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Thread: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

  1. #31

    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    ti-force,

    What is the red POS wire coming from the 4 stack soldered to on the SB driver?

    Nice job btw.
    In Him (Jesus Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
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  2. #32
    Flashaholic* TorchBoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    It looks like it connects to the Vdd pin of one of the AMC7135s on the SB board. That way all the AMCs will be working in parallel.
    No, a torch does not always mean flames.
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  3. #33
    Flashaholic* ti-force's Avatar
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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    Quote Originally Posted by vestureofblood View Post
    ti-force,

    What is the red POS wire coming from the 4 stack soldered to on the SB driver?

    Nice job btw.
    Quote Originally Posted by TorchBoy View Post
    It looks like it connects to the Vdd pin of one of the AMC7135s on the SB board. That way all the AMCs will be working in parallel.



    That's correct. It's hard to see with the wires soldered in place, so I took a picture of an AMC7135 driver and a Shiningbeam driver beside each other and made sort-of a diagram:











  4. #34
    Flashaholic* ti-force's Avatar
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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    Also, I should note that when soldering to the outside ring (GND), make sure the GND doesn't come in contact with any of the little stars on the Shiningbeam board. If you do this, you could inadvertently create a strobe mode. Don't ask me how I know.............

    Casey
    Last edited by ti-force; 02-19-2010 at 07:18 AM.

  5. #35

    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    Thanks ti-force,

    Those are very clear pictures and diagrams too. What is the reason for removing the pins in the center of the board an replacing it with solder?

    Also it seems like I read somewhere that the chips on the slave board need to have the same numbers printed on them or it will not work. Do you know if this is correct? If so where did you order the slaves from?
    Last edited by vestureofblood; 02-19-2010 at 11:55 AM.
    In Him (Jesus Christ) was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
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  6. #36
    Flashaholic* ti-force's Avatar
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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    Quote Originally Posted by vestureofblood View Post
    Thanks ti-force,

    Those are very clear pictures and diagrams too. What is the reason for removing the pins in the center of the board an replacing it with solder?

    Also it seems like I read somewhere that the chips on the slave board need to have the same numbers printed on them or it will not work. Do you know if this is correct? If so where did you order the slaves from?

    All of the AMC7135 boards that I have, either have diodes or surface mount resistors which drop voltage. I don't know how much they actually drop the voltage, but I don't see any need to drop the voltage at all, so I do away with them. You can see in the picture (i couldn't quite get them all in the same picture, so I had to drag the other 2 over) that I have 3 different variants. One type has 2 diodes, another type has only 1 diode and the last type has surface mount resistors. The boards with the surface mount resistors are the newest boards that I've purchased, so that's probably what they all come with now.






    Here's a picture of an AMC7135 that I did about a year or so ago; you can see the wire in the center better on this one.







    Anyway, when I remove either the diodes or the resistors, that breaks the Vdd circuit on the boards, so I solder a wire across to re-connect the circuit. Now, you may already know this information, but I'm going to try and explain this so that anyone who doesn't understand this, will know what I'm doing. Basically all your doing is connecting each leg of the 7135 chip, with the same leg on all the other 7135 chips. Scroll up and look at the picture above this writing or you can look at the picture below this writing. Now, looking at that picture, focus on the 7135 chip on the bottom right side of the board. You should see 3 legs coming out of the 7135 chip and facing towards the center of the board. The bottom leg is the Vdd or battery positive/led positive, the center leg is the ground and the top leg is the LED negative. What you want to do is make sure that all of the Vdd legs are connected together, all of the ground legs are connected together and all of the LED negatives are connected together.


    The AMC7135 board in the picture below didn't require a wire across the center because the circuit is a little bit different than the other boards. You can see the light green colored path on the board (trace) that runs from each LED negative on every 7135 chip. That's how the connection is made inside the board. Maybe this makes sense. Also, I always check each circuit with my DMM before I supply power to the board; just to make sure I don't have any shorts and to make sure everything is connected together.




    Last edited by ti-force; 03-28-2010 at 07:01 AM.

  7. #37
    Flashaholic* ti-force's Avatar
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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    Almost forgot about the 7135 chips with different numbers on them. I have heard of someone having trouble with certain numbers. I have a Darktort that's been modded with an MC-E emitter and Shiningbeam driver that I added an additional 7135 chip to and it works fine. All of the chips on that board, including the chip I added have these numbers at the top of the chip: L7135, but all of the chips that came on the Shiningbeam board have different bottom number than the chip that I added.

    The bottom number on the Shiningbeam chips is:0704, but the bottom number on the chip I added is:0651, so I know those will work together. Also, it seems like I have, or had a board that actually came from the manufacturer with varying bottom numbers on the 7135's. I don't really know what the bottom numbers mean, maybe someone in the know can chime in and clear this up.
    Last edited by ti-force; 02-19-2010 at 04:14 PM.

  8. #38

    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    Quote Originally Posted by ti-force View Post
    All of the AMC7135 boards that I have, either have diodes or surface mount resistors which drop voltage. I don't know how much they actually drop the voltage, but I don't see any need to drop the voltage at all, so I do away with them. You can see in the picture (i couldn't quite get them all in the same picture, so I had to drag the other 2 over) that I have 3 different variants. One type has 2 diodes, another type has only 1 diode and the last type has surface mount resistors. The boards with the surface mount resistors are the newest boards that I've purchased, so that's probably what they all come with now.
    Anyway, when I remove either the diodes or the resistors, that breaks the Vdd circuit on the boards, so I solder a wire across to re-connect the circuit.
    Ok, so by removing this diode, and replacing it with wire, you get higher voltage to the led.

    Quote Originally Posted by ti-force View Post
    Now, you may already know this information, but I'm going to try and explain this so that anyone who doesn't understand this, will know what I'm doing. Basically all your doing is connecting each leg of the 7135 chip, with the same leg on all the other 7135 chips. Scroll back up a couple of posts and look at the Shiningbeam picture again. The picture where you can see the spring in the center of the board. Now, looking at that picture focus on the 7135 chip on the bottom right side of the board. You should see 3 legs coming out of the 7135 chip and facing towards the spring. The bottom leg is the Vdd or battery positive, the center leg is the ground and the top leg is the LED negative. What you want to do is make sure that all of the Vdd legs are connected together, all of the ground legs are connected together and all of the LED negatives are connected together.
    WOW. You could not possible even know how much this helps me. I have been beating myself to death trying to truly understand the current path for this type of driver. I was assuming one very fatal thing. I thought that the center leg was the ground or bat neg in, and that BOTH of the pins on the left and right were NEG OUT. So you can imagine what a time I have been having trying to figure this out. That has got to be the most valuable nugget I have found on this driver in a year. I have been able to use these drivers a lot, but I prefer to truly understand what I am doing rather than just copying.

    One more question if you dont mind... Where does the control board fit into the equasion? Does the current flow through the chips then to the control board, or does the control board come into play after the current flows through the led?


    Super thanks again.
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  9. #39
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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    These are the only places I know of for ordering the AMC7135 boards. They are both priced about the same and they're both in China, so it could take 2 weeks or 2 months to get to you if you live in the U.S. I waited on some for a few months one time. They were on backorder, but I'm not sure if they forgot about me or what. They finally showed up in the mail one day and I had to scratch my head to even remember where they came from.

    http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1886

    or

    http://kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=6653

    You can get 1.4A boards (1400ma) or 1A boards (1050ma). I always get the 1.4A boards because all you have to do is remove 1 of the 7135 chips if you want to drop the current to 1A. That's how I end up with spare 7135 chips. It's also easy to solder the 7135 back on the board if you need to.

    Casey

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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    Quote Originally Posted by vestureofblood View Post
    Ok, so by removing this diode, and replacing it with wire, you get higher voltage to the led.



    WOW. You could not possible even know how much this helps me. I have been beating myself to death trying to truly understand the current path for this type of driver. I was assuming one very fatal thing. I thought that the center leg was the ground or bat neg in, and that BOTH of the pins on the left and right were NEG OUT. So you can imagine what a time I have been having trying to figure this out. That has got to be the most valuable nugget I have found on this driver in a year. I have been able to use these drivers a lot, but I prefer to truly understand what I am doing rather than just copying.

    One more question if you dont mind... Where does the control board fit into the equasion? Does the current flow through the chips then to the control board, or does the control board come into play after the current flows through the led?


    Super thanks again.
    Yeah, you want to eliminate as much voltage loss and resistance as possible with these drivers. Fellow CPF members Justin Case and Linger taught me that one.


    The ATMEL chip on the shining beam or any other multimode board is what controls the 7135's. As long as you run the battery positive and battery negative into the multimode board first and then wire the slave sandwich or additional boards to the multimode board, it will control all of the 7135's.

    These guys can explain it better than I can:

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...6&postcount=29

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...4&postcount=26
    Last edited by ti-force; 02-25-2010 at 05:11 AM.

  11. #41
    Flashaholic* TorchBoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    Quote Originally Posted by ti-force View Post
    One type has 2 diodes, another type has only 1 diode and the last type has surface mount resistors. The boards with the surface mount resistors are the newest boards that I've purchased, so that's probably what they all come with now.
    You'll find they're surface mount diodes, not resistors. All those little packages look the same, but in this case the arrowhead on them shows which way around the diode works.

    There are different models of AMC7135 chip, with outputs that vary from ~300 mA to ~380 mA. It may be that the bottom number has something to do with that. I don't know.

    Thanks for the extra pics and explanations.
    Last edited by TorchBoy; 02-19-2010 at 03:27 PM. Reason: "with outputs" not "without outputs"
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  12. #42
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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    Quote Originally Posted by TorchBoy View Post
    You'll find they're surface mount diodes, not resistors. All those little packages look the same, but in this case the arrowhead on them shows which way around the diode works.

    There are different models of AMC7135 chip, without outputs that vary from ~300 mA to ~380 mA. It may be that the bottom number has something to do with that. I don't know.

    Thanks for the extra pics and explanations.

    Thanks for the info, I didn't know they made surface mount diodes. Like you said, they're all so small and look about the same.


    BTW, thanks for putting that led driver list together; it's a pile of information.
    Last edited by ti-force; 02-21-2010 at 11:54 AM.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    Anyone looking for information on drivers should go to CPF member TorchBoys site at

    http://www.videofoundry.co.nz/ianman...driverlist.php

    There's a HUGE amount of information here and a VERY good write up at the bottom of the page about AMC7135 drivers. I recommend to anyone who's reading this to try and learn about the AMC7135 drivers, go to the above link and scroll all the way to the botton for the 7135 info. Of course, check out all the other info on the way down.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    FWIW there's a quicklink/jump link to it too: http://www.videofoundry.co.nz/ianman...st.php#AMC7135 (and then click to expand).
    No, a torch does not always mean flames.
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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    Quote Originally Posted by TorchBoy View Post
    That is indeed the spec of the chip, but did you (and others) notice the "Reverse-polarity protection prevents wrongly installed batteries from damaging the circuit" claim? That means there's a diode on the Vdd pin which will drop ~0.6 V, so the driver as a whole will actually have a 3.3-6.6 V range. As far as heat goes the thermal protection will likely cut in well under 6.6 V.
    Hey TorchBoy as a rule I have always removed the diode(s) from my non PWM AMC7135 boards. I wanted to say that if you push these AMC7135 boards above 6.0 volts you are really asking for trouble. They will generate allot of heat and besides the efficiency at 6.0 volts is close to 60% where as at 4.0 volts it is 90%+. I usually use them with 3 D sized NiMHs. I have been playing with a stacked AMC7135 board circuit with 4 x NiMHs (4.8v - 5.6v) to drive a SST-90. When you suggested in your post that by removing the diode that upper range was 6.6 volts I was concerned that someone will try and drive these boards with two LiFePO4 lithium cells in series. Just wanted to reiterate drive these boards with 3 to 4 NiMH cells in series or 3.7 volt lithium cells in parallel. Happy Mods!

  16. #46
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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    Thanks Fulgeo. I'll clearly state (again) that whatever voltage the board as a whole (not just the driver chips) might be able to cope with, the AMC7135 chips might not be able to cope with the heat from dropping all those extra volts.

    However, there are ways to reduce the power dissipated by the AMC7135s, such as placing a resistor between battery positive and LED positive. All the excess volts still need to be dropped, but if some of the power gets dissipated by the resistor instead of the AMC7135s then the AMC7135s will run a little cooler. That does nothing to help driver efficiency, but that's not always a concern.

    BTW, I did NOT say (in post 11) that removing the diode will give an upper working limit of 6.6 V. It's including the diode that gives that extra 0.6 V.
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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    Quote Originally Posted by TorchBoy View Post
    BTW, I did NOT say (in post 11) that removing the diode will give an upper working limit of 6.6 V. It's including the diode that gives that extra 0.6 V.

    My apologies TorchBoy I misinterpreted what you said. What happened is when I read "an upper working limit of 6.6 volts" I know from playing with the AMC7135 boards they are at their best efficiency, reliability and heat well under 6.0 volts. I have built 14 mods to date using the AMC7135 boards. I run them usually with 3 D NiMH cells and they work great. I have run them with 4 NiMH cells and they work but they do generate some heat. I have a 3 D SSC P7 mod driven at 2.8 amps by two stacked 1.4 amp AMC7135 boards that I have over 100 hours on. It is very reliable so far. I used it to read by.

    TorchBoy have you built a mod using the AMC7135 boards well heatsinked at 6.0 volts or above for duration? I have test benched it and I get so much heat that I do not trust it enough for a build. I figure it will be unreliable. I have not proven this thou. Also I want to say that I ask this question with no accusatory air. I have respect for you and appreciate your input.

  18. #48
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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    Quote Originally Posted by Fulgeo View Post
    I know from playing with the AMC7135 boards they are at their best efficiency, reliability and heat well under 6.0 volts.
    All true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fulgeo View Post
    TorchBoy have you built a mod using the AMC7135 boards well heatsinked at 6.0 volts or above for duration?
    Nope! Like you I normally use 3x AA (or AAA) NiMH, since there's really no point to go with higher voltage with the Vf of the LEDs I use them with. All I'd get is extra heat. So I've never pushed an AMC7135 to its limit to see if I can get it to slide off the board.

    For 4x AA NiMH there are buck boards that suit very nicely, and their better efficiency at those voltages is preferred for my caving uses, what with runtime and all.
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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    Torchboy,

    My first time looking at your site, looks good...lots of good info there.

    Tiforce,

    If you need any help with spacers or anything let me know I can blast some out for you, or even make the entire thing for you. I have made a few so it would not be much trouble.

    Drew

  20. #50
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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    Quote Originally Posted by Mettee View Post
    Tiforce,

    If you need any help with spacers or anything let me know I can blast some out for you, or even make the entire thing for you. I have made a few so it would not be much trouble.

    Drew
    Drew,

    Thank you very much for the kind offer. I may need to call on you if I can't get this thing done. What material do you normally use for the non conductive spacers?

    Casey

  21. #51
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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    Delrin, with a brass, copper, or Al plug, Then I either solder to the copper or I use a small set screw to hold the wire. If I was making this pack I would use hobby noodle wire in as heavy a gauge as I could.

    I have been trying to figure out the best way to load batteries if the individual person has to remove them for charging, but I am still in the same place. I use a triton most of the time so I just keep them loaded, but some people may not be able to.

  22. #52
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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    Quote Originally Posted by TorchBoy View Post
    FWIW there's a quicklink/jump link to it too: http://www.videofoundry.co.nz/ianman...st.php#AMC7135 (and then click to expand).
    That is very helpful. I saved your chart into my Favorites. Thanks.
    Last edited by 420light; 02-22-2010 at 11:05 AM.
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  23. #53
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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    I'm glad you folk find it useful (or at least interesting). I just remembered that I made a short path as well. http://www.videofoundry.co.nz/driverlist
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  24. #54
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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    Quote Originally Posted by Mettee View Post
    Delrin, with a brass, copper, or Al plug, Then I either solder to the copper or I use a small set screw to hold the wire. If I was making this pack I would use hobby noodle wire in as heavy a gauge as I could.

    I have been trying to figure out the best way to load batteries if the individual person has to remove them for charging, but I am still in the same place. I use a triton most of the time so I just keep them loaded, but some people may not be able to.

    PM sent.

  25. #55

    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    FYI, if you look at the spec sheet, the absolute max voltage of the AMC7135 chip is 7v I believe, the only reason I know this, is I am running a multimode slave setup, running off a 5-cell NI-MH battery pack. It's from a previous bicycle light system, and it's still working, so I decided to use it. I have been able to run this light for a good length of time. HOWEVER, they chips are definitely well heatsinked, otherwise there is no way they would take the heat. The body of the light, which they are transferring the heat into does get quite warm, so I know that they are putting off a lot of heat, and unlike Alkaline, they will stay at 6v or above for most of the runtime, so I had to be sure that they had a way to get rid of the heat.

    When the battery pack finally dies, I will just run it with 4 cells instead, but this allows me to use a perfectly good bicycle battery setup with the modded light.

  26. #56

    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    Ti-Force or anyone that knows... I saw how you stacked 7135 chips directly on top of eachother and that worked.. Are there any disadvantages doing it that way instead of stacking the entire boards? It looks like it would save a lot of room.

  27. #57
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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveoMiami View Post
    Ti-Force or anyone that knows... I saw how you stacked 7135 chips directly on top of eachother and that worked.. Are there any disadvantages doing it that way instead of stacking the entire boards? It looks like it would save a lot of room.
    The only disadvantage I can think of is heat dissipation, and I'm not sure that would actually be a problem unless your input voltage is considerably higher than the led's voltage forward. The higher the input voltage is over vf, the less efficient the driver becomes because it has to burn off the excess voltage.
    Last edited by ti-force; 10-13-2010 at 05:42 AM.

  28. #58
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    Default Re: Parallel wiring of shining beam 2.5A driver

    BTW, if anyone's interested in changing a Shiningbeam 1.4A, 3- mode driver into a single mode driver, all you need to do is remove the ATMEL chip, then solder a jumper wire and you will have a 1.4A, single mode driver :

    Here's a picture:


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