██ SCAM ██ 15 watt Ostar LED bicycle light ██ SCAM ██

[Greta]

I wasn't aware he had been banned in the past.
Would it be possible to disclose the reasons why this happened at the time?

This information is probably available somewhere on CPF but I bet 90% of the CPFers that ordered from him after this happened did not know about it.

It raise the question, how can the average CPFer be aware of the members that have had problems with the board before ? Have been suspected of crossing a line ?

Could the forums be equiped with a "reputation" feature ?

DM51's post that banned him is HERE. You can read before and after that to see what happened.

FWIW, I am the one who overturned the ban because there were people involved in a pre-pay at the time. I informed Mike by email that I unbanned him. As this is an email that I myself wrote, it is not a violation of any CPF rules... It was written on February 4th of this year.

Mike,

I have lifted your ban. I will tell you though that this is the last chance you will get... (help you out this one time?!?!? Please!) There have been WAY too many dramas and "situations" involving you over the past couple of years and there does reach a point where we have to ask ourselves if it really does benefit the commuity to keep you around. A search for your username in the Admin forum has far too many results... that is not a good thing.

Yes, you have been around for awhile... (btw, you probably shouldn't be posting that you've been around since 1998 considering CPF didn't even come on line until July 2000... and *I* have been a member longer than you have!... you seriously lose credibility when you blatantly lie like that.)

Mike, it comes down to you knowing better. Being an "old-timer" is the worst excuse you can give! Having been around for so long, it is expected that you would know the rules better than anyone. And just because you've been around so long doesn't mean that you get special treatment. Do you really expect me to have a double standard like that? C'mon Mike... you know better. You broke the rules... TB pushed your buttons and you fell for it hook, line and sinker. Why didn't you contact a moderator or admin when he started to poke so one of us could have checked it out before it got out of hand? Why is it that you are the one who always ends up involved in stuff like this? OH! ... and while I'm asking questions, why haven't you posted for your friends over at CLF the "special" PM that you sent to Scott? Threatening someone's life, Mike? Really? Does CPF REALLY need members like that? I'm not so sure.

Bottom line is this Mike... you know the rules. If you don't, then by all means, please refresh yourself... it's in your best interest. I'm sick of the drama that surrounds you and the disruptions to the forums. If you are having an issue with someone, let one of the mods or admins know... don't take it upon yourself to handle it by violating forum policies. I will guarantee you that you will always lose when you do that. TB didn't break any forum policies, thus he didn't get banned. Period. That is the only criteria that is used to decide what to do. The day I start showing preference and giving passes to "old-timers" is the day I shut down the site for good.

I would recommend that you wrap up your sale now.

Kelly

[easilyled]

You know this is not what is going on.

More mob mentality if you ask me.

What MJ did was try and offer a light that he had his personal stock of prime LEDs sent to the MFG to have installed in the light and then sell them here on CPF.

Of course MJ pays for shipping from the MFG to him and then he has to charge shipping from his location to the final customer location.

Since MJ dealt with MFG A and possibly someone found the same base light from MFG B which has a lower list price does not make this a scam.

It may not be the best idea to take such a risk to have a stock product modified with your own LED prime stock and take on the double shipment cost. This drives the end cost up as shown here on CPF. There is nothing to compare to regarding this. It is a risk MJ took and offered accordingly here on CPF. It may have not been the best judgment call on his part, but, in no way is this a scam. He is out a lot of money on this investment.

Just because you may have had a less than happy outcome on some other dealings with MJ doesn't imply this thread is a scam, nor, does everyone have all the facts.

I would appreciate this thread closed and the word scam removed as it was a offered gone sour on both sides.

Thanks,

Wayne

Sorry Wayne, but this is complete nonsense. This is not how this light or the X6 or X6 Cannon lights were represented.

They were portrayed as being MJ's own designs based on years of hard work and research and sold at 3 or 4 times the price.

You either haven't read post #2 or you're deliberately misrepresenting the facts yourself.

Either way, you're not covering yourself in any glory by trying to defend the indefensible.

[tino_ale]

What MJ did was try and offer a light that he had his personal stock of prime LEDs sent to the MFG to have installed in the light and then sell them here on CPF.

Even IF this is really what he did I do not see how any normal humain being could understand this after reading the original sale thread. How could the customer possibly get that the same light is produced and sold in HUNDREDS and that the only difference between the production model and the x4 priced "custom" units was the LED bin.

And BTW this is NOT even consistent with what ARC explained in post #16.

I would appreciate this thread closed and the word scam removed as it was a offered gone sour on both sides.

Uh ???

[Henk_Lu]

You know this is not what is going on.

More mob mentality if you ask me.

What MJ did was try and offer a light that he had his personal stock of prime LEDs sent to the MFG to have installed in the light and then sell them here on CPF.

Of course MJ pays for shipping from the MFG to him and then he has to charge shipping from his location to the final customer location.

Since MJ dealt with MFG A and possibly someone found the same base light from MFG B which has a lower list price does not make this a scam.

It may not be the best idea to take such a risk to have a stock product modified with your own LED prime stock and take on the double shipment cost. This drives the end cost up as shown here on CPF. There is nothing to compare to regarding this. It is a risk MJ took and offered accordingly here on CPF. It may have not been the best judgment call on his part, but, in no way is this a scam. He is out a lot of money on this investment.

Just because you may have had a less than happy outcome on some other dealings with MJ doesn't imply this thread is a scam, nor, does everyone have all the facts.

I would appreciate this thread closed and the word scam removed as it was a offered gone sour on both sides.

Thanks,

Wayne

Has Mike told you such a story or have you figured that out yourself?

I agree this is mob mentality and objectivity I don't see. Mike hasn't told us much yet and it is impossible to tell by his posting what has happened.

If I were Mike, I wouldn't come here now, if you shot someone, you won't go out and stand before the mob who wants you lynched either, to tell them it was self-defense, they won't listen (but kill you)...

[LuxLuthor]

Major recognition and thanks to DM51 & Greta for preserving original content, geting to the bottom of the issue, and giving it the public airing it needs.

I think "Arc Mania" might consider asking to have his name to "Arc Depressive" then at least the (bipolar) insanity defense is somewhat mitigating. (my style of humor)

Yes this has been seen many times. I think it highlights just how hard it is to keep your head above water trying to make custom lights an income earner. I don't think most people appreciate just how hard it is. I think this lead to some desperation on his part and he went down a path that I'm sure he wasn't entirely happy with as he has clearly made products in the past people were enamored with.

One of the dangers I have always seen here is the presale. It is so dangerous for both parties. As a builder I know that rarely do your best laid plans work out like you think they would. The problem with a presale is that as a builder you are now committed to make the product at a set price and that may mean that with the unforeseen issues you are having to do so at a great loss. That then takes the fun out of building and makes it difficult to fulfill your obligations. If I can't make it with my own money then it's not going to happen. It is just better that way.

Although this all appears to be an epic fail at least it does not seem to have risen to the level that some of the builder failures of the past have been where money was exchanged and no product ever shipped. Silver lining?

I had that same worry about you when borrowing family money to take that step of getting more expensive lathe equipment, because you have been such a wonderful member, and I hope you are still doing OK with your projects & cash flow.

Personally, I don't think pre-pays should be allowed--EVER, or perhaps only to a certain $$ amount, and if granted permission by the mod staff based on those few custom builders that have stellar reputations, and with limited individual & total $$$ invested. That is essentially what a bank does in evaluating your application for a project loan...and the mods know a lot more about who all of us are than the members. I see people doing pre-pays as similar to the irresponsible homeowners who knew they could never pay for a mortgage, but being given taxpayer money with no downpayment, no credit, nothing at risk. Of course a percentage of those people will walk away since they got it with other people's money (OPM).

Having a "seriously interested" thread is fine, and the seller can then guage the liklihood of doing a successful run.

[CrowdGather]

I wish this thread was unstickied so that this forum wouldn't look so busy. I find it very distracting to look at while I am shopping.

[F250XLT]

I wish this thread was unstickied so that this forum wouldn't look so busy. I find it very distracting to look at while I am shopping.

Mike, is that you

[rayman]

This thread is so sad . I always thought ARC Mania was a great modder.

rayman

[fyrstormer]

Given how much design copying goes on in the Far East, it does seem plausible that Mike's design could've been reproduced at a lower quality with similar outward appearance. Or maybe all he ever designed was the circuitry anyway, and the casing was selected by the manufacturer. Anyone who's bought from (or even browsed) DealExtreme and similar websites knows how often cheap replicas of products turn up on there. The Chinese are famous for finding ways to lower the manufacturing costs of products in ways that won't be noticed until the products break sooner than anticipated. So just because it looks exactly the same, that doesn't mean if you took it apart that all the parts would be the same quality, made from the same materials, with all the same components on the circuit boards, etc.

I'm not saying that's what happened, just that it's possible.

[RAGE CAGE]

Mike, is that you

Now THAT was funny.....

[RAGE CAGE]

Ok- I guess the $64,000.00 question now is what is up with the pre paid ti lights that were supposed to be going for something like $1050.00...


from:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=256850

The pre-payment price is $1050.00. This includes express mail shipping and covers Paypal service fees. If the numbers of pre-paid lights exceed 25pcs total, I will refund $100.00 as the price will come down by this amount. For those wanting an under-driven 15 watt Ostar please add $50.00 or a second reflector for $12.00. There is no extra cost with choosing the Ostar SMT or Nichia NCSW119T.

If you are interested in pre-paying for a Titanium SF-III, send your payment to arcmania (at) hotmail (dot) com Your payment will determine your place in line on the list unless you ask for a specific number and its available.

Please I ask again, when sending payment, include your complete shipping address and your CPF NAME along with what you are paying for. I will end the pre-payment on the 31st of January or if 30 units sell out before this date. I know that most of us have suffered damage during the holidays and I am extending the cut off date to give members time to recover. If you have any questions, post on this thread or send me a PM.

[CrowdGather]

Mike, is that you

Nicole?? I miss you sweetie!

[saabluster]

Just to clarify my point : I don't know Glenn7 and he can totally be a legit and great member. My point is ARC could have been playing around with different names and it's a possibility that should not be overlooked when trying to sort things out. If you know this for a fact, no problem and again I don't know him. I guess I just wanted to say "everything is possible".

I agree everything is possible but it might have been better to use an anonymous name to make your point. I have sent lights to Glenn and unless MJ has a second house there in Australia I think it is fair to say these are different people.

I had that same worry about you when borrowing family money to take that step of getting more expensive lathe equipment, because you have been such a wonderful member, and I hope you are still doing OK with your projects & cash flow.

I be lying if I said everything was perfect and I was swimming in money. Yes indeed the lathe purchase was probably a bit premature but I did not use money from a presale here to pay for it. I am meeting my obligations on all fronts even though it means I don't cut myself a check. For now my payment is the joy that comes from being intimately involved in my favorite hobby. New stuff coming soon but that belongs in another thread.

Personally, I don't think pre-pays should be allowed--EVER, or perhaps only to a certain $$ amount, and if granted permission by the mod staff based on those few custom builders that have stellar reputations, and with limited individual & total $$$ invested. That is essentially what a bank does in evaluating your application for a project loan...and the mods know a lot more about who all of us are than the members. I see people doing pre-pays as similar to the irresponsible homeowners who knew they could never pay for a mortgage, but being given taxpayer money with no downpayment, no credit, nothing at risk. Of course a percentage of those people will walk away since they got it with other people's money (OPM).

Having a "seriously interested" thread is fine, and the seller can then guage the liklihood of doing a successful run.

Agreed. I don't have a problem with the prepay as a group buy of existing products. It is when a builder is using funds for a product that doesn't even exist yet that I see major issues. How do you calculate in all the unknowns? What if it didn't even occur to you to do so in the first place? When I first started making lights at yours and Gene's encouragement I thought in my mind that I would be able to make the DEFT for about $75 with an individualized bezel for each light for an extra $25 or so. Knowing what I know now that has to be one of the most preposterous things to have ever emanated out of my head. Had I done a presale back then I most certainly would have been run right out of CPF. Presale=

[RAGE CAGE]

Nicole?? I miss you sweetie!

lol...crowd gatherer will be appearing here all week- don't forget to tip your bartender. Thanks for the levity- it is helping the crushing reality of what this likely is...a giant cluster ....

[proline]

You guys crack me up. You don't like what he is offering, don't buy from him.

You have tried, convicted and crucified him. He can't even get on now to defend himself and you wouldn't listen anyway.

You're a mob right now. Can't wait to get out the rope and hang him. Whinny babies. I have not seen so much venom produced in such a short time. The guys is down and out and you're all getting your kicks in. Must make you all feel like real men. You're all grabbing your sacks and feeling good about it. Don't like my opinion?? Too bad because I don't like yours either.

You hate the guy now. Fine so be it. Get it all out of your system. I guess that's what this forum is for.

I have never seen Greta allow such bashing on a main thread like this before. This should have been closed and moved to the Jeers section. Now it is a sticky of all things. Well maybe this will happen to one of you illustrious characters and then you will know what if feels like.

I am not defending Mike, just objecting to the bashing you people are giving this. Such a monster, such a predator Mike is. My gosh we have now all been saved from the dasterdly deeds of such an evil person.

I feel better now for all this, do you???

[CrowdGather]

proline for president!

[ma_sha1]

Nicole?? I miss you sweetie!

Even thou you might appears to be on the wrong side of CrowdGathering, I got to admit that's Freaken funny

[griff]

Proline,
Do some research on MJ ..........

[Henk_Lu]

I'd close this thread NOW.

I guess I needn't use the magic button this time as everybody having a red button is watching...

[tino_ale]

Proline, would you feel the same way if you were one of the people who have paid premium for supposedly custom flashlights, and discovered at the time the "custom maker" sold it to you it was mass produced already for a fraction of the price ?

[proline]

Proline,
Do some research on MJ ..........

Yeah well so who's perfect.

Granted maybe he has not done so hot in the past and maybe he has done well. Either way people have bought from him and maybe or maybe not have had their issues. I like what I have bought from him and I expect him to keep his promise of the Black and Ti lights. If he breaks that promise then I will have something derogatory to say.

I have had good luck with him so far. That could change but until it does...

[F250XLT]

Yeah well so who's perfect.

Granted maybe he has not done so hot in the past and maybe he has done well. Either way people have bought from him and maybe or maybe not have had their issues. I like what I have bought from him and I expect him to keep his promise of the Black and Ti lights. If he breaks that promise then I will have something derogatory to say.

I have had good luck with him so far. That could change but until it does...

So as long as he hasn't ripped you off, you have no problem with him dealing in lies and deceit with others.....NICE

[LuxLuthor]

Proline, I saw your post as the worst example of nasty, venomous language in the entire post. Much worse than anything said about Arc.

How come you didn't seem to have a problem "piling on" in this similar deceptive practices thread?

Que?

For reference, I do feel good when I grab my sack.

[JonN06]

So as long as he hasn't ripped you off, you have no problem with him dealing in lies and deceit with others.....NICE

+ 1

I'm more of a Chevy guy myself, but I do like your logic.

[proline]

Proline, would you feel the same way if you were one of the people who have paid premium for supposedly custom flashlights, and discovered at the time the "custom maker" sold it to you it was mass produced already for a fraction of the price ?

Already happened to me but not by Mike. Not all vendors are honest and up front.

One does ones best to get the best deal and the best product at the time of purchase. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes not. S**T happens and sometimes it's unavoidable.One makes the best buying decision possible and then you see where the chips of the purchase fall. If it went well every things fine, if it doesn't then you deal with it. Nobody wants to get burned but it happens.

[RAGE CAGE]

Proline............are you that delusional?
We are mobsters? REALLY???????
From Greta's earlier post-
"Threatening someone's life, Mike? Really? Does CPF REALLY need members like that? I'm not so sure."

Are you telling us all here that you can find some logic to defend his actions?

classy with the namecalling BTW

[proline]

Proline, I saw your post as the worst example of nasty, venomous language in the entire post. Much worse than anything said about Arc.

How come you didn't seem to have a problem "piling on" in this similar deceptive practices thread?

Que?

For reference, I do feel good when I grab my sack.

I do to.

All the boys are being opinionated so why not me??

[proline]

Proline............are you that delusional?
We are mobsters? REALLY???????
From Greta's earlier post-
"Threatening someone's life, Mike? Really? Does CPF REALLY need members like that? I'm not so sure."

Are you telling us all here that you can find some logic to defend his actions?

classy with the namecalling BTW

So who is being delusional here. I am not defending Mike I am bashing you guys.

[lumafist]

... very insightful...

As I reported to you 1.5 years ago or so Greta and did not get ANY feedback at all.

I did try to get all this nonsence out but ARC-mania was THE name back then I guess...?

Well, well..


BTW. good work David....!

[fyrstormer]

I pretty much agree with Proline, if not necessarily his language. If Mike has been such a problem, just ban him and get it over with. Stickying his sales thread and allowing people to bash it like would not be permitted anywhere else on CPF is making the whole thing way too personal.