You get what you pay for...or DO you?

First off, I want to say that I am guilty as charged for looking at a flashlight for the purposes of non-lethal self-defense(and what a joke THAT was). I've purchased a Streamlight TL-2 LED for $75 for that reason. But I've since been convinced that the only real "tactical" advantage I can get from it would be another 2 seconds of opportunity to get in a good slice with my Emerson CQC Super 7 wave. Which was what I wanted to avoid because of potential legal repercussions, though I obviously confused a flashlight for pepper spray.

On the bright side, I'll have a fairly bright flashlight for the next time an earthquake knocks out the power here.

My coworker insisted that his Surefire is at least twice as bright(I'm thinking E2DL). To me, that was kind of like having a guy pull his pants down in front of me, and what I saw made me insanely jealous. Though when I mentioned the price tag which deterred me from buying it in the first place he said, "you get what you pay for".

But do you really?

It seems to me that Surefire is like the Sony of flashlights. You're paying more for the name than anything else.

Comparing the Surefire L5 LunaMax to my TL-2, the power output is less, the size is bigger, it weighs more, the runtime is less, they're both LED, and they both use CR 123a batteries.

From a practical viewpoint, it simply seems like the TL-2 gives me MUCH more bang for my buck.

However, I suppose I DO somewhat believe in the "you get what you pay for" policy, as I've been reluctant to buy an EagleTac for more lumens at a lower price mostly because I was afraid I would end up with a cheap "Made in China" piece of junk that would break the next time I bumped it a little too hard.

Still, what exactly would I be paying Surefire for? I'm personally tempted to buy an E2DL(at $150 on eBay), for no other reason than because it's "better" than what I have <_<

But if I could get more quality for less, I'd probably go for it. In my mind, I suppose quality=more lumens. I was really tempted by that Wicked Lasers Torch flashlight with over 4,000 lumens. Though the price is certainly up there at over $300, with a runtime of 15 minutes, and little in the ways of pocket carrying.

I will stick with my three Solarforces ... Most expensive including postage to the UK was £18-36 (L2 five mode) , cheapest was £14-66 (L2i single mode) ... I use 18650s in all of them ... Quality is great on all three torches ... I'm not certain how many Lumens are pushed out , but a fully charged 18650 lasts about two and a half hours on high ... They are still useable as EDC particularly with the plain bezel fitted ... The L2 is about 5.2" long plus the button (0.2") and fits in a jacket pocket ... Good thing is that you can easily put another drop-in into the torch and there are loads of them to choose from.

Solarforce quality is way above what you expect for an almost budget torch , so to me , I can't see any need to spend more except perhaps for a better drop-in ... There is a nice Solarforce three mode (high , medium and low) drop-in for about £9-00.

My normal EDC is an iTP A2 which at £17-04 is another great torch at a sensible price and is very small even for a single AA cell torch ... My most expensive torch is in the post to me from Shiningbeam and is the stainless A2 at £25-64.

Don't waste your money on "Male Jewelry" torches when these others are available at a sensible price.
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I believe that you do indeed get what you pay for (generally speaking), but that also comes with diminishing returns. Once you get to a certain point you have high quality vs. higher quality, with the difference between the two being quite minute. So the question is, is that difference worth the price to YOU?


I own a couple of EagleTac lights and while I own zero Surefires, I have handled a few. I won't deny that the Surefires did seem a bit higher quality than the EagleTacs, but I did not feel the quality difference was worth the price difference. If I manage to break one of my EagleTacs (or any "high-end", non-DX Chinese made light) I'm seriously doing something wrong.

I must agree with the Welshman. I have one Surefire and if I'd had to pay full wack for it then it would have stayed on the shelf.

Yes, good workmanship very reliable etc etc. But with things like Dereelight, Fenix, 4Seven, Eagletac & Jetbeam producing flashlights that easy sit on a par, why shell out silly money for the Surefire.

In the uk Surefire E1B Backup £150 - $223

try a Jetbeam Jet-III Pro ST R2 instead for £64 - $95

In my opinion of the two above the Jetbeam wins (on output and run time too)


However being Scottish I am genetically disposed to get value for money

Squidboy said:

I must agree with the Welshman. I have one Surefire and if I'd had to pay full wack for it then it would have stayed on the shelf.

Yes, good workmanship very reliable etc etc. But with things like Dereelight, Fenix, 4Seven, Eagletac & Jetbeam producing flashlights that easy sit on a par, why shell out silly money for the Surefire.

In the uk Surefire E1B Backup £150 - $223

try a Jetbeam Jet-III Pro ST R2 instead for £64 - $95

In my opinion of the two above the Jetbeam wins (on output and run time too)


However being Scottish I am genetically disposed to get value for money

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Are you 100% Scottish ???

That Jetbeam is really expensive for a true Scot or even for a Yorkshireman ! ... It was either a gift or you won the National Lottery ! ... Only Joking.

I am part Scot (Father was) , part Irish and part English too , and living in Wales now with another Welsh Wife ... I don't waste money on torches when I can invest it wisely on the "water of life" ... Purely medicinal reasons of course.

The title "You get what you pay for .... or DO you" could really apply to Wives ! ... I suppose the "Law of Diminishing Returns" really comes true when I look at my diminished assets !

p.s. First Wife was English (100%) ... I suppose that explains everything.
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I think that Surefire is indeed the best brand in terms of quality and you indeed will get what you pay for. But in actual usage, some other brands are just enough to serve it's purpose and even more.
3 quality lights is better than 1 surefire for me at the same price.

Isnt part of buying a surefire is the fact that if anything does happen to go wrong with it surefire will replace it, plus years of resaerch and development into a single model, why do you think one model stays around so long, look at fenix why do they have to constantly change the designs.

Reading reviews and doing research on this website is the best way to get a lot of bang-for-the buck when it comes to flashlights. You would be surprised what $30.00 or less can get you!

Noctis said:

It seems to me that Surefire is like the Sony of flashlights. You're paying more for the name than anything else.

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It's true that "most expensive" does not necessarily mean "best" because "best" is a relative term. For me, the "best" flashlight is one that's relatively inexpensive ($75 is about my threshold), small, light weight, uses a single AA battery, reasonably durable (it doesn't need to be able to pound nails into a 2x4, simply survive common everyday use and the occasional drop), and has multiple modes, so for my purposes, Surefire isn't the best.

kyamei said:

I believe that you do indeed get what you pay for (generally speaking), but that also comes with diminishing returns. Once you get to a certain point you have high quality vs. higher quality, with the difference between the two being quite minute. So the question is, is that difference worth the price to YOU?

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+1

abarth_1200 said:

look at fenix why do they have to constantly change the designs.

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Different market. Their flashlights are aimed at enthusiasts and collectors who buy several flashlights a year as opposed to Surefire that appeals primarily to law enforcement or search and rescue professionals who will buy one flashlight and stick with it. Part of the reason Surefire is so expensive is not simply because of the quality but because they move less inventory than a company like Nitecore or Fenix.

I don't get it either. Surefire recently announced their new line of flashlights... and when you take a look at them, they're still putting out 150 lumens for 2 hours on 2xCR123. Nothing brighter or more efficient. The competition is way beyond them, always striving for more efficient and brighter flashlights, year after year after year.

They announced a ultramegablastingbright 400 lumens QUAD die flashlight, making it look like it's the newest technology available, but they're not.
When I look at Surefire, it remembers me of M@gLite, using outdated technology (luxeons and rebels) and printing their catalogs like they discovered the fire: our NEW quad dies with ultimate technology.
I don't get it. And I don't want flames, this is just my opinion.

a flashlight is a tube of metal, with a light engine in one and and a switch the other end, and a battery.

as long as the power from the battery can get to the L.E. there will be light.

a lumen is a lumen weather you pay big or small for it.

cheap and expensive lights fail.

some arrive doa from the factory.

a 2010 porsche and a 1971 vw beetle will both get you there @ 70 mph.

maybe.

Well ...

I wanted a cheap single AA LED flashlight to use at work. I got a $13.00 UltraFire from a place with the initials of DX. Long story short, the cheap light didn't work; in operation or for my purposes.

I liked the way the UltraFire fit in my pocket. So, I updated to a $30.00 SpiderFire. This was more than I wanted to spend for something to use while at work. I realized that I was using the SpiderFire on almost a daily basis, and found that it wasn't giving me quite enough utility. So, now I had about $45.00 invested and still wasn't meeting my own lighting needs.

Lesson learned, I finally moved up to the $70.00 Jet-1 Pro; which I should have started with.

With shipping, I wasted about $50.00 on the first two flashlights; which was money that could have gone towards the very usable (for my purposes) $70.00 flashlight.

Looking back, I can tell you that I got what I paid for.

You pay for the logistics chain, from R&D to delivery to end user. Some chains consist of more expensive steps.

Without a doubt, Surefire IS better quality than Streamlight. Surefire is better quality than pretty much any other in the production world, and without equal. Anyone who says otherwise is either biased or ignorant.

That said, Surefire is not always the brightest.

They are too large of a company, with too much internal strife, to be as fast and maneuverable as the smaller companies like 4sevens, Olight, Fenix, etcetera.

But they also spend far more money on R&D and sell more flashlights than any of the small companies that have gained favor here. Surefire is not exactly on the leading edge of high output LEDs but that is not their promise. They are innovators in design, creating the two-stage switch, the P60 lamp/drop-in system, the lockout tailcap, and pioneered the usage of 123's in flashlights. They create reliable, tough and simple to use flashlights that you can use into the ground. They have world class customer service that will replace broken bulbs, worn out clicky boots, broken or melted windows at the drop of a hat.

I myself have dozens of Surefire. I also have 4sevens, Fenix, Olight, Inova, Streamlight, Peak, Pelican, LRI and plenty others. You want to try some real quality? Try the Surefire Saint, which is a headlamp without equal. Or try the LX2 or E2DL or E1B. Or check out a C-series Surefire of your choice and a Malkoff M61. Trust me, you'll be blown away.

By the way, I have also seen a Solarforce L2. Not even close to the 6P. Both are dumb hosts, yes, but the Solarforce is cheap junk by a long shot.

If you want to simply have the brightest, most cutting edge LEDs, look elsewhere. But if you want quality, elegant design, and support one of the biggest innovators, Surefire is the only choice.

carrot said:

Without a doubt, Surefire IS better quality than Streamlight. Surefire is better quality than pretty much any other in the production world, and without equal. Anyone who says otherwise is either biased or ignorant.

That said, Surefire is not always the brightest.

They are too large of a company, with too much internal strife, to be as fast and maneuverable as the smaller companies like 4sevens, Olight, Fenix, etcetera.

But they also spend far more money on R&D and sell more flashlights than any of the small companies that have gained favor here. Surefire is not exactly on the leading edge of high output LEDs but that is not their promise. They are innovators in design, creating the two-stage switch, the P60 lamp/drop-in system, the lockout tailcap, and pioneered the usage of 123's in flashlights. They create reliable, tough and simple to use flashlights that you can use into the ground. They have world class customer service that will replace broken bulbs, worn out clicky boots, broken or melted windows at the drop of a hat.

I myself have dozens of Surefire. I also have 4sevens, Fenix, Olight, Inova, Streamlight, Peak, Pelican, LRI and plenty others. You want to try some real quality? Try the Surefire Saint, which is a headlamp without equal. Or try the LX2 or E2DL or E1B. Or check out a C-series Surefire of your choice and a Malkoff M61. Trust me, you'll be blown away.

By the way, I have also seen a Solarforce L2. Not even close to the 6P. Both are dumb hosts, yes, but the Solarforce is cheap junk by a long shot.

If you want to simply have the brightest, most cutting edge LEDs, look elsewhere. But if you want quality, elegant design, and support one of the biggest innovators, Surefire is the only choice.

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I couldn't agree more!

To me, it sounds like a decision between buying a Mac and a PC. Sure the Mac costs more and the PC supposedly has "better" specs, but at the very least you don't need to throw the Mac away every 2-3 years(5 if you push it) and buy a new one.

I've also never heard any complaints so far about Surefire as far as product defects go.

I was personally thinking about a Surefire 6P body with a Nailbender SST-90 drop-in, but installation seemed a bit complicated, the direct drive sounds like the light would get dimmer as the battery drained, and the inability to take RCR123 cells kind of takes out the economical(rechargable) option.

I don't think the Mac/PC is a good analogy for this case... the main difference between them is operational system, not hardware. I'm a Mac user for a very long time, and use them because Mac OS is much superior to anything else. By the way Macs don't cost more, if you take for example a good hardware like Dell, with the same specs, they're equal in price or the Dell is more expensive.

Again?