Surefire: My opinion... and yours

anonymoususer · Mar 13, 2010

Here are my humble opinions about Surefire lights. I am new to this forum and new to "higher end" flashlights and do not claim to be a guru or know it all. However sometimes its good to see things (and get opinions) from a fresh set of eyes.

- Pros: Surefire

-Excellent quality lights
-Top notch warranty
-Highly regarded name
-Lots of mods
-Excellent resale value

- Cons: Surefire

-Pricey and some people say overpriced however market perception and demand allows for superior price point. Nonetheless i still buy Surefire because overall it is a superior built product
-Lots of mods means i spend way too much money on my Surefires!
-Relatively low output compared to other brands. Aftermarket emitter modules available to match or better the output of other brands. However refer to the point above. More money! And warranty is technically voided
-Relatively low run time compared to other brands and aftermarket options

- Opinions

-Surefire needs to step it up instead of idling on their high horse. If they are considered the best quality flashlights, they need to get rid of the standard Anodizing and ONLY offer Hard Anodizing
-They need to also offer more advanced lighting for improved efficiency (most important to the SF community of users IMO) and improved output
-Surefire flashlights should not be regarded as the most technologically advanced flashlights but as the most durable and reliable... which goes on to the next point
-The "higher end" flashlight market needs brands such as Olight and Fenix to drive innovation as their selling point and influence the big daddy brand Surefire to step things up a notch.

What's your comments and opinions?

umc · Mar 13, 2010

anonymoususer said:
Here are my humble opinions about Surefire lights. I am new to this forum and new to "higher end" flashlights and do not claim to be a guru or know it all. However sometimes its good to see things (and get opinions) from a fresh set of eyes.

- Pros: Surefire

-Excellent quality lights
-Top notch warranty
-Highly regarded name
-Lots of mods
-Excellent resale value

- Cons: Surefire

-Pricey and some people say overpriced however market perception and demand allows for superior price point. Nonetheless i still buy Surefire because overall it is a superior built product
-Lots of mods means i spend way too much money on my Surefires!
-Relatively low output compared to other brands. Aftermarket emitter modules available to match or better the output of other brands. However refer to the point above. More money! And warranty is technically voided
-Relatively low run time compared to other brands and aftermarket options

- Opinions

-Surefire needs to step it up instead of idling on their high horse. If they are considered the best quality flashlights, they need to get rid of the standard Anodizing and ONLY offer Hard Anodizing
-They need to also offer more advanced lighting for improved efficiency (most important to the SF community of users IMO) and improved output
-Surefire flashlights should not be regarded as the most technologically advanced flashlights but as the most durable and reliable... which goes on to the next point
-The "higher end" flashlight market needs brands such as Olight and Fenix to drive innovation as their selling point and influence the big daddy brand Surefire to step things up a notch.

What's your comments and opinions?

My comments and opinions:

Your "pros" are subjective

Your "cons" are opinions

Your "opinions" are cons and well, still your opinions.

jp2515 · Mar 13, 2010

All of those points have been talked about and debated endlessly, Do a search and you will find the same points being discussed over time.

pfccypret · Mar 13, 2010

LOL, I think he is asking for opinions and that is the point.

My personal *opinion* on Surefires is that they aren't worth the money. I don't mean they are poor quality or bad flashlights by any means. However, I just think you can get almost as good quality for a lot less money. I own three Surefires and I hold them in high regard. But if someone asks me for a flashlight recommendation, I typically don't mention Surefire just due to the cost. Some people think they are worth the money and I respect that. But just personally, I tend to spend my money elsewhere.

I also a bit annoyed at times about their vaporware. But that is any company.

As for lower output/run time; that is the problem with any of the really big American flashlight companies (Streamlight, Inova, Maglight, ect). They are sometimes years behind on emitter technology. There are several reasons for that, but the biggest is that they ship a lot more lights, are better known and sell to more of the "laymen" of flashlight buyers. People would be confused and annoyed if Surefire kept updating its line every time cree released a new emitter. Also, if they are still moving flashlights, what is the point of updating? Fenix tends to sell to well informed flashlight collectors that would laugh if they offered yesterdays technology. Surefire sells to Police Chiefs who recognize the name Surefire, thinks LED is some cool new technology and just orders 200 6Ps for the Officers without looking into it. Even those who know the difference tend to buy Surefires for the utter reliability more than they do for their lumens.

Also, Surefire is not "competing" with Fenix or Olight. Maybe they will one day. But as of now they compete with the companies I mentioned above for the all important public safety/military market. Do a google search for terms like "flashlight" or "flashlight for sell".

Greg G · Mar 13, 2010

They could put better LED's in their high end LED lights.

A $200 LED light should not needs to be modded to be satisfactory.

I'm not even going to come back to this thread and read the apologists posts against me. I stand by my belief.

When I last bought a $200 Surefire, I felt like I got a $100 light and paid $100 towards their ad campaign.

DimeRazorback · Mar 13, 2010

I still don't understand why people find it so hard to comprehend that surefire know what they are doing when designing their lights.
With their main customer base (law enforcement and military) less is sometimes more in regards to output.
Runtime only needs to be as long as an average operation.
And it doesn't matter if that tool gets beat up.

kramer5150 · Mar 13, 2010

Surefire opinions (either pro or con) are pointless, meaningless and base-less without first hand ownership and field use. This is a product that must be owned and used to be either appreciated or disliked.

anonymoususer · Mar 13, 2010

pfccypret said:
LOL, I think he is asking for opinions and that is the point.

THANK YOU! I guess the other two missed that... :shrug:

This thread was created for INTELLECTUAL debate. Thank you for your INTELLECTUAL opinion... LOL

pfccypret said:
My personal *opinion* on Surefires is that they aren't worth the money. I don't mean they are poor quality or bad flashlights by any means. However, I just think you can get almost as good quality for a lot less money. I own three Surefires and I hold them in high regard. But if someone asks me for a flashlight recommendation, I typically don't mention Surefire just due to the cost. Some people think they are worth the money and I respect that. But just personally, I tend to spend my money elsewhere.

I wouldn't consider Surefires as the best (or even a good) value. But i bought mostly for the brand and second and third for its durability and mod-a-bility. Yes i bought for the brand name, i have the balls to say the truth. :twothumbs

pfccypret said:
As for lower output/run time; that is the problem with any of the really big American flashlight companies (Streamlight, Inova, Maglight, ect). They are sometimes years behind on emitter technology. There are several reasons for that, but the biggest is that they ship a lot more lights, are better known and sell to more of the "laymen" of flashlight buyers. People would be confused and annoyed if Surefire kept updating its line every time cree released a new emitter. Also, if they are still moving flashlights, what is the point of updating? Fenix tends to sell to well informed flashlight collectors that would laugh if they offered yesterdays technology. Surefire sells to Police Chiefs who recognize the name Surefire, thinks LED is some cool new technology and just orders 200 6Ps for the Officers without looking into it. Even those who know the difference tend to buy Surefires for the utter reliability more than they do for their lumens.

It makes sense Surefire and the other brands are behind in emitter technology maybe due to the volume of emitters required to keep up with their production.

But i think it is foolish if Surefire refrains from using the newest or newer emitters due to confusion on their product line. A lot of the top emitters being used today have been out for 1-2+ year(s). And besides, they dont publicly announce the emitters they use anyway.

pfccypret said:
Also, Surefire is not "competing" with Fenix or Olight. Maybe they will one day. But as of now they compete with the companies I mentioned above.

Agreed. I dont think they compete with Olight or Fenix. It is quite the opposite in fact.

Your opinion is much appreciated. :thumbsup:

anonymoususer · Mar 13, 2010

DimeRazorback said:
I still don't understand why people find it so hard to comprehend that surefire know what they are doing when designing their lights.

With respect to your opinion... i still do not understand why people find it so hard to give an honest opinion in search of a better product... :thinking: :thinking:

DimeRazorback said:
With their main customer base (law enforcement and military) less is sometimes more in regards to output.

Let me get this straight. Less is more in regards to output in what way? In regards to run time?

DimeRazorback said:
Runtime only needs to be as long as an average operation.

Is it reasonable to expect a LEO or security guard to replace their 123A's after every shift? Whats wrong about asking for a more efficient emitter in search for longer run time?

DimeRazorback said:
And it doesn't matter if that tool gets beat up.

You cant generalize every Surefire owner in that way. I never neglect my tools and i try to keep ALL my tools (and work truck) in excellent condition.

anonymoususer · Mar 13, 2010

kramer5150 said:
Surefire opinions (either pro or con) are pointless, meaningless and base-less without first hand ownership and field use. This is a product that must be owned and used to be either appreciated or disliked.

Thanks for your opinion.

I don't think a more efficient emitter or more durable coating would negatively affect field usage.

I have never used a Surefire in a tactical environment however i have taken it on more than a few hikes and dropped one of them more than a few times.

DimeRazorback · Mar 13, 2010

I clearly stated that less is more in regards to output.
Mate, in a situation where you are clearing a room or building, it is normally done by more than one person.
That means that you will have say, 4 separate flashlights bouncing around in one room.
Therefore, less is more. Otherwise you will blind yourself, or team members, or they will blind you.

Surefire's are as I said, generally designed for tacticals markets, mainly the military (who often supply batteries) which is why they are made as they are.
If you think they are doing something wrong, I am sure they would appreciate your expertise in the development of tactical illumination tools.

Surefire's are not made for a nightly stroll (although they can be used for one). They are made to be taken into battle. They are a tool, with a specifically designed purpose. If mine get dented and banged up, I know it isn't money wasted.
I am very careful and protective of my things. However, if I have a tool I will not baby it.
Do you buy a hammer to sit on a bench and look pretty, or to hit things with?

You are asking for opinions, I have given mine, twice now in this thread. Opinions are opinions, they will not change what SF are or what they do, so therefore all opinions cause is arguments...

kramer5150 · Mar 13, 2010

anonymoususer said:
Thanks for your opinion.

I don't think a more efficient emitter or more durable coating would negatively affect field usage.

I have never used a Surefire in a tactical environment however i have taken it on more than a few hikes and dropped one of them more than a few times.

Its good to establish this because so many noob rants/raves are based in speculation and not first hand use, thankfully yours is not.

Surefires, like any other brand have their strengths and weaknesses. They are good at what they do well and poor at what they don't. The discussion of "value" is purely subjective opinion of the individual... as we all value different strengths.

Personally I enjoy using my SFs along side my other brands. True they arn't the brightest, smallest or the most durable things out there, but I think the brand overall offers enough positives to offset the negatives.

Just my $.02
:twothumbs

anonymoususer · Mar 13, 2010

kramer5150 said:
Its good to establish this because so many noob rants/raves are based in speculation and not first hand use, thankfully yours is not.

Surefires, like any other brand have their strengths and weaknesses. They are good at what they do well and poor at what they don't. The discussion of "value" is purely subjective opinion of the individual... as we all value different strengths.

Personally I enjoy using my SFs along side my other brands. True they arn't the brightest, smallest or the most durable things out there, but I think the brand overall offers enough positives to offset the negatives.

Just my $.02
:twothumbs

I love my SF's. The one i mainly carry has been dropped several times... gone are the cheap plastic flashlights!!!

Dioni · Mar 13, 2010

DimeRazorback said:
I still don't understand why people find it so hard to comprehend that surefire know what they are doing when designing their lights.
With their main customer base (law enforcement and military) less is sometimes more in regards to output.
Runtime only needs to be as long as an average operation.
And it doesn't matter if that tool gets beat up.

+1
there are threads enough on it!

carrot · Mar 13, 2010

As far as I'm concerned, Surefire should just team up with Malkoff and offer Malkoff M61's as the standard LED option in their lights.

Besides that, Surefire already makes some of the best flashlights on the market, so I will continue to buy them, skyrocketing prices or not.

divine · Mar 14, 2010

Your statements about efficiency, output, and reliability do not seem correct.

I am changing Paul_in_Maryland's sig comment to apply to this thread:

efficiency, output, reliability: Choose any two.

pfccypret · Mar 14, 2010

I don't *exactly* agree that less is more when it comes to lights. But I do agree that any Surefire light is more than sufficient to light up a room. When I started as a cop 6 years ago, incan bulbs were still king. And lemme tell you, we were extremely impressed at how well a 60 lumen E2E lit up a room.

While I think extremely bright bulbs do have their place and most of the time as an officer I do like all the light I can get. I also understand that 600 lumens probably isn't necessary on a traffic stop or building search.

Hack On Wheels · Mar 14, 2010

My Surefires make me feel warm and fuzzy inside. :grin2:

They appeal to different people for different reasons... for some it is because they can be used hard and keep working, for others (like me) it is because of the plethora of lego possibilities!

I like how durable the Surefire parts are and how solid they feel in my hand; I know I'm not going off to war and I'm certainly not a LEO, but I still appreciate (simplicity and) reliability in my day-to-day life and when I'm off in the mountains hiking and camping. I would have a lot more Surefire parts if my budget would allow it.

Empath · Mar 14, 2010

The thread is bait, and has played out the same way many times before. Thread closed.

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