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Thread: 18650 body on a Quark

  1. #1

    Default 18650 body on a Quark

    Just wondered if anyone has the 18650 body for their Quark and how much longer run time it gives over 123² primaries or Rechargeables?

    Thanks,

    John

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    Flashaholic* AnAppleSnail's Avatar
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    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    The voltage of an 18650 will disappoint you for time in regulation if you're using a 123^2 head. It's meant for the AA or 123 heads.
    My biggest light-hog is my camera.

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    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    Selfbuilt did an output/runtime comparison between the two head types on a 17670.

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    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    Looks like the 123^2 head is better with 17670 than a 123 or AA head. It won't leave you in the dark w/o warning. The brightness should be almost the same as the 123/AA head with a 3.7 volt battery, but will run for waaaaay longer.

    My favorite light has to be the Q123^2 neutral with a 17670. I don't see the point of the 18650 body as I assume it is a bit thicker and the 17670 never gets close to running out of juice. I use mine at work as a paramedic and even in a difficult extraction call we are never on scene for more than 45 min or an hour. I keep a Q123 body with a CR123 primary in it for backup and have an Olight M20 with an extra 2x123 battery magazine just in case I run out or my partner needs a light.

    Is the 18650 tube much thicker? Can it use 2xRCR123 like the original?

    Now I'm curious how much runtime the 18650 has over the 17670. Anyone know?

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    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    Quote Originally Posted by Xak View Post
    Looks like the 123^2 head is better with 17670 than a 123 or AA head. It won't leave you in the dark w/o warning.

    My favorite light has to be the Q123^2 neutral with a 17670.

    I don't see the point of the 18650 body as I assume it is a bit thicker and the 17670 never gets close to running out of juice. .....

    Is the 18650 tube much thicker? Can it use 2xRCR123 like the original?
    This is the way i use my Quark 2x123 Turbo too and it's the perfect thing for me. I actually carry a spare 17670 battery in a spare 2x123 turbo body with clip and tailcap so it's a twenty second job to swap tubes but I have never actually run my 16760 down to the point where I needed to swap.

    Yes, the 18650 body is thicker than the regular 2x123 body but about the same thickness as the turbo body so for me it woud be the perfect thickness but it's just about as long as the 2xAA so too long for pocket carry for me.

    On the other hand, if you can get past the regulation thing where the AA/AA2/123 head runs straight until going suddenly dark at battery protection cut off, it can run on 18650, 17870, 14500 and single RCR123 so it's a pretty versatile Lithium head too. As backup it can run single CR123, single AA or double AA. I just happen to have bodies to suit all those so my AA2 Turbo and AA2 regular are sort of any-occasion torches.

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    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    actual runtile till 50% should be promising though =)
    Quote Originally Posted by AnAppleSnail View Post
    The voltage of an 18650 will disappoint you for time in regulation if you're using a 123^2 head. It's meant for the AA or 123 heads.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    I'm really curious about this as well. This will be my first entry into the 18650 arena via the body for the Quark 123.

    Runtimes needed... selfbuilt where are you? We need the selfbuilt light to shine into the sky. Anyone have a spare SST-90? hehe...

    -RC
    Quark: 123 XP-G R5 Lite Flux: LF2XT - XP-G R5 upgrade Nitecore: EX-10 GDP Fenix: P2D [/FONT]CE with L2D, L1D bodies Zebralight: H30-Q5 Coleman: Exponent lantern

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    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    Perhaps there is a battery conscious mathematical genius somewhere on this site who can extrapolate the runtime of the AW 1600mAh 17670 to get to an approximation of that of the AW 2600mAh 18650? I'm going to go out on a very mathematically uneducated limb here and guess it will run approximately one and a half times as long as the 17670.

  9. #9

    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    I'm using a 123x2 head on a 18650 body with good results since I prefer declining light output vs abrupt darkness.

    Hopefully one of the experts will perform a output/runtime graph but I got 150 minutes on MAX with a EagleTac 2400 18650 cell that still measured 3.62 and producing a lot of light. This was the cells first discharge and I didn't want to go below 3.6v.

    I now have a few AW 2600 cells and could test again but I don't have a way to determine output drop when it falls out of regulation.

  10. #10

    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    Quote Originally Posted by Xak View Post
    Looks like the 123^2 head is better with 17670 than a 123 or AA head. It won't leave you in the dark w/o warning. The brightness should be almost the same as the 123/AA head with a 3.7 volt battery, but will run for waaaaay longer.

    My favorite light has to be the Q123^2 neutral with a 17670. I don't see the point of the 18650 body as I assume it is a bit thicker and the 17670 never gets close to running out of juice. I use mine at work as a paramedic and even in a difficult extraction call we are never on scene for more than 45 min or an hour. I keep a Q123 body with a CR123 primary in it for backup and have an Olight M20 with an extra 2x123 battery magazine just in case I run out or my partner needs a light.

    Is the 18650 tube much thicker? Can it use 2xRCR123 like the original?

    Now I'm curious how much runtime the 18650 has over the 17670. Anyone know?
    Xak,
    Does the 17670 fit into the body of the 123², is it the same size? I was trying to look at the cost and benefits of which Quark to go with over the runtime and lumens it will give me and whether I'd need to get the extra body.

    How long does the 17670 last for on max before running out? Is it more than primaries?

    I have read a post from someone who said they used a 17670 or 18650 in their AA head and since then it is the only battery that works the AA no longer works. Seems strange.

    I'd love to know how much bigger and thicker the 18650 tube is as well to compare with the AA and 123² bodies. Would love to know how long you can go in moonlight and max for with the 18650 over 123².

    John

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    Enlightened mkphc's Avatar
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    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    im a little confused,
    are you saying that a 123-2 with a 17670 is more efficient than a 123 w/18650?

    i was interested in getting the 123 w/18650 body but if i heard you right then this sounds like the way to go

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    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    Quote Originally Posted by john10001 View Post
    Does the 17670 fit into the body of the 123², is it the same size?
    The AW 17670 battery fits into the existing standard 2 x 123 tube. Some Quark tubes are narrower than others and I've found a couple of mine are tighter fit than the others but even my tightest ones were cured by removing the chrome sticker off the AW battery.

    Quote Originally Posted by john10001 View Post
    I was trying to look at the cost and benefits of which Quark to go with over the runtime and lumens it will give me and whether I'd need to get the extra body.

    How long does the 17670 last for on max before running out? Is it more than primaries?
    you can find the runtimes of both primaries and 17670 in both the low voltage and the high voltage heads within Selfbuilt's thread called "4sevens Quark round-up review"

    Quote Originally Posted by john10001 View Post
    I have read a post from someone who said they used a 17670 or 18650 in their AA head and since then it is the only battery that works the AA no longer works. Seems strange.
    I use 17670 on the AA head as well and it still runs on AA also. The AA head is designed to take up to 4.2 volts so it's perfectly safe with 17670 and 18650, the only issue being that on AW batteries according to the graphs it runs regulated brightness until battery protection suddenly cuts it off unlike the 2x123 head which tapers down somewhat. I do remember a thread where the torch wouldn't work on AA after 18650 but the problem ended up because the tube was put on backwards and had connectivity issues due to anodising.

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    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    Quote Originally Posted by mkphc View Post
    im a little confused,
    are you saying that a 123-2 with a 17670 is more efficient than a 123 w/18650?
    Did someone say that? What do you mean by efficient?

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    Enlightened mkphc's Avatar
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    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    runs longer/brighter?

    w/o buying another body = less $ spent for a similar result
    if a 123-2 w17670 burns as long as, or very close to a 123 w18650+body then it is a cheaper form factor

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    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    Quote Originally Posted by mkphc View Post
    if a 123-2 w17670 burns as long as, or very close to a 123 w18650+body
    No, nobody is saying anything remotely like that.

    The 123² head has a buck circuit and a working voltage range of 3.0-9.0V. Normally it is driven with 2xCR123 batteries that start at 6V, so it will reduce (buck) the voltage to the proper level for the LED and regulate output normally.

    When it is driven with a single Lithium-ion battery (17670 or 18650), the fully charged battery will start near 4.2V and be regulated accordingly. As the battery drains, its voltage will decrease until it is at or below the level appropriate for the LED. At that point the regulation circuitry in the 123² head will disengage and the LED will be driven directly off the battery at whatever voltage it is capable of putting out, so light output will gradually taper off until the battery is dead.

    The other heads (123, AA, AA²) have buck and boost circuitry with a working voltage range of 0.9-4.2V. When the battery's voltage is above the proper level for the LED it will be reduced, and when it is below it will be boosted, so that power to the LED is always regulated. The light output will remain exactly the same until there isn't enough power in the battery to sustain that level, and then it will suddenly turn off.

    The comments about efficiency are referring to the buck-only 123² head getting useful light out of a single LiIon battery for a longer time than the other heads with their full regulation. Selfbuilt's comparison of the two head types on a 17670 indicates the difference on max is about 10 minutes at most.

    However, the difference in power capacity of a 18650 vs an 17670 is much greater than that. This post suggests a runtime of at least 150 minutes at max on a 2400mAh 18650, which is a difference of about 50 minutes.

    So it boils down to: either head on an 18650 is going to put out light significantly longer than either head on a 17670.
    Last edited by Quension; 02-06-2010 at 10:22 PM.

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    Enlightened mkphc's Avatar
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    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    wow thank you
    i apologize for being un informed and jerking up this thread
    i was trying to understand this comparison and side stepped it

    to conclude
    is a quark 123 w/18650 is the run time/ brightest king of quarks?

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    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    Quote Originally Posted by mkphc View Post
    wow thank you
    i apologize for being un informed and jerking up this thread
    i was trying to understand this comparison and side stepped it

    to conclude
    is a quark 123 w/18650 is the run time/ brightest king of quarks?
    You've nothing to apologise for, you just asked a question that needed clarification.

    Just to clarify, the 18650 in a 2x123 head should be no brighter than the 17670 until the 17670 starts to fall off. In the aa/123 head it should be no brighter at all until the 17670 actually goes dark (since they will both run a flat regulated line at the same voltage).

    I stand by my earlier bush mathematician's guess that the 18650 will run somewhere near one and a half times as long as the 17670 so yes, in effect it is the king but my personal view is that unless there is a specialist need for the extra run time in one sitting, the potential pitfalls of the complex design and extra length of the 18650 tube makes its value questionable over simply throwing a 17670 battery into the existing tube. I mean an extra 17670 battery is only thirteen bucks and that would give you a combined runtime greater than an 18650 and without the need for the double jointed limited edition 18650 capsule style tube.

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    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    Quote Originally Posted by JaguarDave-in-Oz View Post
    You've nothing to apologise for, you just asked a question that needed clarification.

    Just to clarify, the 18650 in a 2x123 head should be no brighter than the 17670 until the 17670 starts to fall off. In the aa/123 head it should be no brighter at all until the 17670 actually goes dark (since they will both run a flat regulated line at the same voltage).

    I stand by my earlier bush mathematician's guess that the 18650 will run somewhere near one and a half times as long as the 17670 so yes, in effect it is the king but my personal view is that unless there is a specialist need for the extra run time in one sitting, the potential pitfalls of the complex design and extra length of the 18650 tube makes its value questionable over simply throwing a 17670 battery into the existing tube. I mean an extra 17670 battery is only thirteen bucks and that would give you a combined runtime greater than an 18650 and without the need for the double jointed limited edition 18650 capsule style tube.
    Right, and the original Quark 123^2 is a bit slimmer with the original tube and runs super long anyhow. If you already have lights that use 18650 and have/use 18650s then getting the 18650 tube may make perfect sense for you. For me, I run mostly 2x123 in my lights, but seeing that the Quark 123^2 runs a bit longer than 2xcr123 with a 17650, plus gives you 10 min or so warning with decreasing light before it runs out, it was a no brainer for me as I use this @ work as a Paramedic and can't afford to just have a light go "poof" on me suddenly. If you really need to extend the runtime and don't want to invest in an 18650 and extra tube you can simply run it on high instead of turbo. It is still plenty bright on high.

    I have a AW17670 and it fits the Q123^2 like a glove. Literally. When I unscrew the tail to recharge the battery I turn the light upside down and the battery slides out slowly due to a slight vacuum. Really cool.

    I also have to say this light has been bullet proof. I've dropped it on cement tons of times, it's all dinged up, but NEVER misses a beat.
    Last edited by Xak; 02-07-2010 at 12:38 AM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    [QUOTE=slowhand23;3268893]I'm using a 123x2 head on a 18650 body with good results since I prefer declining light output vs abrupt darkness.
    /QUOTE]

    no complaints on my 2cr123 head on 18650.
    I thought it wiould be better than 2 AA, does this mean I need to buy a 2AA head next???

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    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    I just realized I went and referenced slowhand23's post in another thread when he already posted his runtime in this thread. Sorry!

    Quote Originally Posted by tsask View Post
    no complaints on my 2cr123 head on 18650.
    I thought it wiould be better than 2 AA, does this mean I need to buy a 2AA head next???
    From the graphs, the 123² head will run a bit longer than the AA² head, and will also be slighly brighter during the first 2/3 of the battery charge, but will be dimmer toward the end. The 123² head will show end of battery by fading in the last few minutes, while the AA² head will simply turn off.

    Your choice as to which is more important.

  21. #21

    Buttrock Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    Quote Originally Posted by Quension View Post

    From the graphs, the 123² head will run a bit longer than the AA² head, and will also be slighly brighter during the first 2/3 of the battery charge, but will be dimmer toward the end. The 123² head will show end of battery by fading in the last few minutes, while the AA² head will simply turn off.
    That's what I thought originally. Thanks!

    My Quark Turbo/18650 with separate cool white RGB LED head ROCKS!

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    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    Sorry if I caused confusion, I was merely saying that the 18650 won't be brighter than the 17670 until the latter dims so it's really only king of runtime, not brightness. The graphs do show a brightness difference between AA/2AA/123 and 2x123 when each is run on 17670 but neither gets initially brighter by replacing 17670 with 18650.

    That said, personally I would not place a great deal of reliance in actual use in finding extra brightness shown in some of the graphs I've seen. In real life I run both a pair of AA/AA2/123 heads and a pair of and 2x 123 heads on Li-ion and I can find absolutely no discernible difference in brightness between the two versions in the first 2/3's of the battery run despite me trying a dozen different ways to see it.

    As far as I'm concerned, in real life use, a decision will be better off based on the torches' respective behaviours as well as chosen backup battery options rather than based on any theoretical difference in brightness.
    Last edited by JaguarDave-in-Oz; 02-07-2010 at 06:44 AM.

  23. #23

    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    Quote Originally Posted by john10001 View Post
    Xak,
    Does the 17670 fit into the body of the 123², is it the same size? I was trying to look at the cost and benefits of which Quark to go with over the runtime and lumens it will give me and whether I'd need to get the extra body.

    How long does the 17670 last for on max before running out? Is it more than primaries?

    I have read a post from someone who said they used a 17670 or 18650 in their AA head and since then it is the only battery that works the AA no longer works. Seems strange.

    I'd love to know how much bigger and thicker the 18650 tube is as well to compare with the AA and 123² bodies. Would love to know how long you can go in moonlight and max for with the 18650 over 123².

    John
    See below pic for comparison of Quarks 123-2, 18650, & Nitecore D20. Quarks are the same diameter, 18650 is a inch longer at 5.45 (bezel to tailcap). 4sevens list the AA-2 length at 5.8".


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    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    Quote Originally Posted by slowhand23 View Post
    See below pic for comparison of Quarks 123-2, 18650, & Nitecore D20. Quarks are the same diameter, 18650 is a inch longer at 5.45 (bezel to tailcap). 4sevens list the AA-2 length at 5.8".

    Oh, wow. Yeah, big difference. I can see sitting down with the longer 18650 may be uncomfortable. I don't even notice the light is in my pocket with the original tube.
    I notice you have the deeper pocket clip. For work I actually prefer the head sticking out of my pocket slightly, though I may get one of those clips for my QAA.
    That 18650 must run forever! It wouldn't happen to fir 3x123 would it? If it did would it fry the light?

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    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    Quote Originally Posted by Xak View Post
    Oh, wow. Yeah, big difference. I can see sitting down with the longer 18650 may be uncomfortable. I don't even notice the light is in my pocket with the original tube.
    I notice you have the deeper pocket clip. For work I actually prefer the head sticking out of my pocket slightly, though I may get one of those clips for my QAA.
    That 18650 must run forever! It wouldn't happen to fir 3x123 would it? If it did would it fry the light?

    Note that two CR123 primaries hold more than an 18650. 3000 mAh vs ~2600 mAh
    My current favorites: Quark 123^2 Tactical, EagleTac T20C2, Thrunite TN11, Fenix P1D, ZebraLight SC51W

  26. #26

    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    So how long does the regular Quark 123 (one cell) last (minutes) with 100mAh? This way, I can figure out for myself the runtime on a 18650, since no one is posting the runtimes...

    Or... can someone just post the runtimes of the 18650?

    Please... I'm not trying to sound like a prick. But, why can't a man with a plan get some runtime love around here?

    Or, a thread link with the info in it would be fine...

    Anything, please...
    -RC
    Quark: 123 XP-G R5 Lite Flux: LF2XT - XP-G R5 upgrade Nitecore: EX-10 GDP Fenix: P2D [/FONT]CE with L2D, L1D bodies Zebralight: H30-Q5 Coleman: Exponent lantern

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    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    But the 2 123 configuration is in series. Wiring in parallel will double capacity not series. In series only doubles voltage not capacity. So the 2 123 config only has the capacity of one 123 but voltage of two 123

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    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    Quote Originally Posted by rokspydr View Post
    But the 2 123 configuration is in series. Wiring in parallel will double capacity not series. In series only doubles voltage not capacity. So the 2 123 config only has the capacity of one 123 but voltage of two 123

    Wrong. The additional capacity of a second battery does not disappear. This is a regulated light we are talking about, too. Why do you suppose the 2x123 Quark is rated for exactly double the runtime of the 1x123 at most outputs?

    Output.....................1x123.................. ..2x123
    Moonlight/0.2 lumens...15 days...................30 days
    Low/4 lumens.............2.5 days................5 days
    Medium/22 lumens.......13 hours.................20 hours
    High/85 lumens.............2.7 hours...............4.5 hours








    Hmm....that sure as hell looks like doubling the batteries also doubles the capacity.


    Like I said, you don't add a whole nother cell and have all of that capacity just vanish into thin air. Since this is a regulated light set for the same outputs on all levels but max (when comparing the 1x123 with the 2x) you get double the runtime.
    My current favorites: Quark 123^2 Tactical, EagleTac T20C2, Thrunite TN11, Fenix P1D, ZebraLight SC51W

  29. #29

    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    Quote Originally Posted by slowhand23 View Post
    See below pic for comparison of Quarks 123-2, 18650, & Nitecore D20. Quarks are the same diameter, 18650 is a inch longer at 5.45 (bezel to tailcap). 4sevens list the AA-2 length at 5.8".

    Where did you get that pocket clip that is on the Q123^2?

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    Default Re: 18650 body on a Quark

    Quote Originally Posted by FliGuyRyan View Post
    So how long does the regular Quark 123 (one cell) last (minutes) with 100mAh? This way, I can figure out for myself the runtime on a 18650, since no one is posting the runtimes...

    Or... can someone just post the runtimes of the 18650?

    Please... I'm not trying to sound like a prick. But, why can't a man with a plan get some runtime love around here?

    Or, a thread link with the info in it would be fine...

    Anything, please...
    -RC
    Take a look at post #3 in this thread.
    - Terry

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