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Thread: Philips LED bike light

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Philips LBL vs. Trelock LS 950

    Quote Originally Posted by lampenjung View Post
    Hi all, hi Wouter!

    I must protest.

    I cannot underline the cons! I think swhs had read my new posts. Or not?
    No, my posting was just after BlauBrummBrumm made his assesment on radforum.de, and I also got a report from Vienna giving the same view of the beamshape, which was confirmed by his beamshots.

    Well, there is some difference of opinion on e.g. which beamshape is best, but I think maximum brightness of the beam, on the road, is similar for Edelux, LS950, Philips LBL. The LS950 can appear brighter than another lamp of lower colour temperature. The difference between these 3 is really that the LBL maintains a high brightness over a larger area, and it has a far longer throw than the edelux and presumably the LS950 (I can see 70m far with the LBL on unlit roads, as opposed to 45m (50m at best) with the Edelux, not sure about the LS950), the width is obviously much bigger, it lights up the entire road. If you need more brightness, concentrating the light on a narrower strip of light as the LS950 does, can work, but to be honest, for most people the brightness of the LBL is enough for just about any speed. Of course not everyone's eyes are the same sensitivity, but to light up the road brighter a huge increase in lightoutput is needed because of the non-linear nature of human vision: This is also why camera's have trouble capturing what we see btw. (esp. the edges are not shown as we see them, dark instead of somewhat lit up)

    I read that for a 20% increase in perceived brightness (what we experience as brightness) the actualy physical (measured) brightness must increase 100%...

    So for a little bit of extra brightness you need double the power. This is why there is not going to be much improvement over the LBL soon.

    I do wonder how well the B&M Big bang does, if anyone has one he can lend out for a test/comparison, I'm interested!



    Quote Originally Posted by lampenjung View Post
    "It's clear: The Philips LBL remains king in usable lightoutput and beam quality. Supernova Airstream & Trelock LS 950 are no match at all."

    No, all of them are no match! Waiting of a better lamp in 2012 or 2013.
    Btw., the Philips LBL is now a little over 2 years old... I already thought LEDs should be made in not square shape, but rectangles, for cutoff beams, and the altilon does something which comes close to that. Perhaps that is needed to get the really big improvements, as making a cutoff optic with XP-G and XM-L is not easy at all. I really wonder how well the Philips e-bike lamp is going to perform (which uses Altilons).

  2. #62

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Quote Originally Posted by Savvas View Post
    Is it clear that there is to be a revision or a new model in 2012/12? Reference somewhere?

    Thanks,

    Savvas.
    Sorry, i have no informations. But new Led's, new hope

  3. #63

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light use w/o taillight?

    Hi,

    Does anyone have information about using the safelight dynamo light without a taillight attached? Specifically, can I use the unit without blowing the circuits?
    I've been been burnt in the past with an Inoled 20 lamp burning out on a fast downhill riding a nighttime brevet and don't wish to repeat the experience.

    Thanks

  4. #64

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light use w/o taillight?

    I think the specific issue was an inherent problem for Inoled. These days taillights may take as little current as 35mA, i.e. unlikely to make a difference. If you are concerned, you can always implement high power Zeners as a protection.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light use w/o taillight?

    I've been using my early model Saferide quite happily without a tail light for 2 years. Works fine. I've had no problems at all. There seem to be a lot of electronics in there - I'm sure Philips have worked it all out. The aluminium case on the Philips (as oposed to plastic on the Ino) plus the use of twin leds seems also likely to ensure better power handling.

    It's a shame that Peter White doesn't handle Philips (yet). I'm sure this is the sort of information he would ferret out. If you can read German or Dutch I'm sure the relevant information is available on European sites.

    Savvas.
    Last edited by Savvas; 01-09-2012 at 02:48 PM.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light use w/o taillight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Savvas View Post
    I've been using my early model Saferide quite happily without a tail light for 2 years. Works fine. I've had no problems at all. There seem to be a lot of electronics in there - I'm sure Philips have worked it all out. The aluminium case on the Philips (as oposed to plastic on the Ino) plus the use of twin leds seems also likely to ensure better power handling.

    It's a shame that Peter White doesn't handle Philips (yet). I'm sure this is the sort of information he would ferret out. If you can read German or Dutch I'm sure the relevant information is available on European sites.

    Savvas.
    I feel much better now with this information, thanks! Now to mod the mount once my light arrives from Europe!

  7. #67
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    Sigh Re: Philips LED bike light use w/o taillight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Savvas View Post
    I've been using my early model Saferide quite happily without a tail light for 2 years.
    It wasn't introduced until eurobike 2010 and not generally available before early 2011. So how did you get one 2 years ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by Savvas View Post
    It's a shame that Peter White doesn't handle Philips (yet). I'm sure this is the sort of information he would ferret out.
    Just like he got to the bottom of the issue of vibrations with dynamo hubs?

    Oops: The above line edited because of missing "of the".


    And as I'm editing I also wanted to say this which is related to Peter White and that he supposedly does good tests. Someone mentioned to me that he hasn't done any real testing for quite some time, as this issue is in line with that.

    It was Peter White who emailed me with the BS story that the vibrations would be gone when tightening the skewer. I told him it was to do with resonance frequency, mass of the tyre, wheel, fork. Of course he never replied to my explanation, but then that's what happens. He sells those hubs and probably has a hard time explaining away vibrations so easily as "you are doing something wrong", because on my website this issue is not taken to be a trivial matter that people are whining about.

    I'm getting pretty tired of SON28-owners-club fanatics in general, who can't deal with the fact that I don't like the SON28 because of the strong vibrations.

    I read a thread on a forum recently, on google groups:

    http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-o...87be4dae62d8b7

    It shows how people make (wrong, negative) assumptions.

    On my website I have a page about forums because of postings saying my tests are subjective:

    http://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/tes...etatie_en.html

    I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me, but then I need an argument, and that's what people like that don't do, or they make (wrong) assumptions.

    Am I smug on that page? Certainly not (someone said I was, but that was his wrong interpretation, just as he incorrectly assumed my tests are all from 2007-2008 (just reading through the pages makes it clear this is BS, and all is kept current as you can see from the 'Last modified' in the source, or with highlight), and his incorrect reading of what I wrote about drag. He says that I write that dynamo drag gets lower at high speed, but I don't say any such thing!))

    Am I harsh on that page? Yes, and justifiably so! People who make incorrect (negative) assumptions about what I know or have tested despite all the evidence of details I give on my website are simply nuts. I can't put it any other way. Anyone who thinks I don't understand the physics of dynamos and vibrations hasn't read my website.

    The one guy on that thread on gougle groups who makes a relatively good comment about testing dynamos for vibrations loose, doesn't seem to understand that this is not required if you do the right tests in the bike. And if you test in the bike (or bikes) you get more information namely whether the vibrations can be felt at all or go under in other vibrations from even good roads, or are absorbed enough by the grips etc. etc. Anyone who thinks I don't test all such things, and different tyres, really, really doesn't understand anything about my website and my tests. It can only be made by someone who has NOT properly read it. But then that is clear because he says that vibration tests don't say if it will happen on a particular bike. Yes, indeedy, that's what I said since I made my website in 2008! This is what resonance is all about! And on my much expanded (compared to 2008) website I mention that multiple times in various places! He also says it's not possible to know which hub vibrates most, and this is complete and utter bullshit.

    I know physics, and I know a lot about psychology, also a bit about physiology. All matter in determining whether a product is good or not.

    Vibrations are the main issue for dynamo hubs, along with efficiency, although for me that is moot (see the speed change calculations on my website as an example that shows how little speed changes for fast cyclists with a few Watt more or less to a dynamo).

    Beamshape in particular is a case of all, I will give some examples:
    - Physics: Lighting op the road, so beam width, beam length, beam strength, beam shape, neutral white LEDs are better because you see more with them (yellow, brown, not all greens becoming a single green blob).

    - Psychology: If the beam shape has sharp formed edges/corners, hard or soft transition from beam to darkness. A beam such as of the Cyo R/RT can give a feeling of driving in a tunnel of light. Hotspots in the beam and sharp edges/corners attract attention. Artefacts outside the main beam are not so bad as artefacts within the main beam, etc.

    - Physiology: Light colour (neutral white is easier on the eyes, cool white gives more eye strain).

    I describe all that, and then people give me this nonsense about biased reviews. Why the hell do these idiots then not critcize esp. magazine reviews as "total and utter crap that's not worth reading"? Because magazine reviews deal with almost none of what I take into account in my reviews.

    Am I smug about dismissing criticism on other forums? Hell no, I am simply annoyed that people who don't know what the hell they are talking about say I am biased.

    And that people such as Peter White don't have the decency to reply to my explanation of resonance + jolt strength etc. being the problem, not a skewer.

    I read on CTC a posting by a guy with a SON28+Cyo RT + crappy B&M taillamp who was obviously annoyed (from his response he must really hate me ;-)) that I disliked all of these. Actually, dislike is only the case for the SON28 which is a good but not great product, the other 2 are simply bad products. And such people feel the need to justify their purchases or something.

    I guess these people are fanboys, and there's no arguing with such people, ever, because they don't reason, don't think about arguments the other gives.

    The only real bias I have is in some details about what is acceptable in taillamps/headlamps. E.g. flashing is no good because it attracts too much attention, and disallows distance estimation for example. This is also explained on my website and that even if this can be good in countries where roads are shared with motorised traffic going 100km/h or more to differentiate between bicycles/cars, the problem that it makes distance estimating impossible remains.

    So, do I dismiss all criticism? No, I always think about all comments/criticism, and I reply...
    Last edited by swhs; 01-28-2012 at 06:41 PM.

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light use w/o taillight?

    Quote Originally Posted by swhs View Post
    The only real bias I have...

    Ebay Item number: 320714933342

    eBay Lnk Removed, replaced with item # - Norm
    Last edited by Norm; 01-29-2012 at 02:09 AM.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light use w/o taillight?

    Quote Originally Posted by swhs View Post
    It wasn't introduced until eurobike 2010 and not generally available before early 2011. So how did you get one 2 years ago?
    My apologies swhs - I was obviously exercising a bit of temporal license (probably brought on by excessive years on this mortal coil!) I bought one the instant they became available online in Germany - from roseversand in fact. My email record tells me that I paid for it in January 2011. So apologies - my use spans about 12 months - not 2 years. Still. it's been a very satisfactory 12 months!
    Savvas.

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light use w/o taillight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Savvas View Post
    My apologies swhs - I was obviously exercising a bit of temporal license (probably brought on by excessive years on this mortal coil!) I bought one the instant they became available online in Germany - from roseversand in fact. My email record tells me that I paid for it in January 2011. So apologies - my use spans about 12 months - not 2 years. Still. it's been a very satisfactory 12 months!
    Savvas.
    No need to apologize, I was just curious, to see if perhaps you had got hold of a very early engineering sample!

    And talking about bias: I don't get samples earlier than other people. It's usually some time later, Olaf Schultz got samples of the Saferide 60 way before me for example... So Philips doesn't give me preferential treatment...

    Oh, btw, the mounting bracket but also the plastic holder has changed in the newer Saferide 60 dynamo lamps, It seems better regarding vibrations, and it has no flattened section around the bolt, but I still need to pump up the tyre very hard and see what happens then. I got this bracket from the pedelec lamp that I accidentally fried, so I mounted it on the Dynamo lamp

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Quote Originally Posted by HakanC View Post
    I decided to modify my light to use an external LiION 7,4V (2S2P) battery (a MS900-battery from DX)
    The LED driver in the light needs a input voltage of 4 - 6.1V so I decided to use a 5V DC-DC converter from DX!
    http://www.dealextreme.com/p/vmp3202...c-module-47815
    Data sheet: http://img.v-module.com/datasheets/DS_VMP3202_3.pdf
    The DC-DC converter is cheap and so small that it fits inte the battery compartment, and it is so effective that with the MS900-battery connected the light housing gets warmer then the DC-DC converter!
    Quote Originally Posted by HakanC View Post
    The DC-DC converter needs a (max)5V enable, I used a 4,7V zener and a resistor.


    My test setup

    The DC-DC convertor only gets warm, not hot at all.

    I'm a newbie, and trying to understand exactly how you have the VMP3202 wired. Could you clarify the component values and pinouts? I can read schematics, and know enough to be dangerous, but don't know enough to design much or figure out how that ENABLE pin works.

  12. #72

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Sorry for not following up on this.
    But since I only replaced the battery with the 5V DC-DC converter from DX all the rest of the electronisc in the light was left untouched.
    Because of this I found out, the hard way, that the battery monitoring electronics in the Philips light includes a timer.
    And with the voltage from the DC-DC converter the timer trigs after 45mins,
    This means that the light will be forced into low mode, if I disconnect the battery it will run another 45mins before the timer forces the light into low mode again.

    Because of the I decided to bypass the built in electronics completely
    During the autumn of 2011 I bought a new Philips-light and a LFlex http://taskled.com/lflex.html
    a b2Flex is of course more efficient, but wouldnt work with my MS-battery.

    The modifications was straightforward, and easy, here is what the finished light looks like

    (I know, sloppy glueing but it works and it is a silicon thermal glue: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/fujik-s...ease-like-4579)

    I also used the original button and increased the current through the LEDs to 1000mA, about 40% higher.
    And accoding to my Lux-meter there is also 40% more light, from 80-90 Lux to 110-120 Lux
    I also set the LFlex up in a mode with three current levels.

    Finally I am more then satisfied with my modified light.
    I now have a brighter light, three light levels and no 45 min limit.
    My guess is that I get about 4 hours out of at MS-battery, not as long as it could be.
    But for me it is more then enough.

    So if you want to modify a Philips 80 Lux battery Light to use an external battery,
    my advise is to bypass the built in electroniscs.
    Last edited by HakanC; 10-16-2012 at 11:52 PM.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Hi, two questions:
    1) is there any known difference between the 2011 and 2012 version of this light, apart from 15 € at bike24?

    2) would I be nuts for wanting to run two of these side by side for a really wide beam pattern?

  14. #74

    Default Re: Philips LED dynamo bike light handlebar mount

    Hi Folks,

    Note: you may notice that I've cut 'n pasted from another Philips thread - just trying to understand how the listing of threads at CPF works!


    Thought I'd show off my latest arrangement for my Philips Saferide dynamo light. I have dispensed with the fork crown location and now have it mounted on the bars with a nice R&M bracket. I used a cut length of SS 5mm threaded rod and some washers and SS nyloc nuts as I couldn't find a reasonably priced SS bolt of suitable length.

    The Saferide base needs 20mm of bolt length and the R&M needs 30mm so, barring other attachments, the bolt needs to be about 50mm long. The R&M bracket seems to be designed made for use with lights that only require 10mm of 'bolt space'. They supply a stock SS bolt in this 50mm length and use up the resulting 'extra' 10mm with nifty adjustable cup washers to compensate for any angling of the bracket at the bars. I didn't need these, so could have used the stock bolt. However, just to complicate matters, I also wanted to use one of those 'eyelet' style mounts just in case I ever needed an auxiliary battery headlight or maybe a flasher - probably quite unnecessary but I had a Paul 'Gino' in the parts box anyway.

    Clearances between the Saferide and the stem face are a bit close, mainly because I wanted the Saferide as low as possible. However it does work and I can point the light as far down the road as needed. The R&M brackets seem to be very strong. This is a fairly easy way to mount the Saferide and may get around concerns regarding the stock bracket. As someone has already pointed out, freeing the cable from the rather poorly designed reflector is easy (using either the screwdriver or the more sensitive hammer method)!

    Pictures here (I'm afraid I've forgotten how to insert photos): http://www.flickr.com/photos/4816354...7630361940326/

    Savvas.

  15. #75

    Default Re: Philips LED dynamo bike light handlebar mount

    You can make this light brighter (XM-L)!

  16. #76

    Default Re: Philips LED dynamo bike light handlebar mount

    Quote Originally Posted by mrradlos View Post
    You can make this light brighter (XM-L)!
    It's a fairly impressive result & a clear demonstration of the effectiveness of the Phillips reflector, but at well over $100 plus the cost of the two XM-Ls it is not exactly a cheap option

  17. #77

    Default Re: Philips LED dynamo bike light handlebar mount

    In my own view, for practical purposes the Saferide is quite bright enough for commuting road use. However more lumens might mean a bit more effective spill which might be better for touring and even dark trails etc. Hope Philips are reading all of this...

    Savvas

  18. #78
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    From earlier in this thread, I gathered that this light turned off when plugged in to USB. But Peter White informed me that it can stay on while being charged through the USB port (e.g. with an e-Werk or similar). If White is correct, that might be a quick kludge for those of us who don't want to build our own driver.

    Is this perhaps a difference between 2012 and earlier models? Can anyone confirm that White is right for recent lights? Is the 45-minute timer then disabled?

    And, ideally: what charging current is likely to be required to get into the realm of infinite runtime? Depending on the electronics, the charging losses could be considerable, but many people here are more qualified than I am to hazard a guess, or might even have already measured it.

    Thanks!

  19. #79

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    When my light turns up from Bike24 I'll let you know. 3 weeks and waiting... Shipment left Germany on 28 July...

    Ballpark answer: LEDs consume about 4W, so maybe 5W total consumption, so you'd need at least 1000mA at 5V.

  20. #80

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Well it's here, and still charging for the first time (would be quicker with the supplied 1000mA charger, but it's a euro plug not and Aussie. I've got it on a 850mA phone charger...).

    Can confirm that it turns off when plugged in to charge.

    It was ordered as a 2012 model, which I can only assume it is because it was shipped with no packaging box (just the foam box insert)

  21. #81

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Can anyone explain the charge lighting on this unit? I had mine charging all day at work (8 hours maybe), which should have at least half charged it. It started with the first light pulsing, then the first light stayed on and the second light pulsed - I assume this was it indicating charging up.

    But on the ride home it only lasted 20 minutes before switching to low power mode.

    Now when I try to charge it, it quickly goes into blinking all three lights on about a 3 second interval. Does this indicate a problem? I might try it with some different batteries.

    PS none of this is with the supplied charger as I don't have an adaptor. but it does the same with several other USB chargers.

  22. #82

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    I don't want to spoil your experience with your new light,
    but I don't recommend a initial charge in the light.

    Instead I recommend a stand alone charger with individual charging channels,
    and perhaps evan a Break-in charge cycle
    The one I use is the MaHa MH-C9000
    http://www.mahaenergy.com/store/view...?idproduct=423

    You can also get better batteries, I use the new 2500mAh Sanyo Eneloop XX
    http://www.eneloop.info/products/bat...neloop-xx.html
    I don't know if you can get those down-under, but here in europe they are available for a good price (compared to Sweden) at:
    http://eu.nkon.nl/maha-powerex-sanyo...0-eneloop.html
    €57.60 for the charger and 4 Eneloop XX


    During daily use I would charge the batteries using the built in the charger, but once every 10 (or 20) charge cycles
    I would remove the batteries and charge them in the MH-C9000 (perhaps a Refresh charge cycle)


    /Håkan
    SWEDEN

  23. #83

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    For the ignorant can you explain why please?

    Eneloops can be found, and I have some similar low discharge cells but I'm yet to try them.
    Last edited by Matt King; 08-23-2012 at 06:08 AM.

  24. #84

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Because I belive that it is beneficial to charge the batteries individually.



    /Håkan
    SWEDEN

  25. #85

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    The only AA charger I have is a fast one (2.0A for AAs). Topped up my Varta LSDs and put them in and the light showed up all three lights on the charging scale.

    Topped up the Philips cells, only took about 15 minutes before the charger shut off, even though when charging in the lamp it was only blinking the second charge light when charging, and only showing the first light when operating (after about 15 hours of charging in the light)

    Hopefully it's good to go now. I'm guessing to a point it doesn't matter if I run 2100mAh or 2450mAh cells as the light's timer circuit is apparently independent of actual battery capacity.

  26. #86

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt King View Post
    I'm guessing to a point it doesn't matter if I run 2100mAh or 2450mAh cells as the light's timer circuit is apparently independent of actual battery capacity.
    That is my experience too.
    See my experiment were I replaced the batteries with a 5V DC-DC converter
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...=1#post3679045

  27. #87

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt King View Post
    Can anyone explain the charge lighting on this unit? I had mine charging all day at work (8 hours maybe), which should have at least half charged it. It started with the first light pulsing, then the first light stayed on and the second light pulsed - I assume this was it indicating charging up.

    But on the ride home it only lasted 20 minutes before switching to low power mode.

    Now when I try to charge it, it quickly goes into blinking all three lights on about a 3 second interval. Does this indicate a problem? I might try it with some different batteries.

    PS none of this is with the supplied charger as I don't have an adaptor. but it does the same with several other USB chargers.
    I tried again with another set of batteries, similar thing - it lasted an hour happily, but when charging it went into blink mode and not all LEDs were lit when turned back on... Also I noted that the date stamp on it is 5210 which suggests it's not the 2012 model I paid for...

    Have tried a full discharge and currently charging so we'll see how it goes.

  28. #88

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    I've just bought one of these lights, and I'm inspired to follow Hakan's lead and swap in a b2flex driver so that I can use my existing external battery, and get a little more power.

    Having pulled the light apart, I can just about figure out how to do it (although I'd be interested to see some more photos of the above mod - particularly how you've reused the switch) but one question I have is why are there 4 connections to the LED board? I can see LED+ and LED-, but what are the other two for?

  29. #89

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    See the pics linked in post #75 above. I suspect the extra wires are for thermal monitoring (looks like it says "NTC" = negative temperature coefficient?)

    By the way, follow up to my previous post - mythird set of batteries (Energizer) worked a charm, charges properly now. The "blink" charge-fail indicator is an undocumented feature - very frustrating that the documentation doesn't cover stuff like this. Philips also didn't respond to my email inquiry. I found a similar undocumented feature on my Saferide rear light - when the batteries get low, there is a small green LED that comes on. Very nice to have!
    Last edited by Matt King; 10-16-2012 at 04:56 PM.

  30. #90

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Quote Originally Posted by pdw View Post
    I can just about figure out how to do it (although I'd be interested to see some more photos of the above mod - particularly how you've reused the switch) but one question I have is why are there 4 connections to the LED board? I can see LED+ and LED-, but what are the other two for?
    1st: What Matt King wrote is correct, AFIK

    Regarding more photos, sorry but I don't have any more from my modification.

    But here are two photos from someone else's modification.


    How to connect the LEDs




    And here is a photo of the PCB, that shows how to use the switch, and how to use the blue LEDs on top as STAT LEDs



    (The author wrote that he used too thick wires)


    /Håkan
    SWEDEN
    Last edited by HakanC; 10-16-2012 at 11:40 PM.

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