteries my parents had were different types of that brand, all of them with the same behaviour, so when I got the C9000 first time I realized we had a pile of crap

    These ones seem a better deal:

    After break-in I got 754 mAh, 1.43 V and 761, 1.42 V.

    Trying to verify if they will act like the tronic ones, I am doing a new discharger and will be followed by a Refresh & Analize.

    Just in case a bought 20 more cells for just 10 €

  15. #15
    Flashaholic* uk_caver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everfast LSD

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowjk View Post
    btw the last batch of "Tronic" I bought seems to be be much better than the first... The first tested out at 1000-1200mAh (AA), and acceptable self-discharge properties for non-LSD. Last batch tested out at over 2000, still haven't evaluated self-discharge properties though.
    Too much fun can be had buying cheap batteries ;-)
    I bought some Tronic AAs a couple of years ago, mainly out of curiosity.
    I got about 1100-1200mAh out of them.

    The 6-way Tronic smart charger is fairly decent.
    It seems to get some old cells maybe a little too warm at end-of-charge, but behaves very nicely with Eneloops.
    Last edited by uk_caver; 01-21-2010 at 12:25 PM.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Everfast LSD

    More info on these cells.

    After a new discharge got 749 and 758 mAh. It seems the capacity dont go down alarmingly fast.

    Then I did a discharge on a new couple I got today. This time the results were 517 mAh, 1.2 V and 522 mAh, 1.19 V. About 70% remaining charge if the capacity is about 750 mAh like the first ones.

    This new pair behaved like we used to see in LSD NiMH. The first one are, either much older or a couple of lemons. Results like these are the reasons why we never should clasify a brand in "good" or "bad" terms for just one or a couple of samples. For me, it seems my purchase were not that bad in the end

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Everfast LSD

    After I lot of time I finished the break-in in these cells. Sorry for the amount of time it took me, but I had some "reliability issues" with the electricity (I need an UPS) due strong winds and heavy rain, plus I use the same C9000 to charge my EDC eneloops.

    Results in the first post in a spreadsheet.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Everfast LSD

    By looking at the capacity of the cells it looks like you got your monies worth.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Everfast LSD

    Thanks for this review!
    I'll look to see if I see them on my next purchase in Alcampo.

  20. #20
    Enlightened spanish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Everfast LSD

    I have some batteries like there beacause are very cheap, and isn`t so bad.

    But "ready to use" is an advertising phrase, older than LSD batteries started to commercialize.
    I'm not retarded. The problem is that I'm learning english and the teacher is not good.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Everfast LSD

    Today I did a discharge on some of these unused cells that were charged 3 moths ago to test their self discharge. Since I got 2 different groups according the remaing capacity at purchase (one gruopu had less than 300 mAh left and the other one more than 500 mAh) I did a discharge of one cell of each gruop.

    I was under de suspicion they are, probably, from two different batches and one of such batches are way older than the other one. The alternative would be that one batch were crap and would self discharge faster than the other one.

    Here are the results after a 200 mA discharge.

    Code:
    Cell - Purchase mAh - Break-in Capacity - 3 Month (%)
     69        289                757           659 (87)
     72        527                748           654 (87)
    They are, indeed, LSD and have a good amount of energy left after 3 months. My suspicions about 2 batches seem to be confirmed because there is no noticeable difference between them. They are, in fact, very consistent between samples (hard to believe if you take in account the price I paid for them).

    This test only takes in accout self discharge, but says nothing about how tough they are in practical use or how many cycles they will stand. At least you can use LSD in remotes for almost the same money as alkalines

    Ill do a Break-In on them and see if there is any variation in capacity.
    Last edited by vali; 06-08-2010 at 07:46 AM.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Everfast LSD

    Just an update.

    After the discharge I did a break-in on these cells to check if they lose some capacity because the ausence of maintenance (even if there was only 3 months). Not only they didnt suffer for it, but the capacity increased marginally (as you can see in the updated table).

    Too good to be true?

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Everfast LSD

    And another update.

    After 6 months (and a couple of weeks because I forgot about it ) the capacity left is:

    Code:
    Cell - Purchase mAh - Break-in - 6 Month (%) - Break-in (6 mo)
     62        289          757       623 (82)           758
     64        527          748       24+621 (86)        760
    At first, when I was doing the discharge I was using only 2 bays on the C9000. Then I added a couple of AA to charge and bay 2 showed "Done" and 24 mAh. I was suspicious of the result, so did a 2nd discharge and got another 621. Since I have plenty of this cells unused I'll try to do more 6 month test to get a better picture.

    I am doing 2 discharges at a time because half of the cells had a noticeable less energy left when bought, so I am trying to see if there is any difference in LSD capabilities between those 2 groups. On the other hand, if they maintain almost 84% after 6 months (and self-discharge slows with time) How old are these cells? Maybe they were charged less than the other group?
    Last edited by vali; 08-30-2010 at 07:23 AM.

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