Is Iron Mountain near Poway, CA off limits to night hikers now?

Within the last few months, construction has taken place to create a lit parking lot at the trailhead to Iron Mountain. I was happy because it meant my car would be safer when I went on night hikes. Then I found a poster near the trailhead that stated that the hours for hiking were from sunrise to sunset. In other words, no night hiking. I have hiked this trail for years and have never seen a sign limiting the hours of hiking from Poway Road. There is however a sign at the Ellie Road trailhead which has its own parking lot right next to people's homes. If you think this is a waste of Poway taxpayer money, just think that federal stimulus money may have been used to create a lit parking lot that uses electricity all night, every night and doesn't allow hikers to use it at night. You probably are paying for it if you live anywhere in the U.S. To say I am angry is an understatement. This place is like my backyard and as a flashaholic, I mostly hike it at night. I left a letter right above the sign stating the operating hours to express my outrage. It read:

To whom it may concern:
I am a very frustrated citizen and frequent hiker of Iron Mountain. To my knowledge from hiking this trail for many years, there has never been a sign or paper posted limiting the hours visitors are allowed to hike from the Poway Road side of Iron Mountain. Now, at about the same time Poway taxpayer money has been spent for the construction of a lit parking structure, a poster has appeared stating the hours of trail access are only from sunrise to sunset. If this is an April Fool's Day joke, you got me. However, if this is to be enforced, I will make sure someone gets fired over this or at the very least, gets very unfavorable press coverage. I think the taxpayers would be very interested to find out that their money was wasted on the construction of a lit parking structure and is continuing to be wasted on electricity to light up the parking structure only during hours visitors are not allowed to use it. This is your only warning to remove or correct the poster before this information gets aired to the press. If these operating hours are enforced and I get a ticket, I will fight it and won't stop until the people responsible for this injustice are filing for unemployment benefits. These operating hours are unenforceable as they have never been posted there before and were only posted after a lit parking lot was constructed to draw in night hikers. At the least, I have a winning case for this being a waste of taxpayer money. At most, this constitutes an illegal ticket trap funded by taxpayers, in which case anyone standing in the way of eliminating these operating hours would be fired as well as those responsible for starting this mess. For your own sake, please remove or update the poster which states that the visiting hours are from sunrise to sunset, immediately.
Signed,
An anonymous angry hiker

I hope the letter simply scares them into taking down the sign. I hate seeing money used to "improve" my favorite local trail only for new red tape to screw it all up for everyone.

Just an idea - is it possible that the issues of night hiking and car park illumination are quite separate? You might find that local councils/park boards/whoever has responsibility for it are required to provide night lighting for their car parks, whatever their use. The car park at the bottom of my street is gated at night, but the lights are still on.

Your "illegal ticket trap" might be simply an effort to comply with local bylaws, frustrating though they might be for the car park owners.

Well, you don't have a problem being direct do you? I think there are more diplomatic ways to handle the situation but I guess everyone has to find their own way.

I would take a guess that the likely reason for the (new) hours is that some sort of criminal activity (loitering, drug use, night time parties, robbery, etc.) has occurred and they are taking first steps to make the location safer. But I guess there's no way to know this unless you just go ask someone why they did what they did.

Next time you write a letter threatening peoples jobs, at least have the balls to sign your name to it. Im not sure if you have ever dealt with people before but if I received a letter like that I would send it right back to you with a note on where you could stick it.

unit311 said:

Next time you write a letter threatening peoples jobs, at least have the balls to sign your name to it. Im not sure if you have ever dealt with people before but if I received a letter like that I would send it right back to you with a note on where you could stick it.

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Thanks for your honesty. However, judging by your last sentence, I'm not sure you know how to deal with people either. That's okay.

I had to do something. What they did made absolutely no sense economically or mentally. It made me mad that they ruined one of my favorite things to do while wasting taxpayer money. The sign didn't get placed until right after the lit parking lot went in. I put the letter at the trailhead so other hikers could see it as well and share my frustrations. I am not a Poway resident, so even if I went to complain, the government officials would probably ignore me. Getting Poway residents that hike the trail to realize the problem seemed like my best bet for solving it. The trail also runs along private property and isn't in the city of Poway, so it's hard to find who has jurisdiction. The only real way to give someone the message that there is a problem is to leave something for them to read at the trail.

I think this is one of those cases where the cops wont care unless your up to no good. All the local parks in my neighborhood close at 10pm, but my girlfriend and I take lake night walks often. We have encountered police and park staff several times and they have always just said hello and kept walking. They are just looking for kids messing around or druggies. Hopefully this will be the case here.

Thats a bummer! :mecry:I think your best route would be to contact whoever the authority in the area is. I'm in SoCal as well, a little bit further north. If its city property, you may be SOL. If its federal land or a state park, you may be alright.

The GF and I did an awesome night hike up to Holy Jim Falls a couple weeks ago. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the area, but you'd head up the 15N and get off on clinton keith in murrieta and head towards Santa Rosa Plateau. I stopped and spoke with a ranger on the way up and asked about any sort of curfew. He checked our forest adventure pass and said whenever you're ready head on down as long as we didn't camp without a permit. So the federal lands are pretty much open. I know Palomar is pretty close, as is Julian and plenty of other spots (not close, but within a reasonable distance). Check with the Palomar ranger district as well as the trabuco ranger district for more areas you can play at after dark

It's probably always been technically closed at night, just they never put up a sign to that effect until now. As I gather from reading here, the main reason is that it's difficult for law enforcement to protect or rescue people on remote trails at night. Easier just to close the trail. In practical terms, that also means it's likely you'll never have to worry about getting caught breaking the no hiking after dark rule.

jtr1962 said:

It's probably always been technically closed at night, just they never put up a sign to that effect until now. As I gather from reading here, the main reason is that it's difficult for law enforcement to protect or rescue people on remote trails at night. Easier just to close the trail. In practical terms, that also means it's likely you'll never have to worry about getting caught breaking the no hiking after dark rule.

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Just don't carry the BIG lights, eh?

I would guess that the parking lot is city property, but the parking lot itself has no hours posted for parking. The new sign is maybe 100 feet away at the old trailhead (a new short trail leads from the parking lot to the trail). If I got a ticket for parking there, I think it would be very easy to fight as there is nothing in the parking lot stating any operating hours. The trail itself is surrounded by private property. They have a sign near the trailhead saying that you can't hike at night (technically, it says that the trail is open from sunrise to sunset for visitors), but being surrounded by private property, I don't see how the city would have any right to ticket me or say I couldn't hike at night.

As for search and rescue crews having a hard time finding lost and hurt hikers, halfway up the trail is a helipad. This is in San Diego county. From the end of a 911 call to getting to the hospital could be as little as 30 minutes. It's less than 3 miles to the top. Rescuers can fly to the helipad and only have to search about 1.5 miles either way to find victims. There have been mountain lions in the area recently. Someone spotted two from the road attacking some coyotes. Somehow, this made the local news. I heard their howls from the trail less than 1/4 mile away and then there was an eerie silence. While I have a healthy fear of large animals known to eat people, I have dealt with black bears, mountain lions, and poisonous snakes and come away without a scratch. I am scarier than most of the things hidden by darkness. I am a 3rd degree black belt, have been hiking and backpacking for about 15 years, and always come prepared for the unexpected. If anything, I would probably be one of the rescuers if someone got hurt or lost. I have helped people without flashlights make it back to the trailhead before. I keep a 35 watt H.I.D. spotlight, an extra Sawyers Snake Bite Kit, and a large first aid kit in my trunk at all times for such occasions. I am about the last person on earth that should banned from hiking at night on any particular trail.

As for hiking farther away in places like the Lagunas, I like Iron Mountain because it's close and free. The Lagunas require a $5 Wilderness adventure pass for each day. Anywhere else requires a day use permit (about the same cost) or a camp permit. It's also an hour drive each way and about a half tank of gas. The only other close trail is Mt. Woodson, which I don't hike often at night since my old car was broken into there.

Honestly, if you don't bother going to talk to these folk you're never going to find out if it really is a problem, and you're just going to stew about it.

Hooked on Fenix said:

The trail also runs along private property and isn't in the city of Poway, so it's hard to find who has jurisdiction.

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When I first read your sentence I thought you were saying that is was bordered all around by private land, but from what I read on the city of Poway's website, the actual trail is completely private, so they set the rules and you have to live with them, Poway constituent or not.

That makes it even more important to go talk to them (and remove your anonymous note).

I'm wondering if this might have something to due with the recent murder of a young girl on a similar trail not so far away.

Personally I find it annoying that every year the buerocracies especially here in California find a way to make life less enjoyable, everything from making Fireworks over the Harbor illegal to eliminating fire rings at most beaches and parks and fiesta island.

No longer can you sit at the beach with a warm fire at dusk drinking a cold one. Whats the point of even living in this quasi fascist area anymore.

If it was me I would just hike through anyway if I could find a place to park. I'm getting sort of irreverant of all the new BS being passed from mindless morons in this County.

Someone apparently took down the note and pinned the sign up in the case when before it had been sitting at the bottom.

I really don't like when I get restricted from doing things that cause absolutely no harm to anyone or anything because some bureaucrat thinks banning the activity is a good idea.

Did they get rid of the fire rings at the beach? Last I heard, a private citizen paid to keep them there for a year. While the city said they didn't have the money to keep the fire rings maintained, they were somehow able to afford brand new lifeguard towers at Mission Bay.

Hooked on Fenix said:

I really don't like when I get restricted from doing things that cause absolutely no harm to anyone or anything because some bureaucrat thinks banning the activity is a good idea.

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In your case, being private land, and especially if there was someone killed on a similar nearby track, it might not be a bureaucrat at all. It could be the private landowner reasonably wanting to cover his or her posterior.

Made any progress on tracking down who owns it?

Hooked on Fenix,

I have empathy for you facing the constant obstruction to seemingly simple freedoms and enjoyment by encroachment of seemingly pithy and punitive regulations made by people with little or no understanding of public/private access issues.

There are many reasons for the curtailing of your freedom to hike at night; but I would suggest - as others have already - that you make a reasonable attempt to get some background info regarding the situation. You'll probably find it's not as serious as you imagine. You can't buck the sustem but you sure as hell can be creative in manipulating it to do what you want. But be reasonable; recreational access issues can be extremely contentious and you may find yourself igniting a firestorm that restricts your freedoms even further.

The fact that you're hiking at night would probably raise a few eyebrows anyway! I often hike at night simply because I run out of daylight because of work; and even my wife thinks I'm nuts hiking at night!! WTF? I like to exercise and "wind-down" after work and just going for a hour-long hike helps a lot.... ...

By the way...you should have signed your note/letter with:

Vulgar, non-family friendly comment removed. - Empath

Well, I just got back from city hall in Poway. I talked to the guy responsible for the parking lot project and the sign and asked him some questions. I explained the situation and stated that before the sign was there, I night hiked the trail often. I asked him if it made sense to build a lit parking lot and keep it lit all night while not allowing people to hike at night. He said it does make sense. I asked if people would get a ticket for parking at the trailhead at night. He said no because the parking lot was going to be used as a park and ride (sort of like an unofficial bus stop). By the way, the parking lot is about 4 miles from anything other than the trail and scattered houses. I asked him about the waste of power and taxpayer money to keep the lights on all night. He said the lights aren't on all night and they shut off at 11 p.m. He also said that the trail has always been closed at night. I explained that there has never been any sign at the Poway Road trailhead stating any trail hours, but there was a sign at the Ellie Lane trailhead. He said, "That's correct". I asked why the trail was closed at night. His response: "It's too dangerous. Sometimes we have to protect people from themselves." I then explained a little of my background in hiking and that I had hiked plenty of times through bear and mountain lion country. I asked, "What would happen if someone went up Iron Mountain at night". He said, "It would be at their own risk".

:twothumbs That sounds not too unreasonable - I'm a big fan of personal responsibility but a lot of people do seem to need protecting from themselves. Well done for checking it out.

IMO, the trail probably was always "closed" at night, it was just never enforced nor advertised. There are a lot of trails that have been closed off, but I think legally they really can't do anything to prevent you from hiking on it, and it would be impossible to really enforce the rules. It's more for show than anything.

I think they are just trying to cover themselves legally, in case something does happen, they can say that officially nobody was supposed to be on that trail. I can just imagine someone trying to sue the city after being injured or raped on that trail, they would try and claim the city is responsible for their safety since there is a all night parking lot available to the public. Also, maybe they have a problem with drifters or wanderers setting up camp at some of those trailheads. Without clear signage, they probably can't do much to remove them.

Sounds like the problem is resolved. Just think, if you had gone to City hall in the first place, you wouldn't have had to write that letter.