• You must be a Supporting Member to participate in the Candle Power Forums Marketplace.

    You can become a Supporting Member.

MadMax & BadBoy Runtime Graphs (fixed pics)

shankus

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 16, 2003
Messages
1,472
Location
Mojave, CA
The question of MadMax/BadBoy runtimes comes up often, so here are all the graphs I could find, posted here in one place.

The black & white paper graphs were all runs by Roy, and are not an indication of relative brilliance of a certain light compared to another, but rather a test of the runtime of the sandwich until it falls out of regulation.
Roy's definition of runtime is when the light reaches 50% of initial brilliance. I believe this is a fine criteria for measurement. (All of Roy's tests are run with a solar cell & a data logging multimeter.)

The color graphs were run by the Sandwich Shoppe, and appeared on their first website. They are an indication of relative brilliance. (Notice the vertical scale is in foot candles.)

Notice how the NiMH & lithium cells tend to discharge with a flatter curve than alkalines do. Using NiMH in a MadMax seems to perform in a more "regulated" manner.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




MadMax:

MadMax w/alkalines
(Everactive alkaline cells):
mad_a2.jpg




MadMax w/lithiums
(Energizer e² lithium cells):
mad_lit.jpg




MadMax Cyan w/alkalines
(Everactive alkaline cells):
madcyana.jpg




MadMax Adjustable w/alkalines
(Everactive alkaline cells):
mmadj.jpg




MadMax+ Q3 w/alkalines
(Energizer alkaline cells):
mmQ3.jpg




MadMax+ Q3 w/lithiums
(Energizer e² lithium cells):
minimini2.sized.jpg



M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³





MadMax+ w/ONE AA CELL:

MadMax+ Q3 in a Rothrandir mini-mini-Mag or M³ (M cubed) w/lithium
(Energizer e² lithium):
minimini_1.sized.jpg


M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³M³





BadBoy:

BadBoy Yellow w/NiMH
(Nexcel 1700 mAh NiMH cells):
bb.jpg




BadBoy NiMH vs. alkaline cell comparison
(Kirkland alkaline cells vs. Kodak NiMH cells):
bb_bb.jpg


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





MadMax vs. BadBoy comparisons:

MadMax vs. Badboy with a variety of cells:
bb_mm_1.jpg




MadMax vs. BadBoy
(Both w/Kodak 1600 mAh NiMH cells):
bb_mm.jpg


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Downboys:
downboys.jpg


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mini-Mag Incandescent (for comparison to the sandwiches):

Mini-Mag & standard incandescent bulb w/alkalines
(Everactive alkaline cells):
mmago.sized.jpg


-----------------------------------------------------

*EDIT* - Moved pics to LogicNerd's server. They look MUCH better, and should be working most of the time now.
 

StoneDog

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
1,591
Location
Suwanee, GA
Re: MadMax & BadBoy Runtime Graphs

Am I reading this right? Did the MM+ Q3 (on Lithiums)really run 2 hours and 50 minutes before dropping out? And then what happened after that - it looks like it jumps again?


Jon
 

dat2zip

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Messages
3,420
Location
Bay Area
Re: MadMax & BadBoy Runtime Graphs

I'm pretty sure the Badboy graph timescale is 2X. I think I goofed on that one. I think the runtime is 120 minutes and not 240. Just wanted to clear that in case someone thinks the Badboy will run 240 minutes on regular batteries. While this may be true for the latest NiMH batteries, it is not true for regular Alkalines. Also, the bump near the end is me changing the light meter scale.

Thanks for putting all the plots together in one place. This is nice.

Wayne
 

shankus

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 16, 2003
Messages
1,472
Location
Mojave, CA
Re: MadMax & BadBoy Runtime Graphs

[ QUOTE ]
StoneDog said:
Am I reading this right? Did the MM+ Q3 (on Lithiums)really run 2 hours and 50 minutes before dropping out?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, that is what Roy recorded.
I don't know why the graph jumps like that, though.
 

StoneDog

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
1,591
Location
Suwanee, GA
Re: MadMax & BadBoy Runtime Graphs

Wow... I think I need to track down a MM+ Q3... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Jon
 

Roy

Farewell our Curmudgeon Administrator
Joined
Apr 14, 2002
Messages
4,465
Location
Granbury, Tx USA
Re: MadMax & BadBoy Runtime Graphs

What you're seeing on the MM+Q is the remains of the previous chart. The plot wraps around and if you stop the plot early, then you get the apparent huge step in the plot. The software does not erase the previous graph when it starts a new graph. Sorry for the confusion.
 

Y2Kirk1028

Enlightened
Joined
Dec 13, 2002
Messages
234
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Re: MadMax & BadBoy Runtime Graphs

Those graphs are very useful thanks to everyone who was involved.

Question: Based on the same setup in these tests, what would be the projected runtime of BB and MM on C, and D cells?
 

this_is_nascar

Flashaholic
Joined
Mar 29, 2002
Messages
8,340
Location
Gloucester, New Jersey
Re: MadMax & BadBoy Runtime Graphs

OK, I'm still confused, even after reading this. I want to power one of these sandwiches with 1 x AA cell, with that ability to drive it with 2 and 3 x AA cells as well. The 1 x AA cell configuration will be the primary setup.

That being said, which sandwich am I better off with?
 

Roy

Farewell our Curmudgeon Administrator
Joined
Apr 14, 2002
Messages
4,465
Location
Granbury, Tx USA
Re: MadMax & BadBoy Runtime Graphs

look here for a discussion of using a MadMax+ in a chopped minimag.
 

shankus

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 16, 2003
Messages
1,472
Location
Mojave, CA
Re: MadMax & BadBoy Runtime Graphs

[ QUOTE ]
this_is_nascar said:
I want to power one of these sandwiches with 1 x AA cell, with that ability to drive it with 2 and 3 x AA cells as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think you can run the MadMax from 3 cells. If I remember correctly, the max Vin is ~3.1V.


*EDIT* I was wrong, look at the info here:
MadMax board

It seems that the Vin max is 5V, or limited by the Vf of the luxeon.

The bare board specs say 5V. The complete sandwich specs says 3.1V, or limitied by the Vf of the luxeon.
Perhaps Wayne could clear this up. *EDIT*
 

dat2zip

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Messages
3,420
Location
Bay Area
Re: MadMax & BadBoy Runtime Graphs

Madmax is a boost converter. Vin should always be less than the Vf of the LED. So, if you had an LED with a Vf of 5V, you could run it up to 5V. A typical 1W Luxeon is around 3-4V.

Wayne
 

Bullzeyebill

Flashaholic
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
12,164
Location
CA
Re: MadMax & BadBoy Runtime Graphs

So, with MM or MM+, if you have an R2H with a vf under 3 volts you would be better off running two NiMh's than two alkalines starting at 3.2 volts or two lithiums starting at 3.4? So that vin is lower than vf of led?

Bill
 

StoneDog

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
1,591
Location
Suwanee, GA
Re: MadMax & BadBoy Runtime Graphs

Has anyone done a similar graph using a MM or MM+ and a single 123?

Jon
 

Roy

Farewell our Curmudgeon Administrator
Joined
Apr 14, 2002
Messages
4,465
Location
Granbury, Tx USA
Re: MadMax & BadBoy Runtime Graphs

Stone Dog....see my previous posting above.
 

BentHeadTX

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 29, 2002
Messages
3,892
Location
A very strange dark place
Re: MadMax & BadBoy Runtime Graphs

Bullz,
I run a R2H in a 2D Mag with two D cell alkalines, it runs very bright and suffering no damage. I think under load, the voltage sags a tenth or two and the R2H is rated at 3.03 to 3.27 volts. I don't think there will be a problem.
 

StoneDog

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
1,591
Location
Suwanee, GA
Re: MadMax & BadBoy Runtime Graphs

Roy,

I'm not seeing it. Don't those graphs represent runtimes on L91 AA Lithiums?

Jon
 

StoneDog

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
1,591
Location
Suwanee, GA
Re: MadMax & BadBoy Runtime Graphs

OK, OK, so the short answer is "No, nobody has done a run time analysis of an MM+ on a single CR123"...

I'll dig back into the woodwork now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jon
 

Roy

Farewell our Curmudgeon Administrator
Joined
Apr 14, 2002
Messages
4,465
Location
Granbury, Tx USA
Re: MadMax & BadBoy Runtime Graphs

If someone will send me a 1x123 light with a MadMax+, I'll be more than happy to do a runtime plot on it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif
 
Top