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Thread: Any battery experts here?

  1. #1

    Default Any battery experts here?

    New member here. I've been lurking for a while but never registered. I have a question for any battery experts out there.

    I recently acquired a pallet of lithium ion cells (approx. 1000). I know next to nothing about batteries. They are made by Tekocell. I have 2 different kinds. Both are 10Ah.

    The first has what I believe to be a part number of H7074170 10Ah 08L15 the other says H6774170 10Ah 08K20

    I called Tekocell only to get an answering machine speaking Chinese. The website is not of much help either. Can anyone tell me about these and approximate worth?

    Any info is much appreciated!

    --Dan B

  2. #2

    Default Re: Any battery experts here?

    I forgot to mention these batteries are 3.9 volts

  3. #3
    *Flashaholic* LuxLuthor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any battery experts here?



    Honestly, it is impossible to tell you anything useful from that information. There are many Chinese battery manufacturers out there; all over the spectrum regarding performance, quality, and safety.

    Photos may help, but testing them in a number of ways is the only way to know how they perform. Intended purpose, date of manufacture, storage conditions, company QC/reputation are among a few of the variables. It's a pretty safe assumption if you got them for a ridiculously cheap price, they are likely not worth much to anyone.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Any battery experts here?

    I'd love to know how you acquired a thousand of 10Ah lithium cells not knowing anything about them.... hmmmmm......

  5. #5
    Flashaholic Per-Sev's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any battery experts here?

    I won't buy two batteries with out knowing anything about them let alone a thousand why would you buy a thousand unless you are looking to sell them here and fishing for some interest.

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    Flashaholic Apollo Cree's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any battery experts here?

    Remember that Lithium cells explode if not handled very carefully in terms of proper charging process and being used by a device intended to use that PARTICULAR battery.

    And I do mean "explode" as in boom, fire, shrapnel, damage to nearby objects, toxic chemicals released, etc.

    Hook them up to a "generic" device, and you may get a boom.
    If once you start down the light path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Any battery experts here?

    We acquired them from a de-install job. We pulled telecom equipment out of an old Avaya building. They had these in the switch room which is air conditioned. We now have them in a warehouse which is non air conditioned. The pallet has a bill of laden from China with Dec 2008 marked on it. Our company specializes in telecom and video surveillance. No one here knows the first thing about batteries. We were either going to try to sell them or use them with solar panels to run Power Over Ethernet switches. Which in turn power our cameras. The main POE we use is a netgear FS108P

    • Total Power Consumption: 44 W maximum
    • PoE Watt budget: 32W
    • 802.3af Power Consumption: 32 W maximum (Ports 1 – 4)
    • 48VDC, 0.8A power

    I'm not sure if these batteries would be compatible. The solar panels we use now come from the camera manufacture made specifically for the camera. We thought maybe, we could lower our overhead and increase the profit margin if we could make these ourselves. Unfortunately we are a bunch of numskulls when it comes to Electrical Engineering.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Any battery experts here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Per-Sev View Post
    I won't buy two batteries with out knowing anything about them let alone a thousand why would you buy a thousand unless you are looking to sell them here and fishing for some interest.
    We didn't buy them my friend. Although, I was fishing here.

  9. #9
    *Flashaholic* Mr Happy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any battery experts here?

    Pictures and measurements would give more chance of saying what they are.

    What you need to know about rechargeable batteries though, is that they come as a system with charging electronics and charge monitoring all integrated. If you have disassembled the batteries from the system you effectively have a bunch of dead weight. What you needed to do was keep the system intact and figure out its input/output parameters. Then maybe you had a chance of re-using it.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Any battery experts here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Happy View Post
    Pictures and measurements would give more chance of saying what they are.

    What you need to know about rechargeable batteries though, is that they come as a system with charging electronics and charge monitoring all integrated. If you have disassembled the batteries from the system you effectively have a bunch of dead weight. What you needed to do was keep the system intact and figure out its input/output parameters. Then maybe you had a chance of re-using it.
    No charging equipment came with the pallet. Nothing was disassembled. Batteryies came in boxes of plastic trays. About 40 cells per box. The one photo is of 6 cells daisy chained together. About ten came that way.

    Here is a couple of photos
    http://s472.photobucket.com/albums/r...i-Ion%20batts/

    size in inches.........
    6 1/4" by 2 3/4" by 1/4"
    Last edited by tampa-db; 05-19-2010 at 10:51 AM. Reason: forgot something

  11. #11
    *Flashaholic* Mr Happy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any battery experts here?

    Quote Originally Posted by tampa-db View Post
    No charging equipment came with the pallet. Nothing was disassembled. Batteryies came in boxes of plastic trays. About 40 cells per box. The one photo is of 6 cells daisy chained together. About ten came that way.

    Here is a couple of photos
    http://s472.photobucket.com/albums/r...i-Ion%20batts/

    size in inches.........
    6 1/4" by 2 3/4" by 1/4"
    Ah, right, but clearly they were intended to be installed in some system, somewhere. Unless you can locate the original systems they were going to be installed in you will have a hard time making use of them. They are like an engine without a car.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Any battery experts here?

    I was hoping that was not the case..... what would you recommend i do with these?

  13. #13
    *Flashaholic* Mr Happy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any battery experts here?

    Quote Originally Posted by tampa-db View Post
    I was hoping that was not the case..... what would you recommend i do with these?
    Do some detective work. Find who originally supplied them (invoices? delivery notes?). Find from the supplier if they were a bespoke item or a standard part, and what specifications they have. Find the system they were going to be used for. Find other people who may have such a system and who may have such a use for the part. Contact some liquidators and see if they will take the batteries off your hands. Take the batteries to a hazardous waste recycling center...

  14. #14
    Flashaholic* bshanahan14rulz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any battery experts here?

    Are they all puffed up like that?
    Lithium Polymer cells should not have air or gas in them, it is a sign of something wrong.

    Those sound pretty sizable. Largest ones I've found so far are about 4" by 2" sony cells.

    Edit: after digging around, these are the biggest cells that company makes, 74x170mm

    10000mAh sounds nice too.

    You can use a higher end hobby charger to charge these, but I'd read up on Lithium Polymer. They're not too different from standard Li-ion in terms of charging.
    Last edited by bshanahan14rulz; 05-21-2010 at 09:56 AM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Any battery experts here?

    Quote Originally Posted by tampa-db View Post
    We acquired them from a de-install job. We pulled telecom equipment out of an old Avaya building. They had these in the switch room which is air conditioned. We now have them in a warehouse which is non air conditioned. The pallet has a bill of laden from China with Dec 2008 marked on it. Our company specializes in telecom and video surveillance. No one here knows the first thing about batteries. We were either going to try to sell them or use them with solar panels to run Power Over Ethernet switches. Which in turn power our cameras. The main POE we use is a netgear FS108P

    • Total Power Consumption: 44 W maximum
    • PoE Watt budget: 32W
    • 802.3af Power Consumption: 32 W maximum (Ports 1 – 4)
    • 48VDC, 0.8A power

    I'm not sure if these batteries would be compatible. The solar panels we use now come from the camera manufacture made specifically for the camera. We thought maybe, we could lower our overhead and increase the profit margin if we could make these ourselves. Unfortunately we are a bunch of numskulls when it comes to Electrical Engineering.
    You're playing with dynamite, as some of the others have pointed out. If improperly charged or discharged, these things can become highly toxic and destructive bombs. It's nothing an EE "numskull" should be messing with. There might possibly be some solar power charging systems designed for specific Li-ion battery packs, but the vast majority are designed for use with lead-acid batteries. Don't try charging these with a charger designed for lead-acid batteries! I strongly recommend against trying to charge them at all.

    I'll let others give advice about how best to sell them. But you might also consider liability issues if the buyer doesn't know how to properly deal with them, either.

    c_c

  16. #16
    Flashaholic* Battery Guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any battery experts here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Curious_character View Post
    You're playing with dynamite, as some of the others have pointed out. If improperly charged or discharged, these things can become highly toxic and destructive bombs. It's nothing an EE "numskull" should be messing with. There might possibly be some solar power charging systems designed for specific Li-ion battery packs, but the vast majority are designed for use with lead-acid batteries. Don't try charging these with a charger designed for lead-acid batteries! I strongly recommend against trying to charge them at all.
    I second this advice. From the pictures it looks like some of the cells have started to bulge, which means that there is internal gas generation. Also, you have no idea how these cells have been stored and handled since 2008, and mishandling can certainly affect performance and safety when it comes to lithium-ion.

    I don't see a cheap way to use these. If you are really determined to use these cells, then I recommend that you hire an engineering firm with experience in evaluating lithium-ion cells for safety and use in specific applications. Someone like Exponent (http://www.exponent.com/batteries/#tab_overview) might be able to assess the quality of your cells, their state of health, and show you how to design your system to use these cells, BUT, companies like Exponent are really expensive. I would guess that you would be looking at around $5k-$10k to evaluate the cells just to determine what you have, and if they are even worth using.

    Cheers,
    Battery Guy

  17. #17
    *Flashaholic* mdocod's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any battery experts here?

    Unless you have specific need for building up some power packs for something, your best bet would be to sell them for cheap to a buyer who you make fully aware of what they are buying. Make sure to list them as potentially defective, need to be sorted for duds, and likely of "Chinese" quality li-poly construction that may or may not be inherently more dangerous than the polymer cells found in many consumer electronics normally sold.

    If you decide to keep them and use them, it would probably be best to sort them into groups of "puffed" and "un-puffed" cells. The puffed cells should not be used. The un-puffed cells should be voltage tested to see if they are sitting in an appropriate state of charge before using (above 3.6V-3.7V ideally). They should then be cycle tested in a fire-proof container in a well ventilated area to see if they show any abnormal signs, like puffing, heating etc. Checking to see that they hold a charge would also be important. Before doing any of this, you need to find a data-sheet that lists the recommended maximum voltage and recommended range of operating voltage.

    Eric
    -Eric

  18. #18

    Default Re: Any battery experts here?

    Batteries are not bulging. What you see in the picture is a clear plastic sleeve all the cells have around them. And from my understanding, they have been in an air conditioned climate up until we brought them into our warehouse about 2 months ago. I suppose I will try to sell them on ebay or something. I have also checked the voltage on quite a few of these cells. All of them were 3.9v.

  19. #19
    Flashaholic* bshanahan14rulz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any battery experts here?

    With all these "don't even look at them, you'll shoot your eye out, kid" responses, I was expecting to see some "well, you could sell them to me..." follow-ups....

    3x the capacity of an 18650, sure it's a rectangular chunk, but that's gotta be worth something... Do they appear to be new or used?

  20. #20
    *Flashaholic* Mr Happy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any battery experts here?

    I get the impression they are brand new. Possibly a 3S pack could be made as a substitute for an SLA in some kind of lantern? ... When used with the right charger of course!

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Any battery experts here?

    i would like to get 2 to check out.
    but from what is said and shown they are to old to be sold as "good"
    Dec 2008. and look at the TAPE on the box, tells the age or exposure pretty fast.
    the packs look like 2P3S battery backup pulls from servers or card rack type of electronics.

    more guessing
    they bought a whole shipment of them for cheap, TO assemble thier OWN packs for the backup of the system, and like all good ideas at the time, the equiptment or idea itself became obsolete before the whole "order" direct from china was used up.
    if you buy whole 1000pieces order from china and wait long enough for the delays and all, you can get things for what 100 costs, so they probabaly did still "save Money".
    Last edited by VidPro; 05-25-2010 at 03:04 PM.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Any battery experts here?

    Quote Originally Posted by VidPro View Post
    i would like to get 2 to check out.
    I wouldn't mind shipping out a couple samples in exchange for some better info in regards to functionality and charger requirements. That may help me sell some of these.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Any battery experts here?

    Dan, PM me. I may be interested in your batteries.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Any battery experts here?

    Hi Dan,

    I would post a thread about these batteries at the Endless-sphere Battery Technology Forum

    There are many people there that use these kind of LiPo and will be able to assist with identification and battery condition. Many are also interested in buying these.


    Edit - holy batman, I didn't see that the thread was started nearly 1 year ago
    Last edited by ecrbattery; 04-26-2011 at 04:21 PM. Reason: thread date

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