Any Cavers in here?

I know I've seen a few cavers on this forum so far and I wanted to know what you guys used in the cave as far as lamps go. I only have a BD icon and I used to think it was the greatest light ever, but then a friend of mine got a stenlight and it was quite a bit brighter. I'm not sure why that light is 200 bucks though, it didn't seem that great. Anyway, I'm heading in to some much bigger caves this year and I'm gonna get a better light. So far the only thing that looks much brighter sub 200 bucks is the hp10. I'd like to make a Diy lamp but I don't know enough about lights to go that route I think. What do you all use in the cave?

I use a homemade 2 LED headlamp as my primary, with a Princeton Tec EOS as backup. In the past I've used a modified EOS as my primary headlamp, and before that I used a Pelican 2630. Most of the people I cave with use the Princeton Tec Apex.

Princeton Tec Apex. I have two.

Princeton Tec Apex, good choice!:twothumbs but I also use 1W Waterproof Superbright LED Headlight.

I and vast majority of my fellow cavers use Petzl DUO 14. Recently I modded mine to replace halogen bulb with Cree Q5 + 10° collimator .
I was also looking at more powerful headlamps but decided to save money and have fun building my own (will post when done)

I believe that lumens on caving headlamps make sense only to some extent because humid air, ones own evaporation and breath backfires light (long car lights won't help in fog). The closer the light source is to eyes (it can't get much closer than forehead) the more obvious is the effect. As a result of this effect my friend with Stenlight hand held his helmet to illuminate and see a waterfall.
That's why I use Romisen RC T6 hand torch to illuminate big caverns.

:wave: I use a homemade thing. At 1,000+ lumens on high with a centre-weighted flood it lights up large chambers and distant roofs like nothing I've seen before. It's sadly not very waterproof :sigh: but was very inexpensive for its output.

I have a friend who loves his HP10 so much he's finally moving on from carbide but he has lost one diffuser already.

Hopefully my work is going to pay for my light (my new job I get paid to go caving!!) So I'll probably go with an hp10 and if I can sneak it in I'll get a bigger hand torch for really lighting up big caverns. If I ever get around to learning more about lights I'd really like to make my own though, sounds like the way to go.

P.S. there should be a caving sub forum somewhere in here I feel. Like in the OT, where people can post up pics of their adventures and such.

I use a combination of my DIY headlamp as a primary and usually a couple of Princeton Tec lights as backups. Usually a Quad and an Eos. (Owned by the grotto I'm a part of) I can't recommend those two Princeton Tec lights enough. Out of the dozens that have been used heavily in our grotto only a few have had problems. When it comes to the Apex, though, many have failed due to being submerged in water. This isn't a huge problem because Princeton Tec will replace them, but it does annoy me that despite this obvious weakness they haven't done anything to improve the water resitance of that model.

I've never used the HP10 but it looks like a great headlamp. I wish the diffuser was built in and sturdier. The way I see it from seeing beam shots, the diffuser is a neccessary accessory for a caver, but an afterthought as far as Fenix was concerned.

I've used the Petzl DUO 14 many times and like it a lot. It is very reliable and easy to operate. One of it's primary drawbacks is that it relies on older technology and hasn't been updated in a while. It performs just fine as is but it can be made into a brighter, more state of the art LED headlamp by using one the the mods found here:

http://customduo.co.uk/CustomDUOrange.aspx

Your new job sounds very cool! May I ask where you'll be located? Also, I have to second the idea for a caving sub-forum.

I'm in New Mexico, doing a lot of work in the carlsbad caverns and lechuguilla area.

Kind of off topic but I was caving today and realized I hate the rental helmets we use. Does anyone have a good recommendation for a caving helmet?

You got THAT job? Very nice! Some of your competitors are in one of my grottos.

I use a Rayovac High Beam that I modifies with a K2 TFFC, glass lens, and reflector. Fairly waterproof, and about 200 lumens with no annoying auto step down. The caves here are cold enough that we don't need it.

The Sten is VERY tough. That's why it costs so much. Since they will be paying for the light, get the Sten. They have heard of it, I'm certain, and it is the cheapest of the modern professional caving headlamps.

The only other one in the same price range that would be as good a choice is the Petzl Duo with the 14 LED module and an upgrade for that ridiculous halogen bulb. This one

http://www.karstsports.com/pevebeduoe66.html

has the helmet as well.

The Little Monkey is another great high end headlamp; bright and tough.

For helmets, most I know use Petzl's. The Ecrin Roc has a space in the top in which you could store a map or polypro.

Kevin

I used the older model Apex for my first couple years of caving and now use the HP10. I like the HP10 a lot more. Went on a trip last week that lasted a little over 10 hours and never had to change the batteries. The HP10 is very much a spot light though and makes it difficult to see where you are stepping unless you diffuse the light. The diffuser Fenix makes for it is pretty much useless because of the glare it causes so I usually just put a couple layers of scotch tape over the lens.

If your work is going to buy the light for you though I would go for the Sten. Its not that much brighter than the HP10 but it is pretty much bomb proof. One lady that was on our trip last week said she wouldn't trade her Sten for anything.

A good helmet would either be the Petzl Ecrin Roc or the Petzl Vertex Vent. Whatever helmet you get be sure to avoid the ones with the foam lining in the top because you'll get very hot, especially in New Mexico! Happy Caving!

The light unit of Stenlight is indeed "boomb proof" but what about battery pack? Plastic wrapped batteries that are mounted to helmet with velcro :thumbsdow A friend of mine owns it and I've seen how good it holds on to helmet in squeezes. He bumped it off a couple of times then the velcro got dirty and wouldn't hold batteries on helmet My friend then made custom battery case from two old 4.5v batery cases.

My helmet recommendation for the climate you're in would be the Petzl Ecrin Roc. The Vertex is heavier but I believe people with larger heads tend to like it. I'm using the Elios which is awesome and lightweight but the foam in the top of the helmet would be prone to making you overheat down there.

Abhorton here on cpf is selling these https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3074772#post3074772
and it seems like a great headlamp. I think i may shoot for one of these instead of the sten.

I use a Stenlight S7, but would actually recommend a PT Apex.

I use PT Apex pro and two PT EOS as backups.


I have wondered if the Fenix headlamp is any good but have no need to get one since I have the above.

I have a long thin head and the Petzel Helmets don't fit at all. There used to be a caving / rock climbing supply store near carslbad. Why not try on some helmets an see what works for you?

cave dave said:

I have a long thin head and the Petzel Helmets don't fit at all.

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Same here. I ended up settling on an Ecrin Roc with the thin padding in the front & back of the headband, and the thick padding on the sides. It's a little wobbly side-to-side, but I'm happy with it.

Used to have an Apex - never again - too fragile. Never got a chance to experience the non waterptroofness as it broke in my pack a couple times, and I returned it.

Now have 2 x HP10. One on helmet, one in pack, and a LD10 as a mounted backup. Good value, seem to be reliable, great battery life. Just need to mod up the lens on one of the lights I think, as it is too spotty.

Well my work will pay for a sten light, but really besides the mentioned bomb proofedness, its only 140 lumens according to the site. I was thinking maybe get an hp10 for general caving and because I'd have more money I could get like a tk40 or 45 if I needed to really illuminate something. I don't know, I've seen the sten and it seems like a great light, just seems overpriced for its mediocre output.