Surefire 6P Drop-in Advice...

Hi,

I recently purchased a Surefire 6P LED Defender. Just using it around the house, I love it: Great light output in a small, lightweight, and durable package (relative to the huge incandescent two D-cell Maglite it replaced.) However, my other intended use for it was as a weapon light. At this role, it is somewhat disappointing.

I purchased mounting hardware for it, as well as a pressure/tape switch for it. However, the light output is not quite as high as I would have liked. I read through the stickies, including the list of drop-ins available for it, and I have a few questions:

1. As a weapon light, I don't particularly care about runtime, as it will only be used for short periods of time in that role. My main concern is sheer output, and the ability to blind someone at close range (I intend to use it for home defense, so close-range, indoor usage at night is what I'm planning on.) With this in mind, I think that a "spotter"-style drop-in would work best for me (if you disagree, please let me know.) Based on this information, can someone give me some recommendation(s) on what specific drop-in I should get?

2. (This kind of goes along with question 1.) Some of the drop-ins I have seen have multiple modes. Although I don't really need multiple modes, the "strobe" function that some of them come with would be very useful. However, it seems that you must click the tailcap switch to change between the modes on these. Would this work with the pressure switch (which replaces the tailcap switch,) or should I just stick to single mode drop-ins?

Thanks a lot for any help!
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/217252

Reliable, proven high output drop-ins for weapon lights that I would rely on are the TNVC Q5 and the Malkoff M61. I just recently got the M61 and it is just phenomenal. I'm sure there are others as well.

TNVC http://tnvc.com/items/illumination_tools/q5_lamp.html

Malkoff http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/m61-mod-to-fit-surefire-p-7.html

The M61's are made in small quantities. Sign up for notification of M61 availability and grab one as they become available.

if its gonna be used as a weapons light then i would stick w/ a single mode. a strobe feature is great for disorienting an adversary but it could also impair you as a shooter...a feature better used if you find youself at a disadvantage. Malkoffs are awesome but i'm not sure the regular M30 or M60 would be my first choice, their beam is a tad narrow (8 degree optic), definitely not the best lamp for a "room sweeper". Malkoff's MC-E, M61, and M60W would all work well.....if you can find one for sale. Thrunite also has several excellent XP-G dropins. they have both 1A (+300lm) and 1.5A (~500lm) and they are both available in single mode and 3 mode (no strobe)...3.7V or 6V. i have one 1A and one 1.5A (which is in my C2) and both of these lamps see more use than any of my others.

Malkoff yes (definitely), but for home use I'd suggest the previous M60 in the 'F' (flood) version.

See here....

Not in stock, but well worth a poke around the MarketPlace to see if someone has one available.

Yes, definitely Malkoff. I suggest either the M60 MC-E or the M61.

I'll "third" the recommendation of Malkoff.

Research and pick the model you think would be best for you.

But for this application it's Malkoff all the way.

I think my current count is five Malkoff drop-ins and an MD3 light. I can't say enough about the quality, reliability and value offered by these things.

Naga1337 said:

1. As a weapon light, I don't particularly care about runtime, as it will only be used for short periods of time in that role. My main concern is sheer output, and the ability to blind someone at close range (I intend to use it for home defense, so close-range, indoor usage at night is what I'm planning on.) With this in mind, I think that a "spotter"-style drop-in would work best for me (if you disagree, please let me know.) Based on this information, can someone give me some recommendation(s) on what specific drop-in I should get?

Click to expand...

I'm personally concerned about you having "too much" output. If it's indoor at close range, the 550 lumens from an SST-50 drop-in could blind YOU as well.

The 260-ish lumens from the Malkoff M61 should do fine for that role. It's low enough in intensity so that it doesn't completely destroy your night vision as well, but the hotspot is focused enough to cause the same "blinding" effect as my SST-90 in direct drive(700+ lumens).

If you intend to use it as a weapon light, the M61 is also more durable for that role, being potted and all.

2. (This kind of goes along with question 1.) Some of the drop-ins I have seen have multiple modes. Although I don't really need multiple modes, the "strobe" function that some of them come with would be very useful. However, it seems that you must click the tailcap switch to change between the modes on these. Would this work with the pressure switch (which replaces the tailcap switch,) or should I just stick to single mode drop-ins?

Click to expand...

From what I hear, strobes are mostly useless because most of them aren't properly timed to cause any real disorientation. And indoors, I'd imagine it would disorient you as well.

At least, I start feeling a little dizzy sitting in a dark room flashing my light against the wall repeatedly:thinking:.


I'm personally more worried about what to do in the 2-3 seconds of time you bought with the "light in the face".

Do you:
A) Yell loudly at the guy to get the hell out?
B) Shoot first, ask later?
C) Crack him upside the head with your crenellated bezel?

Noctis said:

......From what I hear, strobes are mostly useless because most of them aren't properly timed to cause any real disorientation.........

Click to expand...

This is interesting. Where did you 'hear' this?

thanks

-

Im an LEO and carry the standard 6P LED as my duty light. I dont think you'd have any problems blinding a home invader, considering you'll be using it indoors and at close distances. The 6P's 80 lumens (probably has a higher true output) are more than enough for that.

Try walking around at night, in the dark, and have your wife light you in the head at varying distances. That'll give you an idea of what the 6P LED can deliver.

If you do decide to go with a drop-in, then be careful it isnt so powerful, that the reflection will blind you.

I dont have much experience with strobes, nor do any of my colleagues, but i wouldnt advise it. During a high-stress situation, such as confronting a home invader, it would only add more stress.

Regards

I have a Malkoff M60LF in a G2. At indoor distance (across 10' -25' rooms) it gives good area lighting without blinding you. Adequate to identify your intruder, though I don't know it it's bright enough (140 lumens) to dazzle at anything more than arm's length. I'd be concerned that an M60 (at about 260 lumens and with a narrower optic) would produce too tight a beam and that the hotspot "splashback" might be so bright it would impair your dark-adapted vision.

I'm not an LEO, and my only real use for a light in conjuntion with a weapon would be to positively identify an intruder as an "unfriendly" and disclose any visible weapon. I think the M60LF works pretty well for that, at short distances.

I should check the specs before posting this, but I'm pretty sure that in real world lumens the M60LF is comparable to the SureFire P60, which is what they're still shipping in the traditional shotgun forearm weapons lights. Assuming I'm right, I think your suggestion of the M60LF is a very good one.

+1 for a Malkoff, the new M61 IMO.

FWIW...from the SureFire and Malkoff Devices websites:

M60LF:140 lumens for 4.5 hours, 6 hours total runtime

P60L: 80 lumens for [undisclosed] hours, 12 hours total runtime

I have both. The Malkoff floods have an extremely broad and even beam, which may or may not suit a particular situation. The Malkoff quality is unsurpassed, though I would trust my life to either SureFire or Gene Malkoff's products.

I'm brand new to this, so bear with me:

I think the stock G2L lamp output compares most directly to the M60LL. They appear to have just about identical brightness levels. The only difference is that the M60LL has a more focused hotspot and therefore throws more light out a bit further than the stock lamp.

OTOH, the M61 is just a ton brighter, and has no clearly defined hotspot. It's just very bright in the center, and slowly drops off in intensity towards the edges.

edit: For a rifle mounted weapon light, there's no question I'd get an M61. Multi-levels and strobe modes have no place on a rifle, IMO. What matters there is that it be bright, reliable, and easy to activate under stress.

Anyone have beam shot comparisons? Like to see how they look inside the house, and outside the house in a yard or camping.

There are beamshot comparisions of the Malkoff M60 vs the M61 (among other units) both indoors & out in the Malkoff M61 thread. It's only 41 pages, so happy looking!

I personally agree that the stock 6P is more than sufficient for Home Defense tactical application. I have an original incan 6P that I use to compare my more recent LED lights with even though I have replaced the Xenon lamp module with an XP-E drop-in.

Now Naga1337 was thinking he(she?) might need a spot light to get the blinding effect. This is just not true.

While a lower powered light such as a common incandecent you buy from the hardware store will likely need it to just be visible across the room, having a tactical light throwing a tightly focused spot beam just means that it will be harder for you to get that light into the eyes of the intruder. If it is attached to a weapon....it will be harder still, since your weapon should be pointed at the largest target, not the smallest one.

A flood light beam that can light up the entire room is, in my opinion more desirable.

Also something you should consider; Do you want to have to point your weapon at someone or something that you might not necessarily be willing to shoot? Just to see what it is?

I would recommend keeping your 6P separate and invest in a second dedicated weaponlight.

edit: Having a strobe can be useful in some circumstances but it needs to be accessed separately from the primary light switch, so that there is no doubt that it is going to be on and not require the cycling of several different modes either. Something very few manufacturers have addressed. For home defense use I would avoid it.

lightfooted said:

I personally agree that the stock 6P is more than sufficient for Home Defense tactical application. I have an original incan 6P that I use to compare my more recent LED lights with even though I have replaced the Xenon lamp module with an XP-E drop-in.

Now Naga1337 was thinking he(she?) might need a spot light to get the blinding effect. This is just not true.

While a lower powered light such as a common incandecent you buy from the hardware store will likely need it to just be visible across the room, having a tactical light throwing a tightly focused spot beam just means that it will be harder for you to get that light into the eyes of the intruder. If it is attached to a weapon....it will be harder still, since your weapon should be pointed at the largest target, not the smallest one.

A flood light beam that can light up the entire room is, in my opinion more desirable.

Also something you should consider; Do you want to have to point your weapon at someone or something that you might not necessarily be willing to shoot? Just to see what it is?

I would recommend keeping your 6P separate and invest in a second dedicated weaponlight.

edit: Having a strobe can be useful in some circumstances but it needs to be accessed separately from the primary light switch, so that there is no doubt that it is going to be on and not require the cycling of several different modes either. Something very few manufacturers have addressed. For home defense use I would avoid it.

Click to expand...

Well, a light with a concentrated hotspot like the M61 seems to compensate for a lower lumens output. To me at least, the hotspot of the M61 seems just as intense as the hotspot from my SST-90 Direct Drive(estimated 800+ OTF lumens).

I don't find it particularly hard to aim the hotspot of the M61 into someone's eyes unless they're closer than 10 ft or constantly moving around a lot(though I suspect your hands will still move faster than their head). Though I might have to agree about the part where you want to keep your gun pointed at center mass, and pointing a gun at someone's head just seems unnecessarily vicious.

Still, perhaps the concept of "blinding" should be thrown out the window and we can just settle for "identifying a target".

I'm thinking maybe an M60WF. A light that has plenty of flood and doesn't break from the recoil sounds nice.