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Thread: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

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    Flashaholic* lucca brassi's Avatar
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    Exclamation Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    More light , full specter , low consumption , small volume bulb

    http://www.luxim.com/

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    Flashaholic* CampingLED's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    Looks very interesting. Does seem to be aimed at the higher output lights (400W). Do not see enough info to compare the efficiency to e.g. HID and LED.
    Waiting for the light at the end of the tunnel? Well stride down there and light the damn thing yourself! - Samantha O'Connor

  3. #3

    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    any graphs on the spectrum? I'm intersted in what it does in the near infrared. Information is a bit vague I must say.
    Edit: nevermind, found datasheets that have the information I was looking for
    On the other hand, 23000 lumen and 50000hours burn time is impressive.

    This is probably not very useful for divelights, but I can think of some usefull applications at work...
    Last edited by jspeybro; 04-07-2010 at 06:51 AM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    That looks really interesting. Anyone know more details? Maybe it needs too much voltage for handheld lights...

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    Flashaholic* lucca brassi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    I give this link because of interesting principle.

    In fact it is between SST-90 (9,5A) and Osram Ostar which needs higher voltage (from 21 on 28V) and size is OK.

    In base it is naked HID bulb without anything in microwave owen.

    But RF and EMC.... in the water.... but HID works with very high voltage and nobody complains.

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    Flashaholic* rayman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    Looks very interesting but kind of expensive . Would be great for a spotlight.


    rayman
    My Lights (current favourite: Maglite 2D XM-L2 mod; current EDC: Olight i1 SS)

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    Flashaholic* lucca brassi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    H should cover pricewith their overexpensive lights but profit will be lower

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    Flashaholic* Packhorse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    Quote Originally Posted by rayman View Post
    Looks very interesting but kind of expensive . Would be great for a spotlight.


    rayman
    $$ per lumen I thought it wasnt too bad.

    But I think it will a while until we can get to use this technology underwater if at all.

  9. #9
    Flashaholic* lucca brassi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    Agree with Packhorse

    Offtopic:
    if someone interested in the history of similar lamp:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfur_lamp

  10. #10
    Enlightened
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    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    Is that me or components look quite big ?

    in a well integrated case, cooling of components isnt a factor in diving.

    RadioFrequency cable are verry sensitive in some application.

    Here in quebec, it has happen to waterproof cables a summer day, the relative humidity was really high, and during winter, caused dew in connector causing intermitent troubles when sun shined on black cables.
    A single drop of water in a such cable could kill power transmission in sensitive frequencies....

    As Lucca Brassi told
    RF and EMC.... in the water.... but HID works with very high voltage and nobody complains.

    A guy here busted his Voltmeter (usualy 1000v on ac) measuring HID startop voltage while modding a HID car ballast

    As an RF technician i dont like the idea of an electrical problem in water, with canister on my back and ballast running 80-90v on my left hand, with me acting as a third conductor in murky/salt water .....

    Im currently direct driving sst90 with protected 18650 Li-Ions


    Just my toughts !

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    Flashaholic* lucca brassi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    My letter is only about showing interesting information about light design and principies. In water we normaly want light , but because of focusing , crossing lens and other optical problems from the source it has been a lot of it lost - that's why let say stronger source.

    Whatewer of principies light must be designed in that way , that is safe and safe in the water. That tells everything.

    as Conficius said once '' NO BRAIN ... NO PAIN '' and it works :-)
    Last edited by lucca brassi; 04-11-2010 at 03:23 AM.

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    Enlightened imnata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grytpype View Post
    That looks really interesting. Anyone know more details? Maybe it needs too much voltage for handheld lights...
    Some graphs that I found mostly on ReefBuilder blog. Below are the links.

    http://www.treehugger.com/luxim-bulb-001.jpg

    http://reefbuilders.com/wp-content/b...ral-output.jpg

    http://reefbuilders.com/wp-content/b...trograph_0.png


    Hotlinked/oversized images changed to links

    http://reefbuilders.com/2010/02/02/n...itial-pricing/
    http://reefbuilders.com/2010/03/02/s...-power-levels/
    http://reefbuilders.com/2010/01/26/c...sts-launching/
    Last edited by Unforgiven; 06-09-2010 at 08:34 AM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    I'll be buying the demo kit for testing at work. If you're interested I can post some pics but that will take some weeks since the lead time is about 1 month.

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    Enlightened imnata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    That would be very nice.

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    Flashaholic* lucca brassi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    Be carefull with microwaves

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    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_lamp

    That being said, this has the same basic physics of operation of a HID lamp. Except instead of using an electric current to ionize the plasma, RF waves are used instead.

    Luxim's innovation to the technology appears to be to use solid-state technology to generate the RF waves instead of the conventional (and highly electrically inefficient) magnetron.

    I am a bit worried about the effects these RF emissions held close to the body as in typical flashlight situations. It appears the lower limit of power of these lamps are 100W. By comparison, a typical cellphone only uses milliwatts of power for transmission.

    However, since the power of a signal drops off at the square root of the distance (assuming the 2-dimensional emission area of a solid state chip), it's probably safe to use these in commercial lighting applications.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    Quote Originally Posted by lucca brassi View Post
    Be carefull with microwaves
    Don't worry, I'm going to test it for my work, so that has nothing to do with dive lights, just illumination.

    actually, another advantage of the luxim technology over HID is that HID needs electrodes between which an electric arc is created. These electrodes degrade over time. In the luxim bulbs, there is just glass with some gass in it that is heated into a plasma, so nothing is degrading over time (at least, that's the theory).

    I think these bulbs are a bit too powerfull to use in a divelight.

  18. #18
    Flashaholic* TorchBoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    I think we CPFers got temporarily excited about LEP lamps a couple of years ago until we realised that the system efficiency needed to include the efficiency of the microwave generator, at only about 50%.

    Quote Originally Posted by CampingLED View Post
    Do not see enough info to compare the efficiency to e.g. HID and LED.
    On the home page I see Product: Tesla 400 Description: The new Tesla 400 fixture produces 73 lumens per watt, ... Is that what you meant?
    No, a torch does not always mean flames.
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    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    Dive Lighting is not the correct place for this. It belongs in Fixed Lighting, so I'm moving it there.
    Resistance is futile...

  20. #20

    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    I think these bulbs are a bit too powerfull to use in a divelight.
    There's no such thing as too much light when you're diving (if you don't care about the fish, that is).

    Has anyone seen any papers on solid-state RF technology? I'm curious as to the technical specifics. I'm doing graduate course work on solid state device physics and as far as I know, when people want high RF power, there's invariably an amplifier and antennas involved. Technically though, I suppose amplifiers are for the most part solid state now, but I wonder if they use antennas to make this work.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    I think this would be rather awesome for my garage. I was looking to spend a couple of hundred anyway with fluorescents and fixtures- about 200 and this is promising a few dozen more lumens, give or take.

    Then again, it would also make a pretty kick ass grow lamp- and cheaper than LED- and I could still always supplement the light with LED on bars.

    Very interesting- I can't find anyone else that sells them.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    Look into LVD or induction lamps.

    I have a single 23w LVD bulb that puts CFL's to shame. And, I couldn't find an E26/E27 LED bulb that produces the open flood of the LVD.

    lvdbulbs.com has some info.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the amusing video on the linked page. Now those are some serious eyebrows (Andy Rooney lampoon, I guess).

    Entertaining...

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    Flashaholic* TorchBoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    Quote Originally Posted by deadrx7conv View Post
    Look into LVD or induction lamps.
    The still have mercury in them, right?
    No, a torch does not always mean flames.
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    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)


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    Flashaholic* AnAppleSnail's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    Quote Originally Posted by deadrx7conv View Post
    Hmm. Mercury comparison
    This page says "Due to the combination of longer bulbs life, and increased efficiency, LVD bulbs can decrease overall mercury contamination by more than 90% compared to fluorescent bulbs."


    My research indicates that inductive lighting uses mercury amalgam, which is less polluting than the liquid mercury used in CFLs. I am somewhat sure that this flood light, with 3 mg of mercury, has about 1/5th the mercury of a CFL, but it is an LVD bulb.
    3 mg mercury floodlight where again, the difference claimed is "Less mercury, and less harmful mercury." But not "No mercury."
    My biggest light-hog is my camera.

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    Flashaholic* TorchBoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    Quote Originally Posted by deadrx7conv View Post
    In the light of the mercury page, if I understand what the comparison page is actually saying, they're claiming no mercury waste because the bulb was still going at the end of 10 years. That's highly deceptive because it is not the same as no mercury in the bulbs.

    The latest figure I heard for mercury in a CFL was 5 mg.
    No, a torch does not always mean flames.
    Ian.
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  28. #28

    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    Induction light technology is absurdly under-rated and is perhaps the most promising technology on the near horizon. At this point I don't see LED going much of anywhere except for directional lighting applications.

    However, I really wish we'd stop seeing references towards 'photopic' vision when it's in the best interest of marketing the product.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    I stand corrected. It has a mercury slug but not liquid/gaseous. So, less of a hazard and more easily recycled/reused.

    Most of my CFLs failed when the glass broke or cracked(too many heat cycles??). So, all that CFL mercury is in my kitchen/livingroom/diningroom....in my lungs and maybe on my food too. I don't have that fear with LVD since you can actually break off the mercury amalgam, stick it in an envelope, and mail it to the recycler. And, unless it explodes completely, you don't have to worry about the mercury(liquid or gas) in your environment.

    I think that induction is seriously under marketed. Its the perfect quick/easy replacement for ALL CFLs, HPS/LPS halide street lighting..... without the LED hassle. Bulb life is extremely long. We're at ~100lm/w already. Simple unscrew old bulb and screw in a new LVD bulb retrofit capability. Excellent CRI. But, as we know, lobbyists control our choices.

    I love my LED lighting, as I have a couple bulbs with 2x3 Cree(6watt) and some that are 9w. They run hot. If you search ebay for: "G60 LED -flashlight" or "L11 e27 led", you'll see some of the bulbs that I've used for a couple years now. I was never impressed by the LED bulbs sold at LowesHomedepotTargetWalmart and some of those catalogue shops(usually grossly overpriced). But, it looks like that ccrane and earthled... have seriously reduced their 'profit margin' compared to a year or 2 ago. Those $150 LED bulbs from 2 years ago, were $100 last year, and now are $50.

    The LED lighting is definitely directional but I have a frosted 6w LED bulb that has good all around output but is about equivalent to a 25-40w incan. No way will it replace a 60w incan which is minimal for the lighting I need. It shares a 2 bulb fixture with a 15w CFL. The LED/CFL combo is a great match in your typical enclosed 2 bulb fixture. LED bulb is instant full on and the CFL catches up to and passes its output after a warm up.

    The L11 e27 LED is directional as most of it is heatsink. 9w's is a limit and larger heatsink mass or fan cooling will be needed if anything stronger is used. This is the perfect shower bulb as the shower bulb points straight down through a ripple glass fixture lens. Because it points down, this 9w LED bulb is equivalent to a 75w incan in the shower fixture. But, the 6w is brighter than the 9w when used to light a room. That directional issue shows as the 6watter glows the entire room and the 9watter lights up the opposite wall like a strong flashlight and you rely on light reflection. Maybe I should paint all the walls/ceiling with reflective paint then those directional LEDs would be more tolerable.

    One thing I don't like about CFL is that I always have to step up the size to make up for warm up and normal decrease in lighting over time. I prefer the 15w-20w CFL to replace the 60w incan, even though most comparison charts show 12-14w CFL as a 60w incan equivalent. And, most of my 75w incans were replaced with 19w-24w CFLs. 30w CFLs to replace the garage ceiling 100w incans. I'm pretty close to incan/3 to pick my CFL light. Most charts are incan÷4 to pick a CFL size. Usually that means my lighting is a tad more brighter when the CFL's are fully warmed up. Also can guess that incan÷5, ÷6, or ÷7 for choosing my LEDs over incans even though marketers make it seem that incan÷10 should help you pick an LED bulb. Not for me!

    Incan's and CFL's work better in many fixtures since the bulbs sit sideways. Not too good for LEDs as they're best in a fixture that points the bulb where you want the light. So, fixtures needs to be redesigned and have more 'reflector' material on top to move the light into your room.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Beyond ,HID,LED.....is LEP (light emiting plasma)

    But, as we know, lobbyists control our choices.
    I don't think I can let off consumers that easy

    Buying decisions in regards to these products are pretty much dictated by what's available at Big Box stores which are nothing more than showrooms full of junk from China. As I've said in numerous threads, we treat these stores as the apex of technology because we're too lazy to think otherwise or do some R&D. As far as I'm concerned we could almost yank kids out of school and put them to work full time at Home Depot and Walmart because what's available in the aisles is all they'll ever need to know about technology, right?

    While the induction screw in style bulbs linked to the site above have excellent advertised lifetimes, I have to be concered because there aren't more types of induction type bulbs on the market. If they were as popular as standard CFLs, I'm convinced that even induction bulbs would start to suffer longevity issues as the price and quality plummeted.

    Which brings me to a controversial conclusion that if we really want to get western consumers to make the right decisions, then rather than trying to legislate light bulb formats why not just put a tax on anything that screws directly into an E27 socket? Think about it - no conventional bulb that plugs directly into mains is that efficient, LED retrofits are a joke in denial, and screw in CFLs are mostly junk and have a fraction the lifespan of dedicated fixtures and ballasts. While were at it, an energy credit for new homes built without E27 sockets. The new technologies aren't the problem - it's legacy bulbs formats that are the problem. Why should an induction bulb suffer a 50-75% longevity hit because it screws into a E27 socket? Same with LEDs and fluorescents.

    I realize there's always a cost increase in regards to dedicated fixtures -vs- being a bit lazy and just connecting something directly to mains and screwing it in. However, I've seen a lot of wives get dirty looks from their husbands when they buy a fugly $200 lamp Falls under 'dedicated fixture' if you ask me.

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