Malkoff        
Results 1 to 27 of 27

Thread: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

  1. #1
    Flashaholic brted's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    345

    Default NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    I got one of these today from Shining Beam. This is a 3-mode version. DX sells a 16-mode version where modes are in 3 groups (one of which is 3 modes) and the DX one is missing one of the 7135's.

    I notice that the SB version uses a newer ATMEL chip than the DX version (TINY13A instead of TINY13V) and that the two lower right legs of the ATMEL chip seem to be bridged. I wonder what would happen if those were not bridged? Would it become like the DX chip? If you bridged the legs of the DX chip, would it be fixed in 3 modes like this one? I know ATMEL chips can be programmed differently, but these two drivers even have the same model number.

    I haven't had a chance to install this in anything since I am waiting to use it with an XP-G LED that I haven't gotten yet. But here's a picture.



    At DX:

    http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7612

    At ShiningBeam

    http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/t...Circuit/Detail

  2. #2
    Flashaholic* TorchBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,494

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    FWIW the DX 16 mode driver now has 17 modes, since the third group now has 9 modes.
    No, a torch does not always mean flames.
    Ian.
    LED Driver List - now database driven and with new search features.

  3. #3
    Flashaholic* Black Rose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Posts
    4,627

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    I have a couple of these drivers, along with a pair of XP-G R4s - all coming from Shiningbeam.

    I will be putting one driver and an XP-G R4 in a DX sku 15687 DIY flashlight body kit.

    The other is to repair/upgrade the DX XP-G single mode drop-in I bought that self destructed (LED separated from the MCPCB ).

  4. #4
    Flashaholic* Black Rose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Posts
    4,627

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    I installed this driver in a DX DIY kit (Aurora V6) today with an XP-G R4.

    Driver and LED were both bought from Shiningbeam.

    With an AW 2200 mAh protected 18650, current draw at the tail:
    [CODE]
    Mode Current
    Low 60 mA
    Medium 440 mA
    High 1420 mA[/CODE]

    With a pair of Titanium Innovations CR123A cells, current draw at the tail:
    [CODE]
    Mode Current
    Low 80 mA
    Medium 450 mA
    High 1420 mA[/CODE]

    Medium mode whines whether powered by a Li-Ion cell or a pair of CR123A cells.

    Memory works well most of the time.
    Sometimes it will come on in the same mode as when shut off. Other times it will come on in the next mode.

    EDIT: If you are viewing this as a single post from CPFMP, select the Thread link in the upper right corner to see brted's explanation of the mode memory feature in the next post.
    Last edited by Black Rose; 04-19-2010 at 08:13 AM.

  5. #5
    Flashaholic brted's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    345

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    The NANJG 112A driver bases the memory on how long the light is on (rather than off like most drivers). If the light is on for more than a few seconds, it will remember the mode, otherwise it will go to the next mode when it is turned back on (whether it is off for an instant or for weeks). Likewise, if the light has been on for a while and you half-press to change modes, it won't work the first time because that mode is memorized. So you have to half-press twice. Is that what is going on?

    That's scary about the current draw with two batteries. Even with the higher voltage of 2xCR123A it is drawing the same current. My guess is that since it is using linear regulators, it is just wasting the extra voltage as heat, so you're better off using one battery.

    Sounds like a very low Low though. ShiningBeam was saying 120mA and 350mA, so what you are getting is a better spread, though maybe SB's numbers are for what the LED is seeing instead of what is being drawn at the tail. Disappointing that it whines.

    Thanks for the update. Hopefully I will get all the parts I need to put mine to use soon.

    More info about people using this board with the DX XP-G drop-in here.
    Last edited by brted; 04-19-2010 at 10:35 AM.

  6. #6
    Flashaholic* Linger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Kingston ON
    Posts
    1,437

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    yes the 7135's let 300-350ma through at set voltage, and waste what-ever over voltage there is. So all other things being equal, vbatt of 3.9v vs vbatt 6.0v, the 3.9v will produce same forward current to the emitter, and less waste heat. While the vbatt. 6.0v will waste more energy and produce more waste heat.
    Installing Quantum Tunneling Composite (QTC) into M@glite Solitare

  7. #7
    Flashaholic* Black Rose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Posts
    4,627

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    Quote Originally Posted by brted View Post
    Sounds like a very low Low though.
    The low with the XP-G R4 is about the same as the medium on the iTP A3 EOS.

    The modes operate exactly like you wrote in that review of the NANJG 112A.
    The two half-presses to change modes after mode memory sets in threw me off initially. Now that I know what's going on it's not an issue.

    While looking at your review I had to do another test. PWM is not noticeable in low or medium modes.

    Disappointing that it whines.
    It's not that bad. You can only hear the whining if you put it within a foot of your ear.

    I have another one that is going into a P60 drop-in.
    If that one whines, then I'd say it's just the way it's designed.

    Overall, not a bad deal on a 3-mode driver without disco modes.
    Last edited by Black Rose; 04-18-2010 at 05:59 PM.

  8. #8
    Flashaholic* TorchBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,494

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Rose View Post
    It's not that bad. You can only hear the whining if you put it within a foot of your ear.

    I have another one that is going into a P60 drop-in.
    If that one whines, then I'd say it's just the way it's designed.
    A multimode, multi-LED driver I made recently using DX's 17 mode board to control the modes whines quietly in medium and whines very quietly on low. I don't know what's making the noise but that's certainly what happens. The PWM frequency on that driver is 4.7 kHz.
    No, a torch does not always mean flames.
    Ian.
    LED Driver List - now database driven and with new search features.

  9. #9
    Flashaholic aurum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Lower Saxony, Germany, Planet Melmac
    Posts
    256

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    I don't know what's making the noise but that's certainly what happens. The PWM frequency on that driver is 4.7 kHz. __________________
    No, a torch does not always mean flames.
    That's because of the resonance frequency (= PWM frequency -> 4.7 kHz) of some parts of the driver ... You could try to put some epoxy/glue onto the driver. Sometimes it helpes because the resonance frequency of the parts which produce the noise changes.

  10. #10
    Flashaholic* Linger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Kingston ON
    Posts
    1,437

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    AFAIK it's a resonance, it's the components humming under the frequency used to modulate the current.
    Potting ends the whine. (not sure if its b/c it dampens the vibrating)
    Installing Quantum Tunneling Composite (QTC) into M@glite Solitare

  11. #11
    Flashaholic* old4570's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Melbourne - Australia
    Posts
    2,729

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    Got two of these drivers in anticipation of the S2 , + another driver from KD that pushes 1.4/1.5A to the LED ..

    I have enough R5's , time to plan for the S2 .

  12. #12
    Flashaholic* TorchBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,494

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    Yeah, I suppose the whine is around 4.7 kHz. That's very interesting. So it's the components physically vibrating, because of ... what? That's the bit I don't understand. If there was a coil I'd understand it was something like magnetic fields causing a physical change in its shape.
    No, a torch does not always mean flames.
    Ian.
    LED Driver List - now database driven and with new search features.

  13. #13
    Flashaholic aurum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Lower Saxony, Germany, Planet Melmac
    Posts
    256

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    So it's the components physically vibrating, because of ... what?
    because of the PWM frequency is equal to the resonance frequency of some parts ... I#m not able to explain it in English:

    Es reicht, dass sich das Teil z.B. leicht erwärmt und dann wieder asymmetrisch abkühlt (also nicht überall gleich viel). Das Beuteil verzieht sich im nicht messbaren Bereich ... Das reicht aber schon. Das schwingungsfähige System wird mit seiner Eigenfrequenz durch Energiezufuhr angeregt. Die Phasenverschiebung zwischen Erreger und der erzwungenen Schwingung beträgt in der Regel ~90°, dem System wird stetig (im optimalfall, also 90° Phasenverschiebung, eine maximale Menge) Energie zugeführt und die Schwingung, welche ursprünglich durch den thermischen Verzug induziert wurde, schaukelt sich auf.

    Man kann dem Phänomen aus dem Weg gehen, indem man die PWM Frequenz anpasst (Die Phasenverschiebung darf keine 90° betragen).

    Kann das mal wer übersetzten?

  14. #14
    Flashaholic* TorchBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,494

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    Off to Google...

    Hm... If I understand you correctly you're saying that thermal expansion and shrinking caused by the current at 4.7 kHz, while not great enough to be measurable itself, is enough to create and drive a resonance in a component that just happens to have its resonant frequency at around that frequency, and that the oscillation of the current and the oscillation of the whine will be 90° out of phase. Hmmm. Is that roughly right?

    Thanks for trying to explain this.
    No, a torch does not always mean flames.
    Ian.
    LED Driver List - now database driven and with new search features.

  15. #15
    Flashaholic aurum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Lower Saxony, Germany, Planet Melmac
    Posts
    256

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    Hmmm. Is that roughly right?
    I think so ^^ ... my english is not the best.

    is enough to create and drive a resonance in a component that just happens to have its resonant frequency at around that frequency,
    That's the point ...

    Resonances occur when a system is able to store and easily transfer energy between two or more different storage modes (such as kinetic energy and potential energy in the case of a pendulum). However, there are some losses from cycle to cycle, called damping. When damping is small, the resonant frequency is approximately equal to a natural frequency of the system, which is a frequency of unforced vibrations. Some systems have multiple, distinct, resonant frequencies.
    Here it is called "damping" .... that's the reason why the oscillation has to be 90° out of phase. Damping is very low/min. /very small when the phase displacement/displacement of phase/phase lag is 90°.


    thermal expansion and shrinking caused by the current
    That's just an example ... There might be also some magnetic/electric fields which are the reason for the resonance for some components. The reason for the resonance differs depending on the parts (capacity/resistor/inductance).
    Last edited by aurum; 04-21-2010 at 07:07 AM.

  16. #16
    Flashaholic brted's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    345

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    I finally installed my driver in a drop-in with a neutral white XP-G R4 from Cutter. The reflector from the empty drop-in isn't perfect (made for XR-E) but I really like the combination of this driver and that LED. It's a nice tint and the driver works quite well except for that funky On-memory. I notice a little whine in medium sometimes, but not always. I posted some data on driver output and efficiency at the link below. On a fresh 18650, it supplies 1.2A to the LED (drawing 1.4 at the tail) and has an efficiency of 66-68% (got better results in a second test a few posts down) before dropping off to 56% when the battery is down to 3.6V and the driver seems to be out of regulation. I was hoping for a little better than that, but I'm pleased with how bright the light is and I like not having flashy modes. I would definitely buy this driver again.
    Last edited by Norm; 12-23-2012 at 07:10 PM.

  17. #17
    Flashaholic* ti-force's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Georgia, U.S.
    Posts
    1,266

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    I've used the 2.8A version a couple of times and I recently used the 1.4A version in one of my Quark 123-2's with an XP-G R5 emitter. I've been extremely pleased with these drivers too.

  18. #18

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    Quote Originally Posted by brted View Post
    I finally installed my driver in a drop-in with a neutral white XP-G R4 from Cutter. The reflector from the empty drop-in isn't perfect (made for XR-E) but I really like the combination of this driver and that LED. It's a nice tint and the driver works quite well except for that funky On-memory. I notice a little whine in medium sometimes, but not always. I posted some data on driver output and efficiency at the link below. On a fresh 18650, it supplies 1.2A to the LED (drawing 1.4 at the tail) and has an efficiency of 66-68% before dropping off to 56% when the battery is down to 3.6V and the driver seems to be out of regulation. I was hoping for a little better than that, but I'm pleased with how bright the light is and I like not having flashy modes. I would definitely buy this driver again.

    Something seems wrong. With the 7135, your drive current should match your tail current. Also drive efficiency is essentially Vf/Vbatt. Your calculated efficiencies seem anomalously low. Your drive currents also seem to drop far too much for such small changes in Vf. With the voltage overhead you appear to be getting even at Vin = 3.54V, you should be running in full regulation and thus getting 1.4A drive.
    Last edited by Norm; 12-23-2012 at 07:10 PM.

  19. #19
    Flashaholic brted's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    345

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Case View Post
    Something seems wrong. With the 7135, your drive current should match your tail current. Also drive efficiency is essentially Vf/Vbatt. Your calculated efficiencies seem anomalously low. Your drive currents also seem to drop far too much for such small changes in Vf. With the voltage overhead you appear to be getting even at Vin = 3.54V, you should be running in full regulation and thus getting 1.4A drive.
    I'd like to see someone else do some tests and see how different it is. I'm not 100% confident that I wasn't having some significant resistance through the connections and wires I was using. And of course measuring the voltage and amperage is a moving target sometimes, so I would wait for it to stabilize a little, maybe about 10 seconds before I took a reading I was happy with. But the latter wouldn't make a difference of more than a couple of percent. I definitely have a low-tech setup. For current measurements, does it matter if you measure on the + side or the - side of the LED?

  20. #20
    Flashaholic brted's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    345

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    I did another round of tests this weekend and posted the results at the link I posted previously. This time the efficiency was higher, 72-82%. I was also testing a 3x7135 DX driver, the NANJG AK47, and saw efficiencies of 85-92%. The biggest difference (other than the higher current draw of the 4x7135 driver) is the voltage drop across the LED which for the Shiningbeam driver is right around 3.04V whereas for the DX driver it is 3.37V. That really drops the calculated power out.

  21. #21
    Flashaholic* TorchBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,494

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    Quote Originally Posted by brted View Post
    The biggest difference (other than the higher current draw of the 4x7135 driver) is the voltage drop across the LED which for the Shiningbeam driver is right around 3.04V whereas for the DX driver it is 3.37V. That really drops the calculated power out.
    You're not saying the same LED draws the same current at 3.04 V or 3.37 V depending on which driver you're using, are you?
    No, a torch does not always mean flames.
    Ian.
    LED Driver List - now database driven and with new search features.

  22. #22
    Flashaholic brted's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    345

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    Quote Originally Posted by TorchBoy View Post
    You're not saying the same LED draws the same current at 3.04 V or 3.37 V depending on which driver you're using, are you?
    No. I was testing two drivers with two different LED's, so the more efficient driver was using a different LED. But I did get different current readings on this LED even though the voltage drop across the LED was about the same. For instance, with a full battery at 4.2V the current was 1.38A and the voltage drop was 3.04V. With a battery at 3.8V the current was 1.06A, but the voltage drop was still 3.04V.

  23. #23
    Flashaholic* TorchBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,494

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    It all seems very strange, and it still sounds like there's something wrong with those measurements. 1.38 A with the DX driver? It has 3x AMC7135, right?
    No, a torch does not always mean flames.
    Ian.
    LED Driver List - now database driven and with new search features.

  24. #24

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    I used this driver board (Shiningbeam SKU 1812) to mod a UltraFire 502B with the R5 module (may driver boards in this model were DOA like mine). I really like the results and it has become one of my most used flashlights. See my link here to the mod and how the board fit into the module with pictures:

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...4&postcount=24

    I really like the driver and the service from Bryan at Shiningbeam!

    Lightwise

  25. #25
    Flashaholic brted's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    345

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    Quote Originally Posted by TorchBoy View Post
    It all seems very strange, and it still sounds like there's something wrong with those measurements. 1.38 A with the DX driver? It has 3x AMC7135, right?
    Sorry, the ShiningBeam 101-AK with 4x7135 delivers 1.38A. The AK-47 driver with 3x7135 is delivering 1.07A. But the voltages are very different. The 101-AK is only seeing a 3.04V drop across its LED while the AK-47 sees 3.37V. Both are driving XP-G LED's. It seems like the voltage drop should be higher with more current, but I don't know what is going on exactly.

  26. #26
    Flashaholic* old4570's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Melbourne - Australia
    Posts
    2,729

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    I built one with a XP-G R5 ...

    Lo = 0.07A 22Lux
    Med = 0.45A 135Lux
    Hi = 1.43A 366Lux

    A comparable XP_G R5 for comparison ... [ well 2 of them ]

    Lo = 0.24A 40Lux
    Med = 0.58A 88Lux
    Hi = 1.69A 400Lux

    Lo = 0.15A 36Lux
    Med = 0.84A 214Lux
    Hi = 1.84A 372Lux

  27. #27
    Flashaholic
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    U.S.A.
    Posts
    106

    Default Re: NANJG 101-AK 1400mA 3-mode driver

    Will there be a visible difference in brightness using the shiningbeam version over the dx?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •