Newbie LED dive/surface light help?

NumbDiver

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Hey all,
I've lurked here back and forth for a year or so, and never posted. I'm a bit afraid of going too deep into buying lights if I get started. I like 'em and I like gear. For better or worse, I don't really need another expensive hobby. I did buy a Stanley HID based on the CP forum chatter and am very happy with the results, at its price point.

I used to be a deep-tech scuba diver, but as I've aged I sold my exploration gear and canister lights (I got out of it just when HID came on the market). I still dive on vacation, still hit the cenotes when in Mexico. I no longer travel with gear. I just rent good stuff. I would like to have a packable LED handheld that would travel with me for diving, and also be used on land along with my HID Stanley.

I'd like to keep things under $150 (hopefully under $125). I love BRIGHT. Tight pattern is more important that flood. No focus necessary. Over an hour burn time (hopefully 2) at full brightness is a must. Rechargeable would be nice, but not a deal killer. AA preferable to CR123 for availability if not rechargeable. Handheld, not canister. Overall size doesn't really matter (bigger is ok).

I have something in mind, but not sure what the forum rules are with posting ebay ads. I could post links if needed, if it won't break any rules. The brand I was looking at is Novae (sold on the infamous 'bay). They make 2 different 700 lumen and 900 lumen handhled lights that are waterproof for diving, for around $125. I'm guessing they are cheap overseas stuff. And I understand you get what you pay for. But if it's LED and works, it'll likely keep working? If all failed and it flooded and died, it wouldn't be a catastrophe, and I'd be out around $100. I'd never put myself in a position of depending on a cheap light for a light source in overhead environments. I don't see any mentions of the brand using your search of the CP forums. Any opinions or better suggestions? Since I'm not looking for a primary cave light, or something that will see underwater use more than 1-2 times a year, are these a decent choice? If I were buying a full-blown light again, it'd prolly be MB sub or similar. This would just be a fun light, that could be used on a dive, in place of the crap rental lights they give you.
 

DM51

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Welcome to CPF, NumbDiver :)

We have a Dive Light section here, so I'll move your thread there now.
 

NumbDiver

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Thank you Mod. I didn't see the Dive Light section till now. Hopefully some other divers can help!
 

gcbryan

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I have the light that you are talking about. You don't need to pay more and buy it from Novae as they are just buying it from DX in Hong Kong.

The MC/E version (which I have) is $95 and the P7 version is $85. I would recommend the MC/E version.

It is a good deal. There is generally one (easily fixable) problem with it. It will eventually flood if you don't fix this problem. Mine flooded in salt water and still continued to shine. I cleaned it out and cleaned the driver board electronics and it's not flooded since (after the fix).

The fix is to open the light up and cut one coil off from the spring that goes between the + terminal of the battery to the led heatsink.

This spring is too long and doesn't allow the front lens to fully compress the o-ring sealing the light.

This light uses rechargeable li-ion batteries and comes with 2 of them as well as the charger needed for them.

This light is roughly comparable to a 10 W HID. I would suggest you order a second set of batteries with the initial order. Some batteries are better than others. If your light flickers or dims in this case it's generally and issue with the battery and not the light.

Since it takes so long to get product from DX it pays to order extras from the beginning.
 
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kubi

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Hi and welcome,

I have the SSC P7 (sku 29069) from dealextreme. I've tested it a week ago in a minig lake at ~35m depth 6C (~43F). It was working fine without cutting the spring, but I'll check that.
SSC P7, especially the cheap ones used in these flashlights usually do not give the best tint and lunimous flux...

I had to change one of the O-rings (some spare in box) at the tailcap, because some sharpnel from the factory cut it. So, clean the tailcap carefully and use some silicone.
 

gcbryan

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Hi and welcome,

I have the SSC P7 (sku 29069) from dealextreme. I've tested it a week ago in a minig lake at ~35m depth 6C (~43F). It was working fine without cutting the spring, but I'll check that.
SSC P7, especially the cheap ones used in these flashlights usually do not give the best tint and lunimous flux...

I had to change one of the O-rings (some spare in box) at the tailcap, because some sharpnel from the factory cut it. So, clean the tailcap carefully and use some silicone.

Definitely check the spring. My bezel appeared to be too tight to open right up until it flooded! Then the ring was spinning around!

Most lights have flooded and most of them don't flood until the 3rd or 4th dive. I think the factory uses some Loctite (or something similar) and it keeps the bezel on for the first few dives.

After that the Locktite washes off, the water pressure pushes on the front glass and releases pressure on the bezel. This is pressure that would not be released if the o-ring was doing its job of "pushing back" against the force of the water pressure.

With a loose bezel, in many cases water pressure it still keeping the lens in place (and therefore watertight) until you start to get shallow. The pressure is then reduced and dynamic movement in the water causes the lens to move and then it floods.

Generally, it can still be salvaged even if the dive was in salt water but you'd rather not have to count on this. :)
 
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jspeybro

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If you want to use it both above and under water, use rechargeble AA batteries and get a nice tight spot and 2hours burntime, an ultrafire w200 sounds like what you need, although it doesn't give you 700lm.

it's cheap ($37) and can be easily taken with you when traveling. It's construction is also so simple that it can hardly fail, and if it would fail, it is easy to repair.
 

NumbDiver

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Thanks for the suggestions so far. Keep 'em coming, I've got an open mind!

It's so out of character for me to buy any piece of dive gear based on price instead of performance. My NumbDiver moniker has been with me for over 15 years on the 'net. Guess I'm just getting old. Hopefully I'm smart enough to realize that I won't see the benefit of spending hundreds of dollars more on a light that may get wet 2 times a year on a recreational dive.

I miss the danger and task loading of 250'+ dives, carrying stage bottles, reels, canister lights, multiple 'puters and tables, and hours of deco. I don't miss the ****-around factor and weight though ;-) This little light should color up the pretty fishes quite nicely. Then I can use it while camping as well.

BTW, being a newbie, I'm probably too impressed with numbers like 700-900 lumens, and don't understand how optics and design and other things limit the light. Am I right to be looking at these, or are there many others out there with a different set of specs, that perform as well in the real world?
 

gcbryan

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Yeah, forget the numbers to a large extent.

First of all, they are usually accurate. They are manufacturer numbers related to the perfect led in the lab rather than the led you have in your flashlight with optical and driver inefficiencies.

In many cases they are just used incorrectly. If a light isn't driven at the current specified by the manufacturer for that lumen output then it's not even accurate or ethical to list it that way.

Lumens also relate to total output and not the brightness of the center of the beam which is usually what you care about.

A flood light will have more lumens (all other things being equal) but a spotlight will be brighter in that spot with much less lumens needed.

I use both lights mentioned about. One as the main light and one as the backup. The MC-E light has about 500 actual lumens and the W200 has about 170 lumens but in the center of the spot they are both almost as bright.

The beam of the W200 is just narrow.

There's no simple answer here of course but those are a few of the things involved.
 
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gav6280

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I have both versions of the Ugly light from DX and also 2 W200's.

They are all cheap Chinese lights and will/have flooded at some point.

If you can put up with thatand are happy tweaking them from time to time and trying out a few modifications here and there then they do represent something of a bargain in terms of light output.

But if you want something that is bullet proof reliable, and just works first time out of the box, every time! (You mention cenote diving) i would have thought you need something more reliable than a Chinese made light?

I personally now build my own stuff from scratch, and im also saving for a barbolight.

But you do hear good and bad things about pretty much every dive light going, it's just a question of sticking to around on diving forums and figuring out the less bad ones.

Have you considered a trip to your local dive super store, or visiting a show?

Contenders for me are:

Halcyon
Tektite
Dive Rite
Dark Buster
Barbolight
UK
Salvo, or whatever it is these days.
PackHorse
Pelican
MB sub

But pretty much all theses will be out of that budget.
 
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NumbDiver

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I have both versions of the Ugly light from DX and also 2 W200's.

They are all cheap Chinese lights and will/have flooded at some point.

If you can put up with thatand are happy tweaking them from time to time and trying out a few modifications here and there then they do represent something of a bargain in terms of light output.

But if you want something that is bullet proof reliable, and just works first time out of the box, every time! (You mention cenote diving) i would have thought you need something more reliable than a Chinese made light?

I personally now build my own stuff from scratch, and im also saving for a barbolight.

But you do hear good and bad things about pretty much every dive light going, it's just a question of sticking to around on diving forums and figuring out the less bad ones.

Have you considered a trip to your local dive super store, or visiting a show?

Contenders for me are:

Halcyon
Tektite
Dive Rite
Dark Buster
Barbolight
UK
Salvo, or whatever it is these days.
PackHorse
Pelican
MB sub

But pretty much all theses will be out of that budget.

Gav,
I appreciate the input. I've had much of the good tech gear. Over 3000 dives. Many in Lake Superior deep shipwrecks. 10 years of search and recovery. I ran the gamut of the best gear out there, and custom made much of my kit myself. I've sold off everything (including 20+ tanks, my own compressor and gas mixing panel), and only kept a few Poseidon regs and simple backplate BC's. Now my diving is pure recreational, warm water stuff, while on vacation. I still dive, but the dives are not very serious and do not require serious lighting. I am quite jealous of today's divers with the mix gas/closed circuit rebreathers. More tech, but much less gear and weight. If I ever did it again, it'd be a no-brainer to go full RB. My back would thank me, as would my pocket book in the long run. I had over $25k in gear not including my Zodiac/50hp and dive live-aboard. RBs are expensive upfront, but the lack of stage bottles/extra regs, etc. makes them cheaper and more reliable, assuming you can work on your RB yourself.

I just thought the last few dives I've made, the rental lights were sooo anemic, it'd be nice to travel with a very bright handheld that could run double-duty underwater if I decided to make a dive. I'm so sick of shleping hundreds of pounds of gear on vacation, I'm unwilling to even travel with a canister light.

Hence, the original post. Small, bright, cheap (under $150) and can occasionally get wet to 150' or so. If it dies/floods; oh well. If I care for it like I cared for my other gear, it likely will not and could serve me well for the occasional dunk.

I do agree there is little place of inexpensive/cheaply-made gear in diving. If one is educated and understands the ramifications of product failure on a given dive; then one can make a decision based on price-point vs. reliability. It is a rarity though.
 

gav6280

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hmmm, well taking all that into consideration my recommendation would be the LS4 from tektite, im not affiliated to them but its bright, tightly focused, light weight, alakline batterys, and built like a tank.
 

350xfire

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Intova- I just bought their $70 model and it's really bright and compact. I use it as a back up for cave diving and during primary light out drills it light up the way just fine. I would definitely use it as an open water primary.
 

gcbryan

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I think for what you want it for and living in the US (knowing what is easily available here) I'd agree that one of the Intova lights is probably what you want.

If you really want more output then buy an Intova and one of the lights you mentioned in your original posts (just in case one fails).

All of the lights mentioned here in this thread will work for you however.
 

Klem

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GCBryan...

On your two DX recommendations; the SSC P7 and the MC/E

I see the MC/E ($95 SKU 26498) is rated on DX at only 650lumens, while the cheaper P7 ($80 SKU 29069) is rated 900lumens ?! Big difference.

Have I got the right SKU's? Is so, why do you recommend the MC/E torch?
 

gav6280

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GCBryan...

On your two DX recommendations; the SSC P7 and the MC/E

I see the MC/E ($95 SKU 26498) is rated on DX at only 650lumens, while the cheaper P7 ($80 SKU 29069) is rated 900lumens ?! Big difference.

Have I got the right SKU's? Is so, why do you recommend the MC/E torch?

Tighter beam angle.:grin2:
 

gcbryan

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As Gav said, the MC-E has a tighter beam angle. They both have 4 dies but they are smaller/closer together in the MC-E resulting in a tighter beam.

Otherwise, they are both about the same brightness. The P7 is over rated as driven in that regard.
 
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