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Thread: Philips LED bike light

  1. #151
    Flashaholic* Derek Dean's Avatar
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Wow, that's about $40 shipped to the USA (after they return the VAT, which they do before charging your CC)). A phenomenal price for this light, and having bought my B&M IXON IQ Premium from Rosebikes, I can highly recommend them for their quick service to the USA.

  2. #152

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Why didn't Philips make *separate* Far and Near beams - each with it's own reflector/lens - since they use two LEDs anyway? Having two separate tools, each for its own purpose, is more efficient than having one tool, trying to do two things at the same time. Far could have a farther throw and weaker blinding above the cutoff (swhs wrote it's annoyingly bright). Near could be more uniform without the dark-stripe artifact. It's divide and conquer..

    I only see the "nice right-left symmetric looks" as an answere. Any other ideas?

    I guess it is a pointless blabbering - to ask here (I'm sure Philips wouldn't reply if I blabber to them..).. I just hope that understanding this would make me a happier user..

    Or am I wrong - and the reflector is really right-left asymmetric?

    Still, I ordered one..

  3. #153
    Flashaholic* Derek Dean's Avatar
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    I think the answer is that this is an older design and they were simply trying to place an acceptable amount of light on the roadway, thus using 2 LEDs focused in the same area. Anyway, at this price you really can't go wrong. In fact, at this price you could buy another one, aim it lower and run it on low power, and still come out ahead of what many other lights cost.

  4. #154
    Flashaholic Marcturus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Yeah, around 2009, they had their Rebels and the early automotive Altilons. They needed two leds to be sure they were beating one efficiently narrow emitting, cool-white Cree XR-E by a good margin. Not sure they were ready to use a row of the more expensive Altilons, but going with the Rebels certainly was the right choice for cri and cct flexibility.

    And I'm seeing left-right symmetry also, abvgdee, we're still talking about the SR-80, right? I guess it was cheapest to build one reflector, more parts usually require more time=$ for precise assembly. I would have liked to see two separate optics stacked vertically so the lamp occupies less room on the handlebar, but I can imagine everybody including stylish designers and marketing planners also voting against it. (The MS Eagle 600 tries this, but it looks like the housing's aperture is too small for shaping a truly outstanding beam, especially using the primitive optical system they employ.)

    I would also like to learn how the SR-80's beam looks like when you put a black wand between the left and right groups of reflector segments.
    Edit: Experiments with the lens removed might easily damage the reflector surface, so I don't want to encourage them here.
    Last edited by Marcturus; 10-30-2014 at 05:20 AM.

  5. #155

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Dear business partner, dear customer,

    On March 31, 2014, Philips will permanently discontinue its line of LED BikeLights. This includes the sale of the products belonging to the Philips LED Saferide®, Philips LED Activeride® and Philips LED RearLight product lines. All products and accessories will be retired from the market.

    After that date, the products will be no longer for sale, and orders will no longer be accepted. We will continue to provide aftersales and support services for the products that have been sold in the last years, according to the terms and conditions that you may expect from a Philips solution.

    We strongly suggest that you liaise with your local sales partner, to discuss a last-buy option accommodating your business’ needs.

    Should you have additional questions, we encourage you to learn more about the details through your direct customer contact.

    We sincerely appreciate your support and regret any inconvenience this necessary action causes you.


    Does anyone know where this originated. It's 11/1/14, and thre's still no mention on their website(or google search) as to this message.
    Last edited by LANDDNL; 11-02-2014 at 02:55 AM.

  6. #156
    Flashaholic Marcturus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Quote Originally Posted by LANDDNL View Post
    Dear business partner, dear customer,
    On March 31, 2014, Philips will permanently discontinue its line of LED BikeLights.
    (...)

    Does anyone know where this originated. It's 11/1/14, and thre's still no mention on their website(or google search) as to this message.
    Don't you think that publishing it widely would have hampered selling off the remaining stock?
    Last edited by Marcturus; 11-02-2014 at 07:08 AM.

  7. #157

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcturus View Post
    Don't you think that publishing it widely would have hampered selling off the remaining stock?
    Where did you obtain this information about Philips getting out of the bicycle lighting business?

  8. #158
    Flashaholic Marcturus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Something must be wrong with your search engine, I see plenty of hits. Even our dearly missed swhs could only trace the earliest appearance to someone posting it on the mtb-news forum, apparently a high-snr contributor who wisely chose not to disclose his source.

    There were more reasons and indicators to take this at face value instantly, and as swhs mentioned, there were some signs Philips wasn't fully determined to carry on.

    http://www.tweewieler.nl/Onderdelen-...trie-1515350W/
    EOD.
    Last edited by Marcturus; 11-03-2014 at 08:51 AM.

  9. #159

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    OK, yes, I meant the SR80 (I don't know much about various available lights).

    I meant "big" right-left asymetry, one that justifies calling it two-LEDs-two-beams headlight. There must be minor asymetry - because StVZO actually requires it.

    more parts usually require more time=$ for precise assembly
    Yes, I now also think it's the 90-10 principle that was decisive factor (not the asymmetry). If they can do 90% of the job (make usable beam pattern) with 10% of efforts, then why spend much more efforts to achieve additional 10% that most people won't really need..

    I was mainly interested in the "reasons". Having thought about it.. I think I understand.. and it comforts me. However, since the reasons are more marketing/financial - as it looks - I'm not very interested anymore. (I think it's appropriate here to remember Philips selling their brand name to help sell toys..)

    The Eagle 600 - thanks, I didn't know. This shows there's a demand for specialized, road-ahead illumination lenses (like Supernova's Terraflux) - right now. So Ledil/Carclo should start making them very soon - good

    A (thin) *mirror* wall placed at center could be a test for right-left symmetry. If there's one (which is not quite the case - StVZO), the mirror won't change the pattern - seems obvious..

    As to black wall, I don't expect anything simple, and no conclusions from such test. What do you expect?

    Generally, where do artefacts come from.. there must be some textbooks on reflector designs, or at least monographies with reviews of papers.. After spending a lot of time, we'll end up re-inventing simple ideas I have (sorry, only obvious) idea - they come (only) from spacial extent of the LED.. but I'm out, I'm a total newbie..

  10. #160

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    So where do SR80's "peels" blinding artefacts come from? (I was suprized how huge and bright they really are)

    Probably they are exclusively fabricated by one LED shining onto the other's "designated" reflector part.

    How to test it: Method 1: The black wall could be used. Method 2: A laser pointer (low power for safety) can be used to shine from where the artefact appear - to figure out from which LED it comes from, "this", or "the other".

    (Someone wrote to me these two ideas few weeks ago. I partially copy-pasted the wording here. Shame on me not getting it right back then)

    Method 3: One can inspect the reflection of an LED when lamp is off (yellow), and its surrounding PCB area (white) in (each) reflector stripe. The PCB area stops with a reflector on one side of the LED, and continues white on the other. This assymetry can be seen in the mirror stripe (each), and thus one can deduce, which LED ("this", or "the other") you see at a particular angle. The reflection of the LED and PCB area is distorted and unclear, and it takes some time, but still it's possible to say with certainty which LED it is.

    Briefly, I can confirm the above assumption of the cause of the artefacts.

    The number of artefact peels equals to the number of reflector stripes (not surprisingly):





    (here the right LED, which on first photo is on left, shines on left reflector half, which on photo is on right, and creates artefacts on the left side of the beamshot)

    I'd say the black wall should not be full-height, it should be more like a fence. Its upper shape should be special, to only prevent "the other" LED from reaching "this" half's stripes. The artifacts will disappear, but I think there will be some change in the beam pattern (like less bright at the sides).

    Bottomline: 1 (shining) LED per reflector please.

    ----------

    Why the SR80 has a dark stripe "artefact" in the near field? The reflector only creates its light carpet about 2m away. The near field (before the carpet) is only created by direct (not reflected) light from LEDs. So there are 2 (obvious) reasons for that dark stripe: (1) the bigger the angle from the LED die normal - the less luminous intensity, and (2) the farther the distance to a road area - the smaller its brightness (luminance).

    Why the housing is horizontally stretched? (previously I wished it to be vertically big - for a sharper cutoff). There are (above) the lumen reason, and styling, but also - to make near field wider. Almost right at the wheel - *and* pretty wide sideways.

    (these are some of my mis-understandings I decided to share for everyone)

    ----------

    Why people call the SR80's windshield a lens? Looking thru mine at LEDs and reflector, I'd say it's perfectly flat.

    ----------

    (blabbering below, but hopefully interesting..)

    I searched for "reflector design", and found there are many books on this. It's amazing how such a primitive law as geometrical-optics mirror reflection can lead to really involved math and algorithms. To me it looks like there's no way a hobbyist can design a good-cutoff LED reflector, even if using some available (open source) ray-tracing engines (because it's an *inverse* problem), let alone from scratch.

    As of now, a search engine's top reflector-CAD company still uses only (!) point-like light sources (with a configurable angular distribution of course) in their commercial system. This brings some doubts in accuracy of reflector designs. Looking at flat (along one direction) stripes of SR80's reflector, may be it was really a rather crude design process (I doubt they solved inverse problem)..
    Last edited by abvgdee; 12-05-2014 at 04:53 AM. Reason: many edits.. last one: changed my mind on black fence affecting beam pattern

  11. #161
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    I liked my SafeRide 80 so much this year that I bought two of the last 2nd generation SafeRide 80s from Rose Bikes.

    Thank goodness they fixed the problem where you can't get it out of low-power mode in the 2nd generation. That's the main reason I bought them new ones. My 1st-gen SR80 with an external battery (see reply #131 above) wasn't very friendly to flaky battery cables because of the firmware issues (any power loss and light stays off and the low-power mode issue).

    The power-loss-off issue is still there. But they fixed the low-power mode issue, so I put 3 1.0 F super-caps inside. This will ride through any intermittent cable issues and I don't have to worry about getting stuck in low-power mode.

    Here's a summary of the differences between 1st-gen and 2nd-gen SR80:

    • You can switch back to full-power mode even after it automatically switched to low-power
    • Lower power consumption: now 0.90A/0.30A was 1.0A/0.33A
    • No change in brightness or color
    • Increased PWM frequency of low-power mode so it doesn't seem like a strobe light
    • Changed from an hex key screw to a phillips/coin-slot screw for the battery compartment
    • More subtle green/amber/red battery level indicator - the blue LED strip was rather glaring

    I like the SR80 and have gotten used to some of its oddities I noticed when I first started using it a year ago. Now that I can use it with an external battery without having to keep AAs in it as well, I'm happy.

    I haven't seen a better light. The B&M/Schmidt lights look comparable, but not particularly better. It is too bad Philips decided to drop such a good product. Maybe they can sell the product line to some other company!!
    --tom

  12. #162
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Just an update on my 2nd-gen SR80 with an external battery: This has been working fine. The super-caps work to take care of minor interruptions, and if makes it into low-power mode, the 2nd-gen can be put back in full-power mode.

    The super-caps last about 35 seconds on low.

    This is a great light, and with an external battery I can get 5 or more hours out of it!
    --tom

  13. #163

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    (just some random bit of thought.. might be interesting to some..)

    I measured the stock driver efficiency to be ~79% - high mode.

    Power at batteries can be measured easily: 4.5W (4.84V 0.93A). LED power consumption is tricky, so indirectly. With a custom linear (true DC) current-source driver: 2.185W (0.38A 5.75V), and max lux value = 62.397. Max lux value from the stock driver = 101.23. So effective LED's power on high = 2.185*101.23/62.397 = 3.5448W.

  14. #164
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Only way to measure efficiency is to measure volts/amps at LED. LED efficiency drops with current.

  15. #165

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Quote Originally Posted by HakanC View Post
    Here is a pic of the parts

    The DC-DC converter needs a (max)5V enable, I used a 4,7V zener and a resistor.


    My test setup

    The DC-DC convertor only gets warm, not hot at all.


    Finished, there is plenty of room for the electronis in the battery compartment.

    (With the light upside down)


    But there is a drawback; the light will only shine on max for 45min, then I have to disconnect the battery, reconnect again and then it will shine for another 45min, and then you will have to repeat again until the battery is drained.
    Apparently the battery monitoring circuit in the light includes a timer based on initial battery voltage.

    My next modification of the light will be to replace all of the electronics with a LFlex
    http://www.taskled.com/lflex.html
    a b2Flex would be more efficient but the higher overhead voltage for it means that I wouldn't be able to use the same battery.
    But that will take another two months or so.


    /Håkan
    SWEDEN
    Hi,

    I'm also trying to use a DC-DC converter to use the saferide 80 (2nd gen) with an external battery pack on my bike. I'm using a converter with a LM2576HVS chip. The voltage input is 16V (car battery charger to make some tests) and I set the output to 5.7V. I connected the output wires to the + and - inside the light housing. The light turns on properly but it cannot go to the high beam mode. If I press the light's button, it just turns the light on and off but only the low beam mode is used. However if I remove the cables and uses the light with the stock NiMH batteries, everything works fine and pressing the light's button will switch between the low and high beam mode.

    What am I doing wrong? Why is the high beam mode unavailable when powering the light from the external battery? Should I connect the wires differently (in the second pic above, + is connected to the lower rightmost pin and - to the lower leftmost pin)? Any help appreciated. Thanks!
    Last edited by kilou; 07-17-2015 at 01:43 PM.

  16. #166

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Does anyone know where to find the Philips handlebar bracket?


    There's a couple of Busch & Muller Ixon brackets that look similar.


    Has anyone tried using those?

  17. #167
    Flashaholic angerdan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    They don't fit each other.

    I would try to get hands on one at eBay.

  18. #168

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    My SR80 modification.

    Back to the blinding artifacts - I recently installed the wall (black, between the halves):
    (hi-res)

    Color-zoomed-in (to better see artifacts) original vs. wall:



    Main pattern is almost same, became about 2.6% narrower (I expected worse):
    (hi-res)
    (hi-res)
    (you can't determine the "2.6%" from these images; camera beamshots visualized with my octave scripts)

    I decided against replacing stock LEDs.

    Another thing I did - I installed my own driver (since I fried original one; with my own "Cantor" firmware), powered by 3x 18650:
    (hi-res)
    (hi-res)


    Finally I did it!
    Last edited by abvgdee; 12-24-2015 at 01:04 PM. Reason: images re-generated to remove image processing artifacts

  19. #169
    Flashaholic* Steve K's Avatar
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    18650's fit? I don't use them for anything, so I have no experience with them. That's got to improve the run time quite a bit, doesn't it?

    I'm assuming that they are wired in parallel. How does the charging work out?

    Nice to have a project work out well. Congrats!

  20. #170

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Probably. I don't really care about runtime. (what I do care about - unlike other people, is SR's near field.. really hate it)

    Yes, parallel. I put my charge connector where the original was (USB) - at the back. Any Li-Ion charger will do the job (I use one from a bike light, 1A), after you solder appropriate connector on its cable. Cells should be similar.

    It was pretty easy and fast actually, 5 full days may be. All needed things were done in the past, and mechanically - glue was my best friend. "Grit and spit, and spit, a lot of spit, and grit, and sticktoiteveness" (Madagascar2)

  21. #171
    Flashaholic angerdan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Quote Originally Posted by abvgdee View Post
    My SR80 modification.
    I installed my own driver (since I fried original one; with my own "Cantor" firmware), powered by 3x 18650:
    Finally I did it!
    Any updates on your mod?
    How about weather resistance, charging, weight difference...?

  22. #172

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Hardwarely - no changes, nowhere. Weather - if you mean buttons hole cover - it's fully rain-proof. Charging - old.

    Weight, and center of gravity difference - small enough. AFAIR, it was tilting down when riding on bumps about same as the original. A piece of flat rubber glued on the handlebar makes this tilting almost-never happening.

    Sorry, not much to add - been built to last long!

    Raindrops won't get inside - nohow. So, when raining - I have no objection. Contrariwise!
    Last edited by abvgdee; 11-20-2016 at 04:45 AM. Reason: Contrariwise! :)

  23. #173
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Spanninga have bought the rights to the Philips bike lights, and there are now updated versions in production.
    http://www.spanninga.com/

    The Philips Saferide is now the Spannings Axendo, coming in 4 versions: 80 lux e-bike; 60 lux dynamo; 60 lux li-ion, USB charged; and 40 lux li-ion USB-charged, with reflector.

    The Philips Lumiring rear dynamo light is now the Spanninga Elips. There's also a 2xAAA battery version.

  24. #174

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Has anyone found a good online source for Spanninga ? I'm in Australia & there doesn't seem to be any dealers outside Europe & the US

  25. #175
    Flashaholic angerdan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    No, but you could try to aks some german shops if they would ship it to australia.
    Or if some german members from this forum would put it on eBay with international shipping

  26. #176

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Quote Originally Posted by find_bruce View Post
    Has anyone found a good online source for Spanninga ? I'm in Australia & there doesn't seem to be any dealers outside Europe & the US
    This is great news isn't it! I've been using the Saferide 60s for several years and they are easily the match for the (older) SON lights I also have. Hollandbikeshop list all of the Axendo lights, although they seem to be out of stock at present. Which of course suggests that production is still gearing up to meet a healthy level of demand - a good thing I think! I expect Spanninga's first priority will be all of the local bike shops they distribute to before they get onto the online market. I'd just monitor Hollandbikeshop and other shops such as Bike24 and bike components.de until they become available. Dutchbikebits too. All used to stock the Phillips lights so I'd guess they'll be keen to carry the Axendo as well.

    Sam.

  27. #177

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Quote Originally Posted by samsavvas View Post
    ...Hollandbikeshop list all of the Axendo lights, although they seem to be out of stock at present....
    Actually I was wrong. hollandbikeshop have the Axendo-40 & 60 series in stock:
    Xdo - without stand light
    Xdas - with stand light
    Xe - for ebike (max 36v).

    80 series is out of stock (I can see why!)

    Post cost to Australia seemed a bit steep - about Au$50 for either 1 or 2 lights. But given the relatively cheap cost of the lights themselves this may still be a reasonable outlay!

    Sam.

  28. #178

    Default Re: Philips LED bike light

    Rather excited today. I have received an Axendo 60 Xe and matching tail light from Holland Bike Shop in the Netherlands. I'm not sure if it has turned out to be the best deal for this light, but I was impatient and it's what I went with. Anyway, I'm please!

    It's an e-bike light destined for the ongoing refurbishment project for my old Bafang BBS-powered Kemper Filibus cargo bike. Although I haven't yet connected it up I can tell you that the Axendo is small - not tiny, but certainly much smaller than the Phillips Saferide dynamo light, even though it appears to use the same reflector and front window profile. If you've held the rather bulky B&M Luxos, we're talking about something of similar size. The case is made from what seems to be die-cast alloy and feels pretty solid.

    Being an e-bike light there's no switch and only two recessed & polarised spade connectors underneath - no dangling wires. It used what appears to be the same 'pressed wire' bracket that the Phillips came with.

    I'll post some pics on Flickr shortly. It will be interesting to see if the dynamo versions of this light are the same size (illustrations on the packaging suggest that might be)! If so, and if it performs as well or even better than the old Saferide, then - given the price point - I think Spanninga will have a winner!

    Sam.
    Last edited by samsavvas; 06-04-2017 at 09:01 PM.

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