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Thread: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

  1. #1
    Flashaholic* Sabrewolf's Avatar
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    Default " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    After many months of design, Zeruel and myself have come up
    with this flashlight/searchlight project that we would like to
    offer Cpf members once things get going.

    It is a hybrid light that offers a good balance of throw and flood
    for up close and far away lighting. Renderings are shown below
    to give you a good idea of what the light looks like. The body
    is composed of 3 parts. A middle section housing all the parts.
    And 2 outer shells. It will be about 1.25in/32mm thick, With the
    other dimensions listed in the pictures below. a 7075 Aluminum
    metal will be used in all 3 sections, And will be Hard Anodized
    in a type 3 coating. Black/Olive/Natural finishes will be offered.




    This light will be offered in 3 different configurations using the same body shell:

    2k 3x MC-E leds powered by 5x 18650 Batteries.
    4k 3x SST-90 leds powered by 3x 18650 Batteries.
    6k 2x SST-90 leds and 1x CSM-360 led powered by 5x 18650 Batteries.


    Estimated Max output Lumens in listed order from above:
    (numbers vary depending on type of 18650 batteries used)
    (These are Actual calculated numbers AT the led)

    2k 1800-2100 Lumens
    4k 4000-5000 Lumens
    6k 6000-10000 Lumens


    Runtime ratings on these lights at MAX output.
    (runtimes may not be continuous due to heat buildup)
    (All models will most likely have a 20hr+ LOW runtime)

    2k 1.5hrs-1.75hrs
    4k 30-40mins
    6k 30-40mins


    These 3 versions will utilize the Taskled line of Drivers.
    (all models will be configured for 5-Level adjustable output)

    2k Hipflex configured for 2.8a Max output
    4k and 6k will use the D2Flex driver


    Prices depend upon the model you choose:
    (these are Approximate prices)

    2k 450$-550$
    4k 650$-750$
    6k 850$-950$


    AW Protected or similar Protected battieries
    will be required for the 4k and 6k.

    IMR Batteries are recommended if you want to
    run the 6k to its Max potential of 10k lumens.

    The 2k can use DX protected batteries because
    the total Ah draw on the batts would be less than
    2,400mA, Or less than 1c.

    The batteries will be in an Isolated tray inside the
    body of the light. Thier will also be a builtin charging
    option with all 3 models. And they will come out as
    a unit so you can swap out trays easily.

    A prototype is being made that will go to the designer "Zeruel".
    Then you will all see what a monster of a light it is !!

    More Details to come!!!
    Last edited by Sabrewolf; 02-23-2010 at 03:04 AM.

  2. #2
    Flashaholic* saabluster's Avatar
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight using the CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    Love it. Looks like something from Star Trek TNG. Make it so.

  3. #3
    Administrator Kestrel's Avatar
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    All I can say is

  4. #4
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    6k 6000-10000 Lumens...
    Yeah Baby! Now we`re talkin`!
    I can`t wait to see the prototype!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    I am currently somewhere between "DUDE! That is so friggen awesome" and giggling like a school girl.

    SO, I will jsut say that this seems like an interesting project, and I look forward to seeing it come to fruition.

    5X18650..that's a lot of li-ion! Any thoughts to using a balanced pack or very safe chemistry cells?

  6. #6
    Flashaholic* 276's Avatar
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    Wow!! this looks really cool!!
    Surefire,Inova,4Sevens,Fenix,Olight,Malkoff, AEX25,Xeray50,Polarion Aybss Dual, AElight 30-50 watt,Wiseled tactical 2000,Peak, Lupine Wilma TL, .......

  7. #7

    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    nice ...
    Endurer 4x18650 4xCree MCE M-bin WH 3000+ lumen, Police Maglite 2D SSR-90 with KD 52mm aspheric and 10A current with LDO10C driver and Red Maglite 5D@Luminus CBM-360 4500K neutral white 5000 lumen aspheric

  8. #8
    Flashaholic* Echo63's Avatar
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    that looks very interesting.

    i could see one of these being mounted in a cradle in the back of my next car.

    will this be running the 18650s recharged in the light, or will they be easily removable so they can be swapped out easily ?

    having a lower level would be handy too - like 800ish lumens, along with the 6-10k lumens
    Last edited by Echo63; 02-23-2010 at 12:19 AM.
    flashlight collector by day
    flashlight user by night

  9. #9
    *Flashaholic* toby_pra's Avatar
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    Looks nice!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    Neat! That's an amazing amount of lumens from a truly tiny package....and a very nice looking design as well! Well done.

    I have one question about the location of the cooling fins, though. (Of course, I don't know much about flashlight design, so please take this question with a grain of salt!). I noticed that the cooling fins (which is where I assume most of the heat would be dissipated) are located directly under the handle, which is where your hand would be. Would dissipating the heat towards the handle make the light too hot to carry? (I imagine that you'd run into the same issue with the "underhand carry" option you'd pictured.)

    In other words, the hottest part of the flashlight (the head) is usually located far away from where we hold it (the body)....so I'm just wondering whether this design creates any functional problems. Of course, I'm not as familiar with the SST-90s, so they may run cooler than the LEDs I'm used to.

    Again, this is just food for thought, since I'm really excited about the prospect of this light coming to market!

    - FITP
    Last edited by FlashInThePan; 02-23-2010 at 01:42 AM.
    Obscenely bright or unbelievably tiny are my weaknesses...

  11. #11

    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    Would be interesting to use a standard laptop or camcorder battery, instead of those scary loose cells (protection or no protection).

  12. #12
    Flashaholic* Zeruel's Avatar
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    Quote Originally Posted by FlashInThePan View Post
    Neat! That's an amazing amount of lumens from a truly tiny package....and a very nice looking design as well! Well done.

    I have one question about the location of the cooling fins, though. (Of course, I don't know much about flashlight design, so please take this question with a grain of salt!). I noticed that the cooling fins (which is where I assume most of the heat would be dissipated) are located directly under the handle, which is where your hand would be. Would dissipating the heat towards the handle make the light too hot to carry? (I imagine that you'd run into the same issue with the "underhand carry" option you'd pictured.)

    In other words, the hottest part of the flashlight (the head) is usually located far away from where we hold it (the body)....so I'm just wondering whether this design creates any functional problems. Of course, I'm not as familiar with the SST-90s, so they may run cooler than the LEDs I'm used to.

    Again, this is just food for thought, since I'm really excited about the prospect of this light coming to market!

    - FITP
    Thanks all for liking the design.

    The fins are Sabrewolf's suggestion to whom I defer for technical and engineering matters.

    That's a good point there. But I believe the fins wouldn't be hot, it'll be warm at the most. Check out other high output lights with fins, like Neofab Legion II, M1X, M30, the role of fins is to help dissipate the heat through the width of it and by the time it reaches the tip, it would not be scorching anymore. Of course, this will also depend on the amount of heatsink within the light, how hard the LEDs are driven and the depth of the fins. I hope Sabrewolf will correct me if I'm wrong here.

    In case anyone's wondering, the 3 blue slots on the head are supposed to be trits allocation and the 6K with blue lines might be lighted or GITD. This apply to the trit and ON button on the primary switch as well.

  13. #13
    Flashaholic* Sabrewolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    Zeruel is correct in his answers

    AW Protected or similar Protected battieries
    will be required for the 4k and 6k.

    IMR Batteries are recommended if you want to
    run the 6k to its Max potential of 10k lumens.

    The 2k can use DX protected batteries because
    the total Ah draw on the batts would be less than
    2,400mA, Or less than 1c.

    The batteries will be in an Isolated tray inside the
    body of the light. Thier will also be a builtin charging
    option with all 3 models. And they will come out as
    a unit so you can swap out trays easily.
    Last edited by Sabrewolf; 02-23-2010 at 03:03 AM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    Come to papa! Can't wait to see the proto and some more numbers such as lower levels and runtime once it is put together!!!

  15. #15

    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    Super cool!!!



  16. #16
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    how about a plug in adapter so it can be run off of electricity when the batteries die or a regular wall plug to charge it?

  17. #17
    Flashaholic* Sabrewolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    Quote Originally Posted by ftumch33 View Post
    how about a plug in adapter so it can be run off of electricity when the batteries die or a regular wall plug to charge it?
    That Will be an option too. I am going to put tripod mounts
    on the light so you can use it as a worklight/arealight.
    Also shooting for a 2000 lumen continuous runtime so you
    can take advantage of that feature.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    Ooh, very nice!

    Small question:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabrewolf View Post
    This light will be offered in 3 different configurations using the same body shell:

    2k 3x MC-E leds powered by 5x 18650 Batteries.
    4k 3x SST-90 leds powered by 3x 18650 Batteries.
    6k 2x SST-90 leds and 1x CSM-360 led powered by 5x 18650 Batteries.
    If they're all using the same shell and the 4k version uses only 3x 18650s, what's taking up the rest of the space? Only thing I can think of are some really deep reflectors/optics.

    Actually, second question while I'm typing, what reflectors/optics are you using?
    Finning does help dissipate heat. This is why the fins are removed before cooking fish. Otherwise it will throw off the heat and not reach the proper cooking temperature. --Duglite

  19. #19
    Flashaholic* Sabrewolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    I am making seperate battery trays for the 2k/4-6k
    There will be trays that have builtin recharging too

    Ohh, The reflectors are custom made for this light.
    Most likely 1in/25mm diameter X 2in/50mm deep Orangepeel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Th232 View Post
    Ooh, very nice!

    Small question:



    If they're all using the same shell and the 4k version uses only 3x 18650s, what's taking up the rest of the space? Only thing I can think of are some really deep reflectors/optics.

    Actually, second question while I'm typing, what reflectors/optics are you using?

  20. #20
    Flashaholic aurum's Avatar
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    Too expensive for me but nice

  21. #21
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    Thanks for the info, I'll be watching this one very carefully.
    Finning does help dissipate heat. This is why the fins are removed before cooking fish. Otherwise it will throw off the heat and not reach the proper cooking temperature. --Duglite

  22. #22
    Flashaholic* DIWdiver's Avatar
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabrewolf View Post
    A prototype is being made that will go to the designer "Zeruel".
    Then you will all see what a monster of a light it is !!

    More Details to come!!!
    Not to rain on your parade (but that's exactly what I'm about to do), but aren't you getting a little ahead of yourselves? You haven't even seen a prototype and you're quoting prices and performance?

    Maybe I'm all wet (and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong), but isn't a little reality check appropriate?

    Cooling fins: what cooling fins? the side view shows maybe a few mm of length available to the fins. Those aren't fins, they're ridges. They won't help much.

    The CSM-360 draws about 80W and the SST-90 draws over 30W each to get the maximum output of 6000lm and 2000lm(x2) for your total of 10000lm. Given regulator efficiencies of 90% (which is optimistic), you are going to have to draw 155W or more from the batteries. With 5 cells, you need 31W/cell. At 4V, that's 7.75A. To run your quoted minimum of 30 minutes, you'd have to have 3875 mAH (or better, even at 2C rate) cells. Where do you get those in 18650 size, protected?

    I built a dive light with about 16W max battery draw and 35 in^2 (22.6 cm^2) of surface area. In water it's fine, but operating in air, it gets uncomfortable to handle. You have something like twice the surface area, but ten times the power. That means your temperature rise will be 3-5 times as high as mine. After a few minutes you won't be able to pick the light up. It might smell a bit smoky too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabrewolf View Post
    Ohh, The reflectors are custom made for this light.
    Most likely 1in/25mm diameter X 2in/50mm deep Orangepeel.
    Okay, so you haven't completed the reflector design yet. When do you expect to ship?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabrewolf View Post
    2k 1.5hrs-1.75hrs
    4k 30-40mins
    6k 30-40mins
    Okay, so the 6K has almost 5 times the output, with high current (thus lower capactiy) batteries, but the burn time is only 2.5-3 times less? How does that compute?

    Maybe it's too late at night to be writing something like this, and please accept my apologies if I'm missing something, but am I missing something?

    D

  23. #23

    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    Dayum...thats bad a$$!

  24. #24
    Flashaholic* Sabrewolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    Quote Originally Posted by DIWdiver View Post
    Not to rain on your parade (but that's exactly what I'm about to do), but aren't you getting a little ahead of yourselves? You haven't even seen a prototype and you're quoting prices and performance?

    Maybe I'm all wet (and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong), but isn't a little reality check appropriate?

    Cooling fins: what cooling fins? the side view shows maybe a few mm of length available to the fins. Those aren't fins, they're ridges. They won't help much.

    The CSM-360 draws about 80W and the SST-90 draws over 30W each to get the maximum output of 6000lm and 2000lm(x2) for your total of 10000lm. Given regulator efficiencies of 90% (which is optimistic), you are going to have to draw 155W or more from the batteries. With 5 cells, you need 31W/cell. At 4V, that's 7.75A. To run your quoted minimum of 30 minutes, you'd have to have 3875 mAH (or better, even at 2C rate) cells. Where do you get those in 18650 size, protected?

    I built a dive light with about 16W max battery draw and 35 in^2 (22.6 cm^2) of surface area. In water it's fine, but operating in air, it gets uncomfortable to handle. You have something like twice the surface area, but ten times the power. That means your temperature rise will be 3-5 times as high as mine. After a few minutes you won't be able to pick the light up. It might smell a bit smoky too.



    Okay, so you haven't completed the reflector design yet. When do you expect to ship?



    Okay, so the 6K has almost 5 times the output, with high current (thus lower capactiy) batteries, but the burn time is only 2.5-3 times less? How does that compute?

    Maybe it's too late at night to be writing something like this, and please accept my apologies if I'm missing something, but am I missing something?

    D
    I am sorry to say, But your comments aren't even valid because this light
    is not even in the prototype stage yet. It is on Paper. There are alot of
    things that will be changed, And will differ from the rendered drawings.
    Please be patient while we work out more of the final details as the first
    prototype come to fruition.

  25. #25
    Flashaholic* Zeruel's Avatar
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    Quote Originally Posted by DIWdiver View Post
    Not to rain on your parade (but that's exactly what I'm about to do), but aren't you getting a little ahead of yourselves? You haven't even seen a prototype and you're quoting prices and performance?

    Maybe I'm all wet (and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong), but isn't a little reality check appropriate?

    Cooling fins: what cooling fins? the side view shows maybe a few mm of length available to the fins. Those aren't fins, they're ridges. They won't help much.

    The CSM-360 draws about 80W and the SST-90 draws over 30W each to get the maximum output of 6000lm and 2000lm(x2) for your total of 10000lm. Given regulator efficiencies of 90% (which is optimistic), you are going to have to draw 155W or more from the batteries. With 5 cells, you need 31W/cell. At 4V, that's 7.75A. To run your quoted minimum of 30 minutes, you'd have to have 3875 mAH (or better, even at 2C rate) cells. Where do you get those in 18650 size, protected?

    I built a dive light with about 16W max battery draw and 35 in^2 (22.6 cm^2) of surface area. In water it's fine, but operating in air, it gets uncomfortable to handle. You have something like twice the surface area, but ten times the power. That means your temperature rise will be 3-5 times as high as mine. After a few minutes you won't be able to pick the light up. It might smell a bit smoky too.



    Okay, so you haven't completed the reflector design yet. When do you expect to ship?



    Okay, so the 6K has almost 5 times the output, with high current (thus lower capactiy) batteries, but the burn time is only 2.5-3 times less? How does that compute?

    Maybe it's too late at night to be writing something like this, and please accept my apologies if I'm missing something, but am I missing something?

    D

    Hey DIWdiver, presenting an initial sketch and targeted performance has always been a regular practice of modders here in CPF. In case you're not in the know, this is done for a few reasons. First, it's for the modders to share the excitement of a new interesting project, yes, in CPF, we do that a lot. It's about sharing an idea with everyone till the day it comes to fruition. Second, sometimes modders seek helpful input from CPFers in order to better the products and CPFers in turn, provided very good suggestions in a respectful and positive manner. Third, for modders to gauge the interest level of the project. Fourth, in some cases, to provide as much info as possible, this includes the kind of costs that will go into the project and in a way, giving interested buyers estimate prices that might be put up in the end.

    While technically, you might see this project as impossible, we see it as a challenge and I have confidence in Sabrewolf to pull it off, all his creations so far have challenged the norm and they have succeeded in doing what he set them out to do.

    And yes, it's too late at night and you're missing something; a little manners in the way you worded your post.

  26. #26
    Flashaholic* DIWdiver's Avatar
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    First I'd like to apologize to Sabrewolf and Zeruel for the tone of my previous post. It was inappropriate and uncalled for.

    I've looked at some of Sabrewolf's previous work, and it's impressive in it's artistry, clever design, and in the way it captures the excitement of the members.

    And this is a pretty cool design too, not only in it's astounding light output, but also in that it's one of the very few designs around that's flat. This makes it useful in some applications where other massively bright lights simply can't be used. It's bound to create a lot of excitement in whatever its final form turns out to be.

    However, I do think some of my points ARE valid. Especially the heat issue. That much heat in that small a package is not going to be dissipated satisfactorily just by the surface of the case. Perhaps a small fan could force some air flow through a cavity behind the LEDs? The nature of your design is such that it would lend itself to this much better than most others. There's also a lot of case out in front of the LEDs. I assume this is part of the reflector design, but it might work well as heatsink fins too if there was some airflow through it. Will the unit have thermal protection for the LEDs?

  27. #27

    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    Did you guys already consider making it from 2 U shaped alu plates, 1 shape that represent the upper, back and lower side of the box and the other would be the left side, front and right side of the box (horizontal u shaped).
    The horizontal U acts as the leds heatsink, and the vertical one acts as the battery+circuitry heatsink.
    Use alu plate with proper thickness, and then bend it, and the rest will be adding fins with CNC.
    Just a thought, sorry for my bad english.

  28. #28
    Flashaholic JulianP's Avatar
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    Thank you for advancing the development of flashlights. I hope you realize that at 10,000 lumens, you could have the best portable searchlight available. From a marketing perspective, it would be much sought after by emergency services, military etc. I humbly suggest adding flood-to-throw optics. I am only a collector, but I would consider buying one if it could throw a spot on a cloud.

  29. #29

    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    Quote Originally Posted by JulianP View Post
    I am only a collector, but I would consider buying one if it could throw a spot on a cloud.
    Not happening. You realize this thing is portrayed as about 1.25" thick? I don't care what optics you add in that space, you simply don't have the aperture for long-range throw given the surface brightness of current LEDs.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: " 6k " A Hybrid Flashlight/Searchlight 6k-10K Lumens with a CSM-360 "Luminus" Led

    Make them stackable and snap together if they are thin enough.

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