Surefire Ultra?

ToddM

Enlightened
Joined
Mar 11, 2001
Messages
251
Location
NV
Some interesting emails about a new Surefire on a bicycle light email list actually From Mr. Willie Hunt who it would seem is now working for surefire. He has quite a reputation with light electronics and has made many good posts over the years. Just curious if anyone had a chance to view the ultra at the shot show and what they thought of it.

Just go to:

http://topica.com/lists/bikecurrent/read

and go back one or two 20 topic pages and you will find a few posts about the ultra. There is also quite a few other surefire topics on the list as well. Don't have to register or sign up to read them.

I had pasted it here, but I realize that cuting and pasting info can be frowned on, even if it's public domain so those that want to read about it can simply go to topica.com's site and do so.
 

McGizmo

Flashaholic
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
17,290
Location
Maui
ToddM,

I assume EDIT: Incorrectly as it turns out, oops. Sorry!

- Don
 

ToddM

Enlightened
Joined
Mar 11, 2001
Messages
251
Location
NV
editied cause it no longer matters /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

Klaus

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 6, 2001
Messages
1,998
Location
Germany
The SF ULTRA to me sounds like being exactly what the doctor ordered ! A dimmable 5 Watter - /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Why did nobody report this back from SHOT 2003 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twak.gif

I still was under the impression (somewhat) that our little CPF community isn´t willingly hold dumb by those getting all the goodies - seems so now - but seeing things on a public show and NOT reporting on it would be a new LOW in my book. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

We´ll see

Klaus
 

Mr Ted Bear

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 20, 2001
Messages
1,766
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Klaus

Have you considered that some things are NOT "intended for publication" or for discussion in public without the express permission of the vendor? You know... company trade secrets and that kind of thing
 

FlashlightOCD

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
931
Location
Central FL, USA
If it was presented at a public trade show [SHOT 2003] as Klaus assumed, I would not think it would fall in the category of company trade secrets.

Edit: Unless they are requiring attendee's to sign non-disclosure agreements.
 

Klaus

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 6, 2001
Messages
1,998
Location
Germany
[ QUOTE ]
FlashlightOCD said:
If it was presented at a public trade show [SHOT 2003] as Klaus assumed, I would not think it would fall in the category of company trade secrets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Second that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

While I agree that "secrets" are just that and my post mostly wasn´t whining that NDAs or private equivalents don´t get breached - but it makes me snicker on a pretty regular bases when people who AFAIR first of all are getting the goodies BECAUSE they got exposed to SF through this very forum now seem to get their personal little satisfaction through hinting at what they know, believe to know and maybe are just made to believe and then just tease this forum - this to me is just stupid and childish - but as always - just my 2 €cents and to each his own.

Klaus
 

Blikbok

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 10, 2002
Messages
898
If people are under NDA, they shouldn't tease or hint. I've worked under HEAVY NDA's, ones that required me to get legal counsel before signing, and even letting people know that I was under an NDA and it's scope would have been enough bad faith to loose my position, yet not strictly be breach of contract.

Secondly, it's not nice to tease /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

Klaus

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 6, 2001
Messages
1,998
Location
Germany
I think it will be interesting to see how the LS5 from PG´s ARC company will compare to this "whatever the name will be" SF Ultra part - both driven by 2x123 cells, dimmable 5W LS with multiple selectable brightness levels and reflector driven.

Nice to have been right all along as I had been posting before SHOT that this "L2" is what I was expecting from Surefire .... one does not need to have special connection for this I think - just plain good old common sense - and why would SF having created the "L1" already won´t go that road for a 5W as well where it does make so much more sense.

Klaus
 

McGizmo

Flashaholic
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
17,290
Location
Maui
If I may throw in my two cents.

I think it is safe for me to say that SF *does* have an active R&D department and as a result there is a myriad of possibilities explored and prototypes are made, evaluated and a "product line" emerges. Much of what is proto'ed doesn't make it to production. Those who recall PK's website have a sense of the depth of R&D and ideas SF has taken in the past in looking at all options.

SF took a heavy hit in criticism for vapor ware as a result of their 2002 catalog and much of this criticism was here on the CPF. It seems clear by their (SF) actions if not words that they have chosen to keep their R&D close to their belts to the extent that they are not pre announcing their intents of new product offerings. I suspect that this is partly due to consideration of competition in a free market; especially with off shore manufacturers who are more than willing to copy anything they have seen, and partly due to the vapor ware stigma.

Many have even stated here on CPF that they don't want to know about something unless they can buy it. There is not an ice cubes chance in He** that SF could please everyone with their disclosure of R&D and new product considerations and it seems to me that they have chosen to go about their business with "no comment".

Some have stated that SF doesn't give a hoot about CPF or what's said and this is evidenced by their lack of participation here. I propose that SF is not indifferent to the thoughts and comments made on a forum based on the love and exploration of illumination tools. As a public forum consisting of some members who understand the nature of the beast in terms of business and market as well as many who haven't a clue as to how business works, I propose that SF as well as most of the other flashlight manufacturers has chosen not to actively participate in public discourse of their business intents.

I state the above as mostly my opinion and not fact. I have seen some of the stuff SF has in R&D and am blown away with the diversity and features I have seen. This was shared in confidence and I have no intent of breaching that confidence. It's hard to keep a secret among friends but this is what one is expected to do on such an occasion.

Klaus mentions hints and teases and I agree that this is childish in a way. However there are other dynamics in play when someone is in the know and not in a position to "spill the beans". As a for instance, I knew a bit ahead of time that the KL4 would be introduced as a complete unit; the L4. When I would see a post where someone was asking for advice such as should they buy an E2e now so they could have a host for the KL4 when it came out, my immediate thought was NO! I can recall on at least one occasion that I think I suggested that someone hold off buying an E2e. I didn't say why and my comments likely came off as strange or hints to having inside information. If you know someone is about to make a likely mistake but know this due to privileged information, do you stand by quietly?

Perhaps it helps to consider that beyond those of us who are active here and feel that we are a community who can be trusted, there are lurkers who have their own agenda and will glean whatever they can from our "open" discourse and use it for their own gain with no intent of returning any favors or honoring any IP that is not legally protected.

I'm pretty sure I had a point in there somewhere but if eludes you as it does me now, forgive this ramble....

- Don
 

Klaus

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 6, 2001
Messages
1,998
Location
Germany
Don,

I´m not in disagreement with you whatsoever - and I never saw any posts from you I remotely would consider childish or teasing or whatever - my apologies to you and "Ted Bear" if he got offended as well. There IS a difference in posts trying to help or educate and behaviour like I was talking about.

There is a thin line between giving competitors some advantages in showing stuff early and keeping the public interested and your company in the front light.

But a dimmable / selectable brightness 5 Watter is not something not thought about before, really /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Klaus
 

treek13

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
May 11, 2002
Messages
1,325
Location
West Coast of Michigan
Don, your post makes a lot of sense to me.

I don't think anyone on CPF should blame anyone else for not betraying a confidence.

If a friend shares something with you in confidence, then in my opinion you would be a lousy friend to break that confidence just to please other friends/aquaintances. Whether or not there is a NDA is irrelevant in this case, friends don't do that to each other.

On a completely uninformed aside, Willie Hunt says they showed a prototype at the SHOT show not that it was on public display. They very well may have only shown it to a select few that they trusted to keep quiet.

Pat
 

John N

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 12, 2001
Messages
2,201
Location
Seattle
I think the most significaint thing about how dimable lights stack up against each other is the user interface. The UI in most dimable lights stink IMO. Push a single button various numbers of times and/or lengths?! Yuk!

When I read Willie's comments (I hope he doesn't get baked over this) I envisioned a ring on the bezel that you just dial to the brightness you want with a seperate on-off switch.

This sounds very intuitive to me and while I understand the difficulties of making something like this manufacturable, cost effective, rugged enough and water-resistaint, I don't know why we don't have dimmable lights with good UIs already.

I certainly hope this is the case and SF produces it. I for one will be eager to get one.

-john
 

Badbeams3

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 28, 2000
Messages
4,389
[ QUOTE ]
Klaus said:
I think it will be interesting to see how the LS5 from PG´s ARC company will compare to this "whatever the name will be" SF Ultra part - both driven by 2x123 cells, dimmable 5W LS with multiple selectable brightness levels and reflector driven.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, they are going to be going head to head. The Surefire runs from 50ma to 5 watts (thats what I read). While the Arc will only run up to 3 watts???? Like Klaus said, it will be interesting (maybe a little pice war?)

I am surprised to dicover this info on a bike forum...maybe our CPF detectives need a pay cut? Come to think of it where is Al? If Surfire has any plans he ought to know about them.
 

paulr

Flashaholic
Joined
Mar 29, 2003
Messages
10,832
In the LS4 or LS5 thread, PG mentioned that the LS5 will normally run at 3 watts continuous, but it will have a "boost" mode where it can run at around 6 watts for short periods. That sounds like a good scheme to me.
 

McGizmo

Flashaholic
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
17,290
Location
Maui
Klaus,

Thanks for the comment and I didn't take your post personally per se but I am sensitive to being in a position on occasion where I don't know what the correct path to take is in terms of making vague comments based on privilged information.

Regarding a multi level of luminous output from a LED or even incandescent light source, I think it's a safe bet that SF has considered and made proto's of combinations even we haven't considered. I think one of their biggest problems is that they literally can design and build any combination or construct based both on components currently available as well as engineering samples of tomorrows components. They have way too many choices and this technology is in such a rapid state of change that the mind is boggled. With no limits, I would expect that it is easy to loose focus.

One final comment on topic; what I want in a 5W, SF can make and I've seen it. I just hope that they decide to produce it! I wish it were something I could make myself for I surely would........

- Don
 
Top