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Thread: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA

  1. #181
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    Default Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA

    Anyone know if the xm-l die size is smaller than mc-e?

    Using boom-ss reflectors I'm hoping that xm-l will throw a little bit better than mc-e...

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    Default Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA

    Quote Originally Posted by longleg View Post
    Anyone know if the xm-l die size is smaller than mc-e?
    According to the discussion it's 2x2mm (4mm^2) so the same size as the MC-E but without the gaps.

  3. #183
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    Default Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA

    In that case - XM-L should give pretty much the same beam pattern as the MC-E with the same optics? Without the cross in the middle of course.

  4. #184

    Default Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA

    Any word yet if it will be possible to have a p60 dropping made with 3 xm-L leds. Just got my oveready triple xp-g and already burning for something even more powerful...its official I'm sick !

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    Default Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA

    Does anyone know the exact area of the emitting surface? Because at 750lm this thing will go great in a aspheric Mag.

  6. #186
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    Default Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA

    The dispersion pattern is too wide for an aspheric, unless of course you are using pre-colimators etc.
    HL

  7. #187

    Default Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA

    I think coliminator or whatever lenses are more efficient anyway.
    Life is good

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    Default Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA

    When you say dispersion pattern, are you referring to the angle of light that is emitted? I can see why that would be a problem, how would a coliminator fix that?

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    Default Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA

    Quote Originally Posted by longleg View Post
    In that case - XM-L should give pretty much the same beam pattern as the MC-E with the same optics? Without the cross in the middle of course.
    I'm guessing it won't be the same. The XM-L comes in different packaging with a different primary optic, also the lack of a cross in the middle should should significantly improve the throw.

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    Default Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA

    Quote Originally Posted by SmurfTacular View Post
    When you say dispersion pattern, are you referring to the angle of light that is emitted? I can see why that would be a problem, how would a coliminator fix that?
    An aspheric is usually a lens some distance away from the LED. All the side going light hits the side of the head and is lost.
    A collimator is shaped like a reflector. Sideways going light is reflected forward by Total Internal Reflection just like in a prism in the old style binoculars. The difference between a collimator and a reflector is that there is a lens at the bottom of the lump of plastic or glass which captures the light that misses the sides and shoots it forward and fills the donut hole. So you get a solid beam of light, very little spill, and no donut hole.

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    Default Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA

    This is Google's cache of http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=270517&page=8. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Feb 26, 2011 16:48:33 GMT (THIS WAS PAGE 8 OF 9)

    B]Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA[/B]
    Written by jellydonut on 11-10-2010 03:54 PM GMT
    Quote Originally Posted by whosywhat
    I'm comparing a single XM-L to a triple XP-G. It sounds like the XM-L will be much cheaper, but from the data sheet, but it doesn't seem to offer more output or better efficiency.
    Can someone check my calculations?
    XM-L (T6)
    Output @ 700ma: 280lm
    Output @ 3A: (325% of 280lm) = 910lm
    Vf @ 3A = 3.35
    Power @ 3A = 10W
    910lm @ 10W
    Triple XP-G R5
    1100lm @ 10W
    and... you can go to 1450lm @ 15W.
    I know the XM-L has much better thermal resistance (2.5 vs 6) which is probably a big deal, but I don't have a good idea about what those numbers mean.
    The lower you drive an LED the more efficient it is. It then follows that the more LEDs you have running the more efficient the complete setup will be. The lower you drive an LED the more efficient it is. It then follows that the more LEDs you have running the more efficient the complete setup will be.
    However, a single, single-die LED cannot be compared to a triple-LED setup unless all you want is flood. The XM-L in a smooth reflector is going to stomp on a triple XP-G setup, completely different use case.


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by DarkoMaledictus on 11-10-2010 04:22 PM GMT
    Quote Originally Posted by jellydonut
    The lower you drive an LED the more efficient it is. It then follows that the more LEDs you have running the more efficient the complete setup will be.
    However, a single, single-die LED cannot be compared to a triple-LED setup unless all you want is flood. The XM-L in a smooth reflector is going to stomp on a triple XP-G setup, completely different use case.
    Flood is a very nice thing to have in the woods. I have both a triple xpg and a sst-50 p60 droppins and they both function very well for their intended uses. But a triple xm-l p60 droppins would be a dream come true... but at 5x5 it might be a bit too big for that application Flood is a very nice thing to have in the woods. I have both a triple xpg and a sst-50 p60 droppins and they both function very well for their intended uses. But a triple xm-l p60 droppins would be a dream come true... but at 5x5 it might be a bit too big for that application !


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by MichaelW on 11-10-2010 05:32 PM GMT
    I hope that Cree gets warm-white & neutral-white out quickly.
    T5 warm
    T6 neutral
    U2 cool
    everyone wins!
    So when does the ez1400 die show up in the xm-l package?


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by RedmEx on 11-11-2010 01:22 AM GMT
    Quote Originally Posted by whosywhat
    I'm comparing a single XM-L to a triple XP-G. It sounds like the XM-L will be much cheaper, but from the data sheet, but it doesn't seem to offer more output or better efficiency.
    Can someone check my calculations?...
    Well, as Well, as stated here earlier[/url], you should compare similar die sizes, so as the XM-L are is expected to be twice the XP-G, the fair comparison would be a double XM-L to a quad XP-G.
    Go ahead an recalculate, so you'll find out the lumens and prices won't be to much of a difference, so secondary influences like electronics (drivers) and optics come into play ...
    RedmEx


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by longleg on 11-11-2010 01:22 AM GMT
    Quote Originally Posted by Pliauga
    At least there are no reflectors for the XM-Ls out yet, then I would surely be
    If the die size is the same as MC-E, why not use e.g. Boom reflectors? I at least plan to test it. If the die size is the same as MC-E, why not use e.g. Boom reflectors? I at least plan to test it.
    If XM-L + Boom SS only gives a little better throw than MC-E with Boom SS, then I'm sold.
    Then you can keep a 20mm dia size of the light, and not having to go up to e.g. the Fraen 35m reflector to get decent throw.


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by matthewm on 11-11-2010 03:14 AM GMT
    Something special is in the works. Attached is photos of a single CREE XM-L (low bin) and a four 'undisclosed' optics
    Tight = ±4
    http://img811.imageshack.us/i/tightp.jpg/

    Medium2= ±10
    http://img824.imageshack.us/i/tightk.jpg/

    Medium = ±12
    http://img543.imageshack.us/i/mediumk.jpg/

    Wide = ±18
    http://img834.imageshack.us/i/widey.jpg/


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by znomit on 11-11-2010 03:19 AM GMT
    Quote Originally Posted by matthewm
    Something special is in the works. Attached is photos of a single CREE XM-L (low bin) and a three 'undisclosed' optics
    Tight= ±10
    Medium = ±12
    Wide = ±18
    Since when is tight 20 degrees? Since when is tight 20 degrees?


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by matthewm on 11-11-2010 06:52 AM GMT
    Quote Originally Posted by znomit
    Since when is tight 20 degrees?
    Fixed. Mixed up the order. Fixed. Mixed up the order.


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by uk_caver on 11-11-2010 07:04 AM GMT
    It's kind-of hard to judge beamshots without a basis for comparison, or a scale+distance.
    Still, I guess that once the optics are disclosed, we can look at datasheets and make comparisons with other LEDs/optics from the figures and graphs there?


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by stu929 on 11-18-2010 04:33 PM GMT
    What driver would you use to power this? I am a noob to modding but I want to get my hand on one of there and make a 2*18650 3 mode if I can find an appropriate driver. Would a P7/MCE driver supply to needed 2500~3000ma or am I looking in the wrong direction?
    Thanks


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by saabluster on 11-18-2010 09:16 PM GMT
    Quote Originally Posted by stu929
    What driver would you use to power this? I am a noob to modding but I want to get my hand on one of there and make a 2*18650 3 mode if I can find an appropriate driver. Would a P7/MCE driver supply to needed 2500~3000ma or am I looking in the wrong direction?
    Thanks
    Yes a P7/MC-E driver would be perfect. Yes a P7/MC-E driver would be perfect.


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by Vinz on 11-22-2010 07:08 AM GMT
    Here are some measurements of the XM-L T6-1D, taken by an ulbricht-sphere:

    I found it on taobao.com, seller of the auction is 2a524, if I'm right.
    Regards,
    Vinz


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by Curt R on 11-22-2010 07:00 PM GMT
    That output information from Vinz fits the output graph that I made for the XM-L LED.
    At 350 mA 145L, 1000mA 385L, 1500mA 540L, 2000mA 680L, 3000mA 910L, 3600mA 1050L for the T6 bin.
    The T5 bin at 350mA 140L, 1000mA 350L, 1500mA 500L, 2000mA 630L, 3000mA 840L and at 3600mA 940L.
    For the XP-G R5 we have at 350mA 140L, 1000mA 345L and at 1500mA 460L.
    It would be hard to justify using the XM-L at under 1000mA of LED drive current for a 10% output increase
    with the T6 over the XP-G R5.
    That initial 160 Lumens per watt seems to have disappeared.
    Curt


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by JamisonM on 11-22-2010 08:25 PM GMT
    These seem like an upgraded XP-G. Slightly larger and able to run on twice the current.

    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by romteb on 11-22-2010 08:27 PM GMT
    Quote Originally Posted by Curt R
    That initial 160 Lumens per watt seems to have disappeared.
    Curt
    The U2 bin isn't available yet. The U2 bin isn't available yet.


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by imonlylumen on 11-22-2010 08:45 PM GMT
    So are there any optics or Multi XML mcpcb's out yet

    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by znomit on 11-22-2010 11:00 PM GMT
    Quote Originally Posted by imonlylumen
    So are there any optics or Multi XML mcpcb's out yet
    http://www.ledil.com/index.php?page=xm-l[/url]
    The EVA and the Iris look like the MCE optics.


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by RedmEx on 11-23-2010 12:58 AM GMT
    Quote Originally Posted by Curt R
    ...
    The T5 bin at 350mA 140L, 1000mA 350L, 1500mA 500L, 2000mA 630L, 3000mA 840L and at 3600mA 940L.
    For the XP-G R5 we have at 350mA 140L, 1000mA 345L and at 1500mA 460L.
    It would be hard to justify using the XM-L at under 1000mA of LED drive current for a 10% output increase with the T6 over the XP-G R5.
    ...
    Curt
    Hi Curt, maybe the gain in efficacy is mainly due to the lowered Vf. Could you please tell us input powers for your measurements ? Hi Curt, maybe the gain in efficacy is mainly due to the lowered Vf. Could you please tell us input powers for your measurements ?
    RedmEx


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by ergotelis on 11-23-2010 02:38 AM GMT
    Well i have to say that something is wrong with the data supplied. In all 0,5amp measurements you get a very good increase in output. Except the last one. Extra 0,5amp for 30 lumen only!Is this logical?I don't think!It might be in fact 985 lumen and not 885!
    Also, the vf is very high i think.
    Saablaster, please can we have your opinion on that graph and any answer on my questions?Thanks!


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by Vinz on 11-23-2010 07:40 AM GMT
    I think that's just an error. 985 lumen at 3A seems correctly.168,8 Lumen increase
    155,7 ...
    143 ...
    130 ...@ 985 Lumen
    On the other side it's over the specs.


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by txg on 11-23-2010 09:18 AM GMT
    the numbers so far don't look as good as expected. but what about higher drive currents? if you look at the output increase from 2.5 to 3 amps or 3 amps to 3.6 amps, it seems like the led is far away from leveling of at these currents. can someone test the led at 4.5 to 5 amps?
    with good cooling these currents should be no problem, Vf at 5A shouldn't be higher than 4V, so the led will run at 20W which equals to an increase of die temp of 50°C with a thermal resistance of 2,5°C/w.


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by Curt R on 11-23-2010 10:15 AM GMT
    At 2.5 Amps the output should be about 800 Lumens and not 855 as indicated. At the higher drives the LED is
    starting to fade faster in output due to the small thermal support area of the LED. In actual practice we will not see
    1000 Lumens at 3.6 Amps and probably a decline at 5 Amps. There is a difference in bench testing and the real
    world applications.
    At 160 Lumens with a drive current of 350 mA, I think that the bin would have to be U4 and not U2. 150 Lumens seems
    more reasonable. We will have to wait and see for more testing to be done, it is still to early for concrete results.
    Curt


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by recDNA on 12-08-2010 10:08 AM GMT
    Quote Originally Posted by JamisonM
    These seem like an upgraded XP-G. Slightly larger and able to run on twice the current.
    I hate that it's larger though. I'd like to see Cree go back to .9 mm size and make THAT more efficient! I wonder if anyone will ever make any smaller led's? I hate that it's larger though. I'd like to see Cree go back to .9 mm size and make THAT more efficient! I wonder if anyone will ever make any smaller led's?


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by shao.fu.tzer on 12-08-2010 10:46 AM GMT
    Maybe I missed it, but does anyone have an XM-L lying around that they can measure the dome on for me? Or does anyone have any info on what size the dome is? I want to play with these LEDs and TIR optics.
    Thanks,
    Shao


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by taschenlampe on 12-08-2010 11:09 AM GMT
    According to page 8 of the XM-L Data Sheet[/url] I would guess the dome is 4,5mm wide.
    tl

    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by shao.fu.tzer on 12-09-2010 09:14 AM GMT
    Quote Originally Posted by taschenlampe
    According to page 8 of the XM-L Data Sheet[/url] I would guess the dome is 4,5mm wide.
    tl
    Hey thanks for that... I'm a dummy... Hey thanks for that... I'm a dummy...


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by Helmut.G on 12-09-2010 09:31 AM GMT
    Quote Originally Posted by recDNA
    I hate that it's larger though. I'd like to see Cree go back to .9 mm size and make THAT more efficient! I wonder if anyone will ever make any smaller led's?
    I think I've read of a new light claiming to use a XP-E R3 recently. Can't remember any details however, maybe it was just a dream I think I've read of a new light claiming to use a XP-E R3 recently. Can't remember any details however, maybe it was just a dream

    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by uk_caver on 12-09-2010 09:39 AM GMT
    There are the high efficiency XP-Es, which do seem to potentially get up to R4
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...igh-Efficiency[/url]
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?270517-Cree-does-it-again-160-lumens-per-watt-350-mA&p=3620893#post3620893


    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by Helmut.G on 12-09-2010 09:44 AM GMT
    your link takes me back to my above post, was that your intention?

    Re: Cree does it again-160 lumens per watt @350 mA
    Written by uk_caver on 12-09-2010 09:58 AM GMT
    Corrected.
    14 Fenix; TK10, PD30, P3D, P2D, P1D, LD01, L0D, L1D, L2D, EagleTac; T100C2, RQ; 07 975-lm XM-L T6, MG; 700-lm PLI MC-E, UltraFire; 975-lm WF-501B XM-L T6, 800-lm WF-502B MC-E, WF-502B UV, Vector spotlights; 1800-lm 12v 130W H3 Halogen, 3500-lm POB 35W HID

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