Surefire Newbie

Hello everyone. I want to say this up front, my goal here is to learn not to start a flame war or bashing, so if the mods think this will be an issue, then please pull the thread. I want to learn, understand, and get opinions as to why people like Surefire flashlights.
I own 1 Surefire, it is a C2 Centurion that I got for a trade for a razor. I had never seen nor heard of a Surefire light before and all I really know about them now is that they are expensive, made in the USA, and people either love them or hate them for some reason or other.
I like the heft, feel, and solid build quality of my Surefire. I like how smooth the twisty tail cap is and how smooth the button press is. The light feels well made in my hands. I do not like the fact however that it eats batteries like candy and that it is not all that bright. My unit has the P60 incandescent bulb in it. I have a quark 123 regular and a Preon 2 that as far as brightness goes they will eat the C2 for lunch and do it in a smaller package with much better run times.
I am a simple person, "if it aint broke don't fix it" kind of guy. I do not buy the newest, lateest greatest things just because they are new. I have to have a legit reason to make a purchase or upgrade. I still for example use a 26 inch CRT TV that is 15 years old. I use Linux as an operating system rather than Windows on my computers because it fits my needs better. I still change my own oil @ 3 months or 3000 miles, why because it works and oil is cheap compared to a new engine.
Why are Surefire flashlights so loved? What makes them better than XYZ brand of light which may be smaller and brighter? Does Surefire fit the train of thought that says "we are the tested, tried and true product" rather than the "we are the newest and greatest in technology" concept? I want to fall in love with that C2 I really do, I just keep getting stuck on the poor runtimes and how it eats batteries like candy, and the fact that I have smaller less expensive lights that are brighter. What am I missing, what am I not seeing about a Surefire light? I have this feeling that they are the flashlights that once you buy it you will own it for many many years, and that less expensive and brighter light will have been broken a long time a go.

The upgradeable nature of the P60-based SureFires is a big selling point for many people.

For a dirt-cheap, bang-for-buck upgrade, get a SolarForce R2 module for about 15 bucks from LightHound. There's a version that can take from 3 to 12(?) volts, so you can run it with primaries batteries (CR123a) if you want, or any combo of rechargeables. That alone would solve your brightness problem, and if you got a multi-mode version you'd also have long runtime available.

I got the single mode R2 and run it off a 17670 Li-ion in my SureFire G2. It runs for about 2 hours, semi-regulated (I think).

The SolarForce XP-G modules are listed on Lighthound but they show to be out of stock so I guess they're not quite in production yet. I'd predict that these won't throw very well, based on previous XP-G lights so far, so if you want throw, get an XR-E in the R2 bin, if you want flood, get the XP-G.

I only have a 6P and G2, but I'd use them for situations where I need something simple and very robust.

By the way, if you want an incan solution, head over to the incan forum. There are lots of threads there about things you can do with a P60 SureFire.

Opinion...

Because they work, work very well, work very well under adverse circumstances, and are backed 101% by the best warranty in the business (possibly the best warranty in the US economy).

I have been using SureFire lights since sometime in the mid/late 90s. My second oldest light is still my primary EDC even though (as you can see below) I keep trying to replace it. It has had several accidents over the years and has had a couple of tailcaps replaced, many lexan windows replaced and eventually the whole bezel replaced, all under warranty.

On your point about runtimes and efficiency, I have replaced several of my incandescent lamp assemblies with Malkoff "drop in" LED replacements (they are as good as it gets, in my opinion). But I have also bought a couple of SureFire P60L LED conversions, and they're not bad.

SureFire is not generally at the bleeding edge of the technology curve, and when they try, sometimes they have problems either with delivery of the product (some announced products have actually never shipped) or with performance. But I don't need the latest gee-whiz technology. It can be nice, certainly, but just as with knife steel technology (I may catch flack for this), a lot of techno-advances are more gilding the lily than really delivering fundamental innovation and improvement.

This all opinion and others will probably have different opinions.

I have owned over 80 SureFire lights and around 100 of other brands. While I have had some failures with SureFire's I would say the other brands have had failures at a much much higher rate. Next when I have had issues with SF they have been fixed very quickly with no hassle every time. Many times they would just send a replacement part and I did not even have to bother sending anything to them. I cannot say this about any other company.

You really can't compare an incan to a new LED light. Surefire has newer LED models but they will not always be the brightest but IMO will be the most reliable. In the end all the lights I have kept more than a few years are SureFire's (and an Arc).

Thanks everyone. That all makes sense. Thinking the way that I do in life about value and quality and bang for the buck, it sure sounds like a Surefire is the right light for me. I also was thinking while I was out today before i came and read the replies to this post...that if I am worried about run times with the P60 incan bulb....well that is what rechargeables are for. Seriously it is a very nice light and I am finding out that it is not all about lumens, but rather a quality light that will last a very long time. I am unsure if I want the keep the incan blub in it or put an LED in it. That in itself is another issue. I am thinking just leave the light alone, use it and enjoy it. It is the only Incan light that I own and I like the warm tint of the bulb. It makes me want to see what a warm LED looks like. I should just use the light and be happy, but I am starting to get "the bug".

You probably want to consider an LED - an incan bulb can break with normal wear and tear.

A quality LED module is much more robust.

-Trevor

If I put an LED in it, do they make ones that look like an incan blub, warm tint I think it is called? Who make a quality drop in for it? I ask because I see $10 models and $75 models, so are you paying for a name or quality with the price increase?

Here is a link to good quality units. I got a warm tint SST-50 that puts out over 500 lumens and has High, Med and Low for $65 I love it.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/271519

IMO it's like going with a Victorinox multi tool, they don't have S30V in their blades, but they've been proven to work for decades and they have a policy of "You break it, we'll fix it".

In my opinion, you can buy a surefire or a different brand.
The surefire costs more, but if you crack the TIR lens on your light, they will replace it. Same for the tail cap.

The other brand? well I don't see as many posts praising the customer service of eagletac, fenix, streamlight or anyother brand.

To be fair, I have not done research on the quality of the customer service of other brands. Yes, I own one light of all the above brands.

I dropped an eagle tac P10A2 at work, and now the tailcap won't click on.

I dropped a surefire(or rather it rolled of the table) and it still works.

I know I bought my first Surefire because like you, I am very simple. I want a reliable light that will work when I click it on. I want it to be tough. Well, since I bought my first surefire - a 6P Led - I haven't looked back. I get a kick out of beating the living hell out of it.

In fact, the other day at work I was about 30 feet up checking a controller on the inlet to one of the turbines where I work. I had my 6P in my pocket. Just for sh*ts and giggles, I tossed it over the side onto the stone below. When I got down there, I clicked it on and just kind of laughed to myself. I wouldn't ever do that with any of my other lights.

lovenhim said:

I want to learn, understand, and get opinions as to why people like Surefire flashlights.

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It's not likely to start a flame war - people are so worn out over this topic there isn't the energy left to go on about it.

My opinion? Put a Malkoff in it and you'll instantly learn to love it. I have upgraded four Surefires with Malkoff drop-ins, one by Milky, one by Nailbender, and have a bunch more in stock form. By far the Malkoff drop-ins appeal to me the best, and honestly, worth their premium asking price.

carrot said:

My opinion? Put a Malkoff in it and you'll instantly learn to love it. I have upgraded four Surefires with Malkoff drop-ins, one by Milky, one by Nailbender, and have a bunch more in stock form. By far the Malkoff drop-ins appeal to me the best, and honestly, worth their premium asking price.

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I think the only incans I have left are:

- M6, which really has no exact LED equivalent (the M6 is a user, although not an every day user)

- a couple of E1e lights, for which there is no drop-in at this time and which are not even close to being daily users for me

Thanks for all this great advice. I notice that not many at all seem to "upgrade" with stock SF parts or use SF drop ins, why is that? Is the aftermarket a better quality upgrade/brighter or is it simply less expensive? Also, here is what I would like to obtain in my first LED upgrade, could you help me locate two versions with these options?:

3 modes low/med/hi (in that order)
warm tint so it looks closer to an incan
can use primary or rechargeable cells
more flood beam that spot
inexpensive drop in & a quality drop in


The reason I am being so picky is that I do not have much money to play with. I am legally blind and live on a budget so this purchase is something I want to do once and get it right. This caould be a $15-$30 purchase or a $60 purchase, I just want to get it right and then enjoy the C2. I want this C2 to become "good ole' reliable". I want to fall in love with this light so to speak and join those who love their SF flashlights. It does not have to be the brightest light in the world, it just has to work.

People upgrade their surefire's for many reasons. Two main reasons that a dropin would be desirable are runtime and brightness. A Malkoff dropin will run between two and eight hours continuous(depending on model) before dropping in light output. A Nailbender SST-90 dropin is advertised at 800 lumens output(www.lighthound.com).

If the budget is gonna stay tight, I would go with a rechargeable battery system and a nice 3 mode dropin.

yawzah.... that nailbender is $134.00 plus you'll need to upgrade the switch on the C2

malkoff M60W or M60WF $59.00 plus shipping and you're there. that's about as good as it gets. personally i would forget about the 3 modes.

This is a great deal not warm but a very nice tint and only one level but four hours of runtime and on sale for $39 plus you can use the code "CPF" for 5% off.

http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/m60lf-low-output-flood-to-fit-a-surefire-flashlight-p-23.html

Thank you all for the advice and wonderful help. All this numbers stuff is confusing to me. I understand Cree is the manufacture but this R2&Q5, 3000k...5000k, epe...epg stuff is hard to get for a newbie. Why does Deal Extreme sell a Cree Q5 LED Drop-in Module (3.7V~18V Input) 200 lumen unit for $8.43 and others like a Malkoff can be $40 or more? What gives, why is the Malkoff worth the money? Sorry newbie question here.