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Thread: My options for something better.

  1. #1
    Flashaholic camaro09's Avatar
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    Wink2 My options for something better.

    I recently got a Surefire M6 and LOVE it. I live in a heavily wooded part of the country and need a good incan light for seeing in the trees. I really like the M6 for the sheer amount of light it puts out with the 500 lumen bulb, but is there anything better. Heres my criteria. Is there a light that fits these requests? Im mostly an LED guy so my Incan knowledge is lacking.

    -has to run on CR123 primaries
    -close to the size of the M6
    -more lumens than the M6
    -atleast 20-30 mins of runtime like the MN21 bulb
    -turbo head preferable for longer illumination

    I know if I went with rechargables I would have plenty of options but I would like to stick with CR123 batteries for this light. Can you please help this LED guy find a Incan that fits the criteria above?

  2. #2
    Flashaholic GunSmoke16610's Avatar
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    Default Re: My options for something better.

    I do not know of a brighter incandescent that runs on CR123 cells. The M6 is pretty much king in that config.

    Check this out

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=204157



    Good luck

  3. #3
    Flashaholic camaro09's Avatar
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    Default Re: My options for something better.

    Quote Originally Posted by GunSmoke16610 View Post
    I do not know of a brighter incandescent that runs on CR123 cells. The M6 is pretty much king in that config.

    Check this out

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=204157



    Good luck
    Thanks for the link and Ive looked over many times. I am really wanting to see if theres any setup brighter than the M6 that runs on CR123s.

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    Flashaholic GunSmoke16610's Avatar
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    Default Re: My options for something better.

    Quote Originally Posted by camaro09 View Post
    Thanks for the link and Ive looked over many times. I am really wanting to see if theres any setup brighter than the M6 that runs on CR123s.

    No problem. This forum is great and if an option exists I am sure someone will let us know

    Thx

  5. #5
    Flashaholic* fivemega's Avatar
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    Default Re: My options for something better.

    Quote Originally Posted by camaro09 View Post
    -has to run on CR123 primaries
    -close to the size of the M6
    -more lumens than the M6
    -atleast 20-30 mins of runtime like the MN21 bulb
    -turbo head preferable for longer illumination
    MN21 is designed to drain safe maximum possible current from 3S/2P CR123As which is about 2.5 Amps per each primary cell.
    Now you want same drain (20 minutes run time) or less drain (30 minutes run time) with more than 500 lumens in same size (6xCR123A) flashlight?
    It's not going to happen.
    As I mentioned earlier, current draw of 2 parallel configuration is already at maximum with MN21.
    More lumens means more wattage. More wattage means either more volts which requires more cells in series or more current which requires 3 parallel instead of 2 which means larger body to accomodate more cells.
    With some extension tube and battery holder of 5S/3P (5 Serial/ 3 Parallel), you can run a FM1909 for about 30 minutes. Let's say cost of each primary cell is $2, so operation cost of 30 minutes will be $30 or $1 per minute.

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    Default Re: My options for something better.

    Is there any particular reason why it has to run on CR123a's?

    I do like lights that will run on both CR123a's and IMR's, but the rechargeable M6 setups are very bright.
    ampdude

  7. #7
    Flashaholic camaro09's Avatar
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    Default Re: My options for something better.

    Quote Originally Posted by ampdude View Post
    Is there any particular reason why it has to run on CR123a's?

    I do like lights that will run on both CR123a's and IMR's, but the rechargeable M6 setups are very bright.
    The reason for wanting to use primaries is it will pretty much just sit in the truck. AND living where I do, other than the summer is gets colder than Li-ion cells are made for. Hmmmm maybe I need to be looking at a smaller hand held type HID. But there goes the Incan tint. Maybe the M6 is all there us for me.

  8. #8
    Flashaholic GunSmoke16610's Avatar
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    Default Re: My options for something better.

    Quote Originally Posted by camaro09 View Post
    The reason for wanting to use primaries is it will pretty much just sit in the truck. AND living where I do, other than the summer is gets colder than Li-ion cells are made for. Hmmmm maybe I need to be looking at a smaller hand held type HID. But there goes the Incan tint. Maybe the M6 is all there us for me.

    I am in the same situation as you in terms of the use. I just bought a FM 3x 26500 Maegalennium added a FM Bi-Pin,KT4, 1909 bulb and an AW switch. The light is amazing.

    I simply top off the cells and keep the light for us in my Polaris

  9. #9
    Flashaholic camaro09's Avatar
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    Default Re: My options for something better.

    Quote Originally Posted by ampdude View Post
    Is there any particular reason why it has to run on CR123a's?

    I do like lights that will run on both CR123a's and IMR's, but the rechargeable M6 setups are very bright.
    Quote Originally Posted by GunSmoke16610 View Post
    I am in the same situation as you in terms of the use. I just bought a FM 3x 26500 Maegalennium added a FM Bi-Pin,KT4, 1909 bulb and an AW switch. The light is amazing.

    I simply top off the cells and keep the light for us in my Polaris
    I COULD just keep them topped off, but arnt extreme cold temps like -10 to -40F killer for Li-ions? It's still getting down into the 20's at night here. I think that's even not good for Li-ion cells.

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    Flashaholic* angelofwar's Avatar
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    Default Re: My options for something better.

    Well, the MN60/61 used in the M4 will usually out throw the M6 bulbs (MN20/21), just due to the larger bulb/tighter hot spot. At least mine does. It's not as bright as the MN21, but they have nice round spots unlike the oblong ones found in the MN20's/21's. You may want to check out the M4.

  11. #11
    Flashaholic camaro09's Avatar
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    Default Re: My options for something better.

    Quote Originally Posted by angelofwar View Post
    Well, the MN60/61 used in the M4 will usually out throw the M6 bulbs (MN20/21), just due to the larger bulb/tighter hot spot. At least mine does. It's not as bright as the MN21, but they have nice round spots unlike the oblong ones found in the MN20's/21's. You may want to check out the M4.
    I actually have an M4 package in CPFMP right now. Maybe ill have to try out the MN61 bulb from it in the M6...

    I also am interested in not only more throw but sheer output. Also I said similar to the M6 in size but if its larger that would work as well, like with say an extender of somekind. I think I better look into what fivemega had to say about an extender and different battery holder with FM1909 bulb. That should be pretty wicked. Plus it wont be used for extended periods, just while im in the truck. I would be fine with using more than 6 CR123 batteries as well. If im already using 6 for 20 min of runtime, whats a few more batteries huh?

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    Default Re: My options for something better.

    Quote Originally Posted by camaro09 View Post
    The reason for wanting to use primaries is it will pretty much just sit in the truck. AND living where I do, other than the summer is gets colder than Li-ion cells are made for. Hmmmm maybe I need to be looking at a smaller hand held type HID. But there goes the Incan tint. Maybe the M6 is all there us for me.
    Yea, I would stick with lithium primaries then. Or some type of spotlight with a lead-acid battery. These will be fine as well, as long as they stay charged up when not in use.
    ampdude

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    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default Re: My options for something better.

    Quote Originally Posted by camaro09 View Post
    I actually have an M4 package in CPFMP right now. Maybe ill have to try out the MN61 bulb from it in the M6...
    The MN61 won't be very impressive in the M6, wrong voltage. The M4's MN61 operates at ~9V and the MN60 operates at around 10V, the M6 is configured for ~6.6-7.5V operation under a load.

    I have many thoughts to share on the multiple subjects that are in consideration here:

    I contend that you could get a flashlight that runs on CR123s that is brighter and throws further than the stock M6, but it will probably require a custom configuration and experimentation to get there. The problem is that not many people have spent much time looking for ways to burn up even more CR123s even faster. The M6 is often converted to a rechargeable from the day it is purchased.

    I think a mag mod is in order:

    You'll probably want one of THESE!

    I'm thinking along the lines of a 2-3D tri-bored host running 9 or 12 CR123s in some configuration yet to be figured out yet. This would be larger than the M6, but it's going to have to be larger than the M6 in order to get brighter and throw further.

    I think the challenge is figuring out the bulb that is going to pair up properly to the battery configuration.

    [edit in]:

    64425 or similar, like the westinghouse 4743. Basically a 12V20W 2-3K hour rated bulb should work. I figure ~800 torch lumen on 9xCR123s in series. Runtime around 20 minutes. This can be done in a 2D host.

    WA1164 on 4S3P (12xCR123s) configuration would be about 1000 torch lumen, but there might be a problem with insta-flashing bulbs with fresh cells. Run-time here would be 45-60 minutes. A JC5067 might also work in this configuration with similar results.

    How about a 6D host tri bored (good luck on that one) running 24 CR123s wired 8S3P driving the 64447 making well in excess of 3000 torch lumens for 30 minutes runtime!

    hehe


    Eric
    Last edited by mdocod; 04-25-2010 at 05:43 PM.

  14. #14
    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default Re: My options for something better.

    I was just thinking...

    A custom series wired adapter for the M6 running 6 CR123s in series and a 1185 or IMR-M6 bulb might work. SureFire used to have bulb options for the M4 that ran ~3.5A on a single stack of CR123s. They only ran for 5-10 minutes and were probably discontinued for safety reasons.I'm also wondering if maybe modern CR123s would trip their PTCs too easily and too quickly for this to work right. Just a thought though.

    Eric

  15. #15
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    Default Re: My options for something better.

    I really like the SF M6. I think it is the Ultimate Special Purpose BRIGHT light.

    First, with 123 primaries, it can "hang" around until it is needed, even in cold or hot weather. You can keep extra batteries, and bulbs with it in spares carriers as well. 123 batteries keep @90% of their power for 10 years.

    [The way I carry and use my M6 rechargables are not an option for me.]

    You have several lamp choices, including the MN 15 giving you longer runtime, MN 20, being very bright for @ one hour, and the MN 21, being super bright for 20 min.

    The M6 is a very handy size and weight, being not much bigger than the old 2 cell D battery lights. It is very handy to carry.

    When I need my M6 it is most often looking for an animal shot near dark, so I need the incandescent bulb for its color rendition...

    BUT, I do think a LED Lamp assembly, with high lumens, and its longer runtime would be a good option for the SF M6, for other utility uses.

    Lumens Factory take notice.

    When you consider EVERYTHING about the M6, quality, durability, handiness, brightness, its storage readiness [with 123 batteries], and its bulb choices I think it is an ICON among handhelds.

  16. #16
    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default Re: My options for something better.

    Quote Originally Posted by NE450No2 View Post
    Lumens Factory take notice.
    They already did



    Probably 600-700+ torch lumens. Draws about 1.5A on a pair of li-ion or 3xCR123s. Would run on a stock M6 pack for around 2 hours.

    Only trouble is, it's a fairly typical "cool"emitter so it just doesn't breath life into the outdoors the way a good incan can. But this is certainly a neat option and if you don't mind the LED light source. For applications where color rendition isn't as important, I'd take this LED head over the MN21. Uses less than 1/3rd the power and makes about the same true lumens.


    Eric

  17. #17
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    Default Re: My options for something better.

    Eric

    Thanks, I did not know about that lamp assembly.

  18. #18
    Flashaholic Dark Laser's Avatar
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    Default Re: My options for something better.

    A M6 with warm-white SST-50 would be my personal dream at the moment(if only I could have it )...it seems as if it might be a good solution for the thread starter.
    Has such a beast ever been built here on CPF?
    There shall be light!

  19. #19
    Flashaholic camaro09's Avatar
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    Default Re: My options for something better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Laser View Post
    A M6 with warm-white SST-50 would be my personal dream at the moment(if only I could have it )...it seems as if it might be a good solution for the thread starter.
    Has such a beast ever been built here on CPF?
    Correct me if i'm wrong but I don't think there is a way to run an SST-50 on 6 cr123s or 18V. Maybe I'm wrong, although that would be a sweet option. Like a 3000K SST-50.

  20. #20
    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default Re: My options for something better.

    Quote Originally Posted by camaro09 View Post
    Correct me if i'm wrong but I don't think there is a way to run an SST-50 on 6 cr123s or 18V. Maybe I'm wrong, although that would be a sweet option. Like a 3000K SST-50.
    The M6 pack is 3S2P and would measure about 9V open circuit, less under a load. The possibility of running a high power emitter is basically just a factor of building a head design or modifying the existing design to accomodate the heat sinking requirements, and then having a buck regulator that can handle ~9V input.

  21. #21
    Flashaholic Dark Laser's Avatar
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    Default Re: My options for something better.

    Well, heatsinking can be made a bit easier if the emitter isn't driven to full spec. About 70% of the maximum output might be a good agreement between light (+ still nice throw) and runtime/heat. Maybe I'm wrong with my guesses, I don't own a M6.
    There shall be light!

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