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Thread: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

  1. #1
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    Default G2L + Malkoff M60LL

    I recently purchased a Malkoff P60LL, and swapped out the original Surefire LED module that came with my G2, and noticed a few things that I'm not sure are normal or not. Please provide any constructive advise, or similar experiences you might have had with this combination.

    First, there is a small gap between the head/bezel and the body of the light with the Malkoff dropin installed. This gap is not there with the original. I tried the P60LL in a second G2L, same gap. Do I have to do something with the lense since the Malkoff has the optic?

    Second, the Malkoff to my eyes is not as bright, and the spill not as smooth as the Surefire LED module that came with it. I wasn't expecting this, as I thought the output on fresh batteries would be the same. Maybe I got one far left, and the other far right, but within standard deviation of nominal? I understand the Malkoff should have vastly superior runtime, due in part to the use of a more efficient emitter.
    Last edited by damn_hammer; 05-05-2010 at 07:30 AM.

  2. #2
    Moderator Kestrel's Avatar
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    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    Everything is cool.

    That gap exists so that the head/bezel can reference off the LED drop-in instead of off the flashlight body - that insures positive electrical contact (and superior thermal conductivity) in hosts of slightly varying depths since the Malkoff doesn't use a compressible spring like your P60LED. A machinist friend of mine made a host without this 'gap' and he has occasional difficulty getting reliable electrical connection with his Malkoff M30 in it.

    Also, the P60LED may start somewhat brighter initially, but as it heats up over a few minutes, the thermal regulation inside the module (protecting the LED from overheating) will take it from ~80 lumens to ~70 lumens in an all-aluminum 6P, ~60 lumens in a nitrolon G2 w/ aluminum head, and down to ~50 lumens in a nitrolon G2 w/ nitrolon head over the first 5 or so minutes. The M60LL, with it's fantastic (and patented) heat sinking doesn't have to do this, so it should maintain its slightly lower initial output for as long as the cells hold out (~18 hours per BigWaffles' runtime graphs).

    Regarding the spill not being quite so smooth, the Malkoff uses an optic, which many prefer due to the gradual transition between the hotspot and the spill. The Surefire may have a smoother overall beam due to its textured reflector, but I find myself preferring the diffuse hotspot from the Malkoff optic, even though I may see a few rings when shining it on a wall - not noticible in real use anyway.

    Also, the tint from the SureFire P60LED is - I sold all of mine and replaced them with Malkoffs.

    Enjoy your M60LL, I have one residing in a G2L in my wife's car, and I consider the combination perhaps the finest 'budget' LED light ever made.

    Hope this helps,
    K
    Last edited by Kestrel; 02-02-2010 at 08:55 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    I use an o-ring to fill in the gap between the head and body.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    yeah the gap is normal though..

    about the beam shot you have, I am not too sure, however, if u dont like it perhaps you could contact Gene himself and ask him to rectify the problem for you...

    but the beam shot should be better than the surefire P60L which is absolutely horrible in my humble opinion with its blue tint...

    also the reason why u notice your malkoff m60LL is not as bright as the P60L is because on the malkoff website m60LL is rated at +/- 80 bulb lumens are not off the front lumens unlike the P60L is 80 lumens otf at least..

    nevertheless, eventually the malkoff m60LL will be brighter than the P60L when the termal regulation kicks in...

  5. #5

    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    I have a Surefire 9P clone by FiveMega, externally it looks nearly identical to a 9P except that it can take 18mm cells.

    Anyway, I use M60LL module that you talk about -- I sometimes use 2xAA cells in it. Problem is, 2xAA cells were just a little shorter than 3x123 or 2x18500, so that I wasn't getting a reliable contact.

    I ended up filing the module, which brought it about 2mm closer inside the head and apparently made all the difference, now it cuts on reliably with AA cells.

    I think that's the only instance when you need to do this... you should be fine as you are.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    You might be interested in this graphing, see post 111. At least you can see the different runtimes for the Malkoff M60LL and comparison with SF's P60L. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...=216438&page=3


    Bill

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    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff M60LL

    Thanks for all the great responses. Kestrel hit it bang on. This yellow G2L w/M60LL will be living in the glove box of my wife's car also. I overlooked the fact that the Malkoff states emitter lumens vs. Surefires OTF. Fantastic value on this w/the CPF discount on top of closeout pricing. Questions answered without having to take Mr. Malkoffs time away from perfecting the XP-G dropin!

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    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff M60LL

    Quote Originally Posted by damn_hammer View Post
    Thanks for all the great responses. Kestrel hit it bang on. This yellow G2L w/M60LL will be living in the glove box of my wife's car also. I overlooked the fact that the Malkoff states emitter lumens vs. Surefires OTF. Fantastic value on this w/the CPF discount on top of closeout pricing. Questions answered without having to take Mr. Malkoffs time away from perfecting the XP-G dropin!
    Gene Malkoff's lumen ratings for the M60 and Wildcat are pretty much spot on, and he is using an IS now. M60LL lumen rating has not been modified as I yet, I notice. Most of us are noticing that the M60LL will give different output reading with a CR123, single cell Li-Ion, and two Li-Ion's, and all of them show a flat runtime, at their respective output levels. BigWaffle's runtime graphs display some of that vividly.

    Bill

  9. #9
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    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff M60LL

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullzeyebill View Post
    Gene Malkoff's lumen ratings for the M60 and Wildcat are pretty much spot on, and he is using an IS now. M60LL lumen rating has not been modified as I yet, I notice. Most of us are noticing that the M60LL will give different output reading with a CR123, single cell Li-Ion, and two Li-Ion's, and all of them show a flat runtime, at their respective output levels. BigWaffle's runtime graphs display some of that vividly.

    Bill
    so does any one know what is the off the front lumens for the M60LL using 2x cr123a battery? I cant seem to find it on cpf..

    I know from big waffe graph there is a difference in output using the m60ll in a g2 and a g3. Hence, I am puzzle why at the malkoff website they only state 80 bulb lumens...

    perhaps there is a technical explanation to this...
    Last edited by seale_navy; 02-04-2010 at 08:34 PM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    What kind of lumens / runtime can you expect with M60LL and 1x123?

  11. #11

    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    Back to the gap between the M60-module and the bezel: can this be filled with a GITD O-ring, and if so, does anyone know the proper dimensions for the ring and where I can get a few?

    I have a G2 and an M60LF incomeing.
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  12. #12
    Moderator Kestrel's Avatar
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    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    Where I work has a huge selection of o-rings, but nothing I've come across seems to fit - an extremely narrow o-ring is needed. Good luck. <shrug>
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  13. #13

    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    Big blue,

    I tried all sorts of o-rings on the G2 (same setup) and found that the non-round nubs of the plastic would not allow an o-ring to properly fill the gap for me (unlike the 6P where the dereelight CL1H body o-rings are perfect for this gap fill)

    Anyway, went the route of carefully sanding the malkoff module (you can find the details here on CPF) and now the fit is excellent with no contact issues and no gap. Hope that helps!

  14. #14
    Flashaholic* bullfrog's Avatar
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    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
    Where I work has a huge selection of o-rings, but nothing I've come across seems to fit - an extremely narrow o-ring is needed. Good luck. <shrug>
    Quote Originally Posted by Darvis View Post
    Big blue,

    I tried all sorts of o-rings on the G2 (same setup) and found that the non-round nubs of the plastic would not allow an o-ring to properly fill the gap for me (unlike the 6P where the dereelight CL1H body o-rings are perfect for this gap fill)

    Anyway, went the route of carefully sanding the malkoff module (you can find the details here on CPF) and now the fit is excellent with no contact issues and no gap. Hope that helps!
    There is a lot of variation I've found with the gaps... some wont fit an O ring, some do and I even have a few G2s that crank down with no gap around a malkoff

    I dont even bother trying to fill the gaps anymore - Ive used my hosts a bunch of times in the rain and never had an issue.
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    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    Just to give you an idea...here is my setup with G2L-FYL host with Malkoff M60LL.



    The gap is hardly significant. It is still water resistant (checked it under a running water).

    I read somewhere that 80 lumens is with 2xcr123a and a runtime of ~8 hours. Can't recall where, but remember doing some research before doing my setup.

    Either way, it's a perfect around the house utility light just about for everything and even better during an emergency (just speculating based on advertised runtime). I've used the light off and on for sometime now with the same 2xcr123a and so far so good

  16. #16

    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    I had just one problem with the gap. In a SF 9P clone by FiveMega, 2xAA are not a good fit, especially L91s. They can be shaken loose, and just not getting the contact. I had to file the module a bit for a solid contact, that 2MM made all the difference. Since the AA cells is just slightly shorter than 18500, or 2xAA are shorter than 3x123.

    In other bodies, it hasn't made any difference, just aesthetics.

  17. #17

    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    I noticed that a M60LL used in SF bezels with plastic windows don't have any gap but those with glass do, or rather this has been the case for me. However the gap is very very small and in no way harms the water resistance of the light so it's not an issue. I would rather have positive contact with the M60LL drop-in over a minor cosmetic issue that even my OCD could care less about.

    edit.

    The M60LL beats my P60L in almost every way though the P60L is brighter for the first few minutes when used in my all plastic G2.
    Last edited by Woods Walker; 05-07-2010 at 10:07 PM.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    I read somewhere that P60LL is much brighter with G2 than with 6P, but can't find the thread now. Anyone who can comment/explain that?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    The concerns about water resistance when there is a gap present are misplaced. With or without a gap water moisture will still be able to penetrate up to the level of the O ring on the body of the G2 or 6P. Only if this is compromised by wear or lack of lubrication will water or moisture be able to penetrate into the internal parts of the body or bezel. Obviously the same goes for the other points of entry on the bezel or tailcap of the G2/6P. Perhaps of more concern is the possibility that grit/sand or other abrasive elements are left sticking in the gap without being removed prior to taking off the bezel and then damaging the O ring when you screw the bezel back on. But hey you guys always clean your light before disassembly don't you?...lol

  20. #20

    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    Just another reason to file the module for a tight fit.
    Malkoff Devices: M61SHO, Panasonic NCR18650* cells, Leef 2x18650 silver body.

  21. #21

    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    I just bought one of the closeout M60LF and the gap on my aluminum head G2 was alot more than any of the pictures I've seen on CPF. Its about 4-5mm. Way too much for my liking, that space can collect alot of dirt and sand. Plus while it still may have the o-ring protecting the head, I feel better without a huge gap in the seam letting water in constantly.

    But then I tried it in an older all nitrolon G2 with nitrolon head, and it screws down almost all the way. the seam has a tiny hairline gap on one side because it isn't seated perfectly even. I guess its staying in this body.

    Maybe on my next one I'll consider grinding it down.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullzeyebill View Post
    You might be interested in this graphing, see post 111. At least you can see the different runtimes for the Malkoff M60LL and comparison with SF's P60L. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...=216438&page=3


    Bill
    Here's a direct link to the post itself (thanks Bill!)

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...&postcount=111
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    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    Quote Originally Posted by Swedpat View Post
    I read somewhere that P60LL is much brighter with G2 than with 6P, but can't find the thread now. Anyone who can comment/explain that?
    That would be surprising. Are you sure you don't mean the G3 vs. 6P comparison shown in the chart linked above?
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  24. #24

    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    M60LL:
    3x123 = brighter but shorter runtime.
    2x123 = less lumens, greater runtime.

    Great module that plays with the most configurations of any Malkoff module:

    1x18650, 2x18650, 3x123, 2x123, 2xAA, 1x123 and so on.
    Malkoff Devices: M61SHO, Panasonic NCR18650* cells, Leef 2x18650 silver body.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    Could not have said it better myself. Spot on.

    Quote Originally Posted by etc View Post
    M60LL:
    3x123 = brighter but shorter runtime.
    2x123 = less lumens, greater runtime.

    Great module that plays with the most configurations of any Malkoff module:

    1x18650, 2x18650, 3x123, 2x123, 2xAA, 1x123 and so on.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    Quote Originally Posted by JNewell View Post
    That would be surprising. Are you sure you don't mean the G3 vs. 6P comparison shown in the chart linked above?
    It's possible I earlier mixed G2 and G3. Now I know that it's the same with G2 and 6P. It has to be when it's same batteries and same LED-device. I also found that M60LL was brighter in 9P.

    Regards, Patric

  27. #27

    Default Re: G2L + Malkoff P60LL

    Quote Originally Posted by Woods Walker View Post
    I noticed that a M60LL used in SF bezels with plastic windows don't have any gap but those with glass do, or rather this has been the case for me.
    My experience is opposite of yours.

    I EDC a G2Z with Malkoff M60LL and use a 6P Defender with Malkoff M61 as a weapon light. Both have the Pyrex window and neither have any gap.

    Only have pics of the G2Z

    Last edited by gregw45; 09-11-2010 at 04:23 AM.

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