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Thread: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

  1. #301
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    Quote Originally Posted by one2tim View Post
    Wow! Less then 400 lumen from the sf-III. Back then in the sales thread there were talk about almost 1000 lumen, and when i finally got it and compared it to some other lights i Got kinda disapointed. This explains it.

    I actually expected it. MrGman tested 2 high dollar Osram 6 die lights in the past and they were equally dissapointing. In fact, any Osram LED light me or him have tested has always been less than stellar.
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  2. #302
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    Quote Originally Posted by recDNA View Post
    BigC,

    Could you tell me the method you use when measuring lux with a luxmeter? (yes I understand measuring lumens is a different matter but you do sometimes measure lux as well).

    Do you simply place the flashlight 1 meter from a white wall, turn it on high, then aim the light meter (I assume also 1 meter away from wall?) at the spot on the wall?

    Thanks


    I don't do 1 meter readings.... I only do 5 meter readings and calculate for 1 meter. I put the Lux Meter exactly 5 meters away and since my meter captures and holds the highest value I take a minute or so untill it captures the highest lux.
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  3. #303
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superorb View Post
    Is there somewhere where you tested the 3-mode drop-ins on medium and low as well? I'm finding it impossible to hunt down a drop-in with the output numbers I'm looking for.

    The reason I don't test for Med or Low is because only the high numbers are the exagarated lumens and for some reason even those DX lights are honest when they advertise the low and med.

    When you see a light advertise Med and Low lumens they pretty much are honest there because underdriven a particular LED will be almost perfect paper spec lumens and with low output comes less heat. With Less heat the lumens stay put, unlike the high modes where it drops. In a nutshell this is why I don't test for low or med.

    bigC
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  4. #304
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    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchelis View Post
    The reason I don't test for Med or Low is because only the high numbers are the exagarated lumens and for some reason even those DX lights are honest when they advertise the low and med.

    When you see a light advertise Med and Low lumens they pretty much are honest there because underdriven a particular LED will be almost perfect paper spec lumens and with low output comes less heat. With Less heat the lumens stay put, unlike the high modes where it drops. In a nutshell this is why I don't test for low or med.

    bigC
    I understand that, but usually I can't even find output numbers for med/low modes on P60 drop-ins, they only mention the max on high.
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  5. #305

    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    Hey BigC. This is an amazing resource. Have you asked the mods to make it a sticky?

  6. #306
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    Quote Originally Posted by recDNA View Post
    Hey BigC. This is an amazing resource. Have you asked the mods to make it a sticky?
    Not yet,

    I will ask as soon as I get 100 samples tested
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  7. #307
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    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    Hey bigchelis this is great stuff please keep up the great work, any chance you will get a chance to test the E2DL 200lm version just by ceiling bounce I guess it is around 240-250 but would love some real data.

    I love that E2L at 110 lumens and keeping it throughout the 4min test and I always assumed the stock U2 to be around 140 looks like I was close.

    Come to think about it a stock E1B on primary would be cool to, sorry to ask to increase your workload if it's even possible you can get these to test but you do such a great job and this should for sure be a sticky, its classic already.
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  8. #308

    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchelis View Post
    Not yet,

    I will ask as soon as I get 100 samples tested
    Well if you are looking for things to get you there I'd be curious to see some of the exact same measurements you did with the L2 with special coated lens compared to the stock lens that comes with the L2.

    Why do you think the Malkoff M30 with the little VME twistie you tested with one 16340 produced more lumens than the same Malkoff drop in in a conventional host?

  9. #309
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    Quote Originally Posted by recDNA View Post
    Well if you are looking for things to get you there I'd be curious to see some of the exact same measurements you did with the L2 with special coated lens compared to the stock lens that comes with the L2.

    Why do you think the Malkoff M30 with the little VME twistie you tested with one 16340 produced more lumens than the same Malkoff drop in in a conventional host?

    It did about the same in the 6P vs. the Malkoff Twistie. It only did bad in the UBH E-series hosts due to the lower current via the dummy cell in place plus the gray HA E-series clickie. I later ran the same test on the UBH with the same 17670 cell and an E1b tail cap and the lumens went up about 100.


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  10. #310
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    The M30 I have I realized or learned 2 important things.
    • The E-series clikie was doing something that the OTF lumens dropped 100ish..
    • 2nd using long dummy cells like the 17670 + IMR 16340 = less current at the tail.
    Now, don't ask me why but when I swaped the tailcap for an E1b and used only 1 CR123 dummy spacer both the current at the tail and the lumens were closer to 300 like it is with the 6P and Twistie by Malkof.

    bigC
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  11. #311
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    Here are a couple more. I got the new Nailbender XP-E R3 drop-in and the new Thrunite XP-G R5 drop-in with 1.5A claimed. It does 1.35A at the tail with a single cell so not sure if it hits the 1.5A at the LED, but the OTF lumens show good things.

    Thrunite is back with a vengeance.

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  12. #312

    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    How about with 1 X IMR18650? I don't like using an extender.

  13. #313
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    Quote Originally Posted by recDNA View Post
    How about with 1 X IMR18650? I don't like using an extender.



    I have the results as I tested it with many cell configurations and topping them off after each test takes a while. I also have a 2nd sample to test to make it complete.

    Updates hopefully tonight.

    bigC
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  14. #314

    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    big C tell us more about the thrunite with the 1.5 amp driver. Waht's its full voltage rating and where can we get that. Thanks, and keep up the good work but don't melt down that sphere testing them stinkin incans. G.

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    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    I thought that with Anto's 1.4A XPG P60, running this with CR123a's wouldn't be recommended.

    Waiting on an answer/reply but if it turns out not so (logic would tell me it is so) then this looks like a good deal!

    In that case if there's an easy aftermarket-Optic kit (or any way to increase throw) please let me know!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by FlashCrazy View Post
    The input voltage range is 2.7-9 volts. However, to get full output you need to use 2 x CR123a or 2 x RCR123 batteries. With a single 18650, the output will be down about 25-30% and will not be regulated.
    ThruNite will soon release a version that will give full output on a single 18650, but will have a max allowed voltage of 4.2V. This version will first be available in the 3 mode option.
    Does the above mean BigChelis has the above noted version or that the one tested isn't really running at full output?

  16. #316
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    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrGman View Post
    big C tell us more about the thrunite with the 1.5 amp driver. Waht's its full voltage rating and where can we get that. Thanks, and keep up the good work but don't melt down that sphere testing them stinkin incans. G.
    Flashlight Connection sells the Dereelight/Thrunite drop-ins. They're a vendor here.
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  17. #317

    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superorb View Post
    Flashlight Connection sells the Dereelight/Thrunite drop-ins. They're a vendor here.

    I found it there. so the question is does the Thrunite XPG pill fit into the Dereelight V3 flashlight that takes the Dereelight XPG? Or is it incompatible. The dereelight XPG for the V3 is 1.2 amps. would be interesting to run this and keep the Dereelight XPG for back up. ???

    Thanks big C.

  18. #318
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    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    In Jay's thread on the Thrunite XP-G 1.5A he mentioned it would not be full bright running on one Li-ion cell.
    Looks like it is doing pretty well in these test.

  19. #319

    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    Jose, I think we need to find a better way of measuring lux. The inverse square law is designed to work in a theoretical world with an infinitely small point source, not real-world physics with a large source. The more focused the thrower and larger the reflector\less collimation of the beam the farther off the lux readings will be. Additionally, focusing issues with beam crossing and diverging light patterns could be messing up the results. All of those are helped with 5 meter readings instead of 1 meter (hence why they better mirrior real-world objective results) but even a 5 meter reading could be off by a significant amount (10%+). The most obvious way to increase accuracy would be by measuring lux from a farther distance, but ambient light issues would start to cloud the accuracy of results. It may be that we need to adjust lux readings based on the ratio of light source diameter vs. hotspot diameter at, say, 10 meters. We would also have to add an exception for lights with over-focused beams with reverse-divergent collimation. The most accurate possible method would be to measure the lux at the intended target distance and adjust backwords to a 1m reading, but depending on the accuracy of your meter and availibility of a large, open, dark area, that may be difficult or impossible.

    Just a few thoughts I figured I'd throw out.

    Also, do you feel like testing an AKOray K-106? It's 2.2 oz including battery, so I can send it across the country for less then a dollar. I'm betting it makes 155-160 OTF. My Quark MiNi 123 with RCRs is awesome, so I won't miss the light while your testing, and shipping is dirt cheap (<$2 both ways) so I can pick up the tab. Lux readings would be nice as well, it seems to be a reasonably impressive thrower.
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  20. #320
    Flashaholic* 276's Avatar
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    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrGman View Post
    I found it there. so the question is does the Thrunite XPG pill fit into the Dereelight V3 flashlight that takes the Dereelight XPG? Or is it incompatible. The dereelight XPG for the V3 is 1.2 amps. would be interesting to run this and keep the Dereelight XPG for back up. ???

    Thanks big C.
    I don't have one of the new Thrunite XPG drop-in's but i do have the older 3- mode and it does work in my XPG DBS. The threads on the pills are a little different. The pill screws almost all the way in in the DBS but i still have the same beam.
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  21. #321
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    Todd from Illuminationgear.com sent me 2 Thrunite XP-G R5 1.5A versions for testing. They are here:
    http://www.illuminationgear.com/145071.html

    They are suppose to be 1.5A, but I have found with a single cell they fall short of 1.5A at the tail. The OTF lumens however are really impressive.

    The voltage is 2.7v~9v, but with a single cell li-on they do not run at full output. I know they are suppose to, but they don't.

    I will post all my results shortly.
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  22. #322
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    I would like to thank Todd from illuminationgear.com for sending me these 2 Thrunite samples. Todd assured me he didn't cherry pick them too.


    I don't know if the current at the LED is 1.5A. I also noticed with primaries CR123/RCR 123 type the output was much much less with both the single mode and 3 mode Thrunite drop-ins. This leads me to conclude that the driver works best at 8V input +. Maybe JustinCase can explain this better.




    Note: With a single AW 2600mAh 18650 the light would blink/flash here and there. The 3 mode with primaries and a single AW 2600mAh made that humm Noise. It is actually a loud hummming noise that I am pretty sure we all have heard before.
    Last edited by bigchelis; 03-29-2010 at 01:35 AM.
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  23. #323
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    The XP-G R5's by Thrunite are now almost 400 real out the front lumens. I still have another amazing light to talk about. The Quark AA XP-G R5 by 4Sevens. MrGman tested it in the past with NiMH AA cell, but I had to re-test it with li-on 14500.

    Here is what MrGman tested in the past:
    Quark AA mini_High___________68__turn-on_____________1AA Tenergy NiMH___________________________,
    Quark AA mini_High___________65__60 sec_____________1AA Tenergy NiMH___________________________,

    Quark AA mini_High___________64__120 sec____________1AA Tenergy NiMH___________________________,
    Quark AA mini_Med___________20__turn-on_____________1AA Tenergy NiMH___________________________,
    Quark AA mini_Low,____________2.3__turn-on____________1AA Tenergy NiMH___________________________,





    Here is 300 plus real lumens from a Keychain light

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  24. #324
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    I also tested the ITP collection of XP-E R2 lights. They are new and offer a tiny, but intense hotspot with those smooth reflectors


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  25. #325
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    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    Quote Originally Posted by daimleramg View Post
    I would like to see the results too, but I wonder if it will still perform with one 18650 @4.2V or will it need atleast 6V to achieve max output? Reason I'm bringing this up is because Solarforce's drivers that allow 2 or more li-ion cells seem to behave that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchelis View Post
    I have a sample comming soon

    I expected it won't run at full power with only one cell, this seems common with broad voltage drivers. I hope there will be a 4.2V max version, that way we can get the same brightness for us guys that like single cell hosts.

  26. #326
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    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    Quote Originally Posted by 357mag1 View Post
    In Jay's thread on the Thrunite XP-G 1.5A he mentioned it would not be full bright running on one Li-ion cell.
    Looks like it is doing pretty well in these test.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigchelis View Post
    Todd from Illuminationgear.com sent me 2 Thrunite XP-G R5 1.5A versions for testing. They are here:
    http://www.illuminationgear.com/145071.html

    They are suppose to be 1.5A, but I have found with a single cell they fall short of 1.5A at the tail. The OTF lumens however are really impressive.

    The voltage is 2.7v~9v, but with a single cell li-on they do not run at full output. I know they are suppose to, but they don't.

    I will post all my results shortly.
    There's a 2.7-4.2v Drop-in made for 1x18650 coming out later this week that will be full output, I can't wait!!
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  27. #327

    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchelis View Post
    I don't do 1 meter readings.... I only do 5 meter readings and calculate for 1 meter. I put the Lux Meter exactly 5 meters away and since my meter captures and holds the highest value I take a minute or so untill it captures the highest lux.
    So you take the lux figure from 5 meters and multiply it by 25?

  28. #328

    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchelis View Post
    The XP-G R5's by Thrunite are now almost 400 real out the front lumens. I still have another amazing light to talk about. The Quark AA XP-G R5 by 4Sevens. MrGman tested it in the past with NiMH AA cell, but I had to re-test it with li-on 14500.

    Here is what MrGman tested in the past:
    Quark AA mini_High___________68__turn-on_____________1AA Tenergy NiMH___________________________,
    Quark AA mini_High___________65__60 sec_____________1AA Tenergy NiMH___________________________,
    Quark AA mini_High___________64__120 sec____________1AA Tenergy NiMH___________________________,
    Quark AA mini_Med___________20__turn-on_____________1AA Tenergy NiMH___________________________,
    Quark AA mini_Low,____________2.3__turn-on____________1AA Tenergy NiMH___________________________,





    Here is 300 plus real lumens from a Keychain light

    300 lumens from the AA Mini? I thought I remembered it being much less with the Mini 123 using an IMR123? Shouldn't that be even brighter than a 14500?

  29. #329

    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    I agree with the RCR123 vs 14500. It's hard to believe the 123 is barely making 200 OTF while the 14500 does 323. My 123 draws 1.31A, the AA would have to be pushing 2A to make that much OTF. That's well above the discharge limit for 14500 LiPo cells, and seems like it would burn up an XPG in that small of a host.

    Is it possible you got a high vF or faulty 123? Any tailcap readings on the 14500? It seems hard to believe that the lights could vary so wildly - the batteries are the same capacity with similar discharge curves.
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  30. #330
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.

    Quote Originally Posted by recDNA View Post
    300 lumens from the AA Mini? I thought I remembered it being much less with the Mini 123 using an IMR123? Shouldn't that be even brighter than a 14500?

    It should, but remember with a CR123 Mini it is designed for li-on or primaries.....These AA mini's are designed for a much broader voltage input and my guess is it is going direct drive, which is why its sooo bright and hot to the tough.
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