Surefire 6PN: big letdown (poor QC?)

Well, tried out my Surefire 6PN (for those unaware, that's Surefire-factory's pressure-certified [to 33m] model) for the first time on a dive in Lanai (Hawaii) today....and instead of bright light underwater, I got a dime orange glow, then fade-to-nothing...

When I got to the surface, after the 1 hr. 10 min. dive (to a max depth of 45 feet) through caverns where I really could've used a functional 6PN, I discovered water had leaked in the tailcap, and "ruptured" (for lack of a better word) the momentary-on switch.

"What a piece of #$@#!," I whispered to myself. When I collected myself and got over the initial disappointment, I realized even Surefire can ship out lemons. And unfortunately, I didn't have any facility to test the pressure-certification prior to an actual (and expensive) dive. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

But, I'm here in Hawaii for 1 more week (with three more two-tank dives), and will be calling Surefire to see what they can do to expedite me an exchange unit. I'm going to put Surefire's "World Class" customer service to the test.

Anyway, just wanted to share my experience (and disappointment) with this particular Surefire 6PN unit.

I think you shouldn't use any light of that type for diving. Use a real dive light from Tek-Tite or UKE. Tek-Tite's distinction between their "waterproof" lights and their actual dive lights is the dive lights have two O-rings. Any water that gets past the first ring then has to get past the second, and will be at much lower pressure.

If you want a small 2L dive light, I like the UKE 2L, though it's not as bright as your 6PN.

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paulr said:
I think you shouldn't use any light of that type for diving. Use a real dive light from Tek-Tite or UKE. Tek-Tite's distinction between their "waterproof" lights and their actual dive lights is the dive lights have two O-rings. Any water that gets past the first ring then has to get past the second, and will be at much lower pressure.

If you want a small 2L dive light, I like the UKE 2L, though it's not as bright as your 6PN.

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Sure, but where's the fun in that? The goal is to use one of my beloved Surefires while diving--where its form factor/light quality/brightness combination is tough to equal (especially with a P61 bulb).

A non-defective 6PN should've handled my diving chores without any problems (if I'm not mistaken, then "N" is for Navy for chrissakes).

sure sounds like poor qc, luckily it wasn't in the hands of a Navy member thats counting on the surefire for light.

Ron

Did you turn it on and leave it on, prior to entering the water? Did you turn it off or rotate the tail underwater?

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that the tail/momentary cannot be activated after entering water.

what does SureFire say?

GregR

Does it have a Lexan lens or is it a Pyrex lens?

if it has a lock-out tailcap, it shouldn't leak even when activated underwater. probably a defective tailcap.

pahl: most probably lexan.

I doubt any Operator would take kit into action without having put it though it's paces. And would not rely on one bit of kit alone.

Having said that, I look forward to reading about your successful dealings with SureFire's customer service because it doesn't sound like what happened to you should have happened.

The TailCap end of the body should be double o-ring sealed and there is another o-ring that isolates the switch button from the internal walls of the body.

This allows you to use the TailCap underwater (lockout, momentary and constant-on). The deepest I've done this with non-certified SureFires is about 5 metres I believe.

Al

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Size15s said:
I doubt any Operator would take kit into action without having put it though it's paces. And would not rely on one bit of kit alone.

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Yeah, only wannabe-operators like myself /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif would dive with untested equipment. LOL!

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Having said that, I look forward to reading about your successful dealings with SureFire's customer service because it doesn't sound like what happened to you should have happened.

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I thought much the same. I mean its supposed to be water-resistant to 33 meters, and I only dived to about half of that depth.

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The TailCap end of the body should be double o-ring sealed and there is another o-ring that isolates the switch button from the internal walls of the body.

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Aha! My TailCap is protected by only one o-ring. Possible culprit? I can't tell how the momentary-on switch is protected, and I can't tell if the "rupturing" was caused by the leak, or the corrosive muck that occurred upon saltwater-meeting-lithiums.

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This allows you to use the TailCap underwater (lockout, momentary and constant-on). The deepest I've done this with non-certified SureFires is about 5 metres I believe.

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That's what I was hoping. But for the first dive I only used the twist-on feature--being afraid to use the momentary-on switch.

Question: Should I let Surefire customer service know this is being followed by CPF members? I kinda loathe to play the "people-are-watching" card, but on the other hand it lets them know this is a chance for them to make some positive PR.

Does SF certify that their lights will operate underwater? I thought I read somewhere that their certification is so military operators can saftely carry or transport their lights through water to their destination. The N certification doesn't make it a dive light.

I'll see if I can find that thread.

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guncollector said:
Question: Should I let Surefire customer service know this is being followed by CPF members? I kinda loathe to play the "people-are-watching" card, but on the other hand it lets them know this is a chance for them to make some positive PR.

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I would say no. Letting them know they are being watched will change their behavior. Depending on how you tell them, the individual you speak with may take offense as well.

Okay, heard back from Surefire.

Here's the resolution, and IMO there's good news/bad news.

Bad news first: Surefire will not directly "advance exchange" the unit (i.e. ship me the replacement unit first, taking a deposit on my CC, and reimbursing the deposit when they receive my defective unit). They claim because I bought it from one of their distributors (Strategos Intl), they cannot vouch for "what happened to the 6PN" while with the vendor. This was disappointing because I explained to them the unit was drop-shipped from Surefire directly to me!.

Good news: Dorothy is shipping out a double-tested 6PN overnight to my rental condo today, to arrive tomorrow, in time for my Friday cavern dive--but I have to pay for it (as if buying a new one). This, in an of itself, is an accommodation as the 6PN's are in tight supply. More importantly it will salvage my upcoming dive trips.

So, I'll end up probably sending my defective 6PN in for repair, and then have 2 (one for the wife, one for me).

BTW, the 6PN's are supposed to be fully operational to their rated water-resistance (33m).

Overall, I'd say the service was "Very Good" (with high marks for prompt replies and allocating a tight-supply model), but certainly not "World Class".

Ron:

What would qualify as World Class?

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guncollector said:
Surefire will not directly "advance exchange" the unit (i.e. ship me the replacement unit first, taking a deposit on my CC, and reimbursing the deposit when they receive my defective unit).

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I think if Surefire would have done that, it would be "World Class".

Thanks for the update.

I'm interested to know whether the 6PN is meant to have double o-rings or not. Dan @TW should know I believe.
I'm also interested to know what went wrong with you unit.

Please keep us posted and enjoy the rest of your trip!

Al

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FlashlightOCD said:
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guncollector said:
Surefire will not directly "advance exchange" the unit (i.e. ship me the replacement unit first, taking a deposit on my CC, and reimbursing the deposit when they receive my defective unit).

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I think if Surefire would have done that, it would be "World Class".

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To answer Blikbok's questions: Ditto to FlashlightOCD's opinion, plus picking up the overnight shipping--that would be the equivalent of "World Class" customer service.

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guncollector said:
...for the first dive I only used the twist-on feature--being afraid to use the momentary-on switch...


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That caught my attention. If the LOTC had been initially unscrewed far enough and then reengaged while submerged that may have provided an opportunity for water to breech the seal.

Brightnorm

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brightnorm said:
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guncollector said:
...for the first dive I only used the twist-on feature--being afraid to use the momentary-on switch...


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That caught my attention. If the LOTC had been initially unscrewed far enough and then reengaged while submerged that may have provided an opportunity for water to breech the seal.


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Actually, I anticipated that problem.

So, I dove in with the constant-on twist set just about 1/4-turn past deactivation. By the time I submerged to about 45 feet, about 10 minutes or so later, a 1/4-turn in the activation direction produced only a dim orange glow, then as mentioned before nothing.

I suppose that the leak had already occurred at that point, and was already shorting out the circuit.

We'll have to see what Surefire eventually indicates, if they can determine at all, what the failure was.

Would it be better if the tailcap was screwed in all the way and the light was turned on and off by turning the bezel? That seems like it would provide the most waterproof method.

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FoxMulder said:
Would it be better if the tailcap was screwed in all the way and the light was turned on and off by turning the bezel? That seems like it would provide the most waterproof method.

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Fox, that might work, but I'd be afraid to try it.

Y'know, the box my 6PN came in is clearly marked "6PN" on the end label, but inside were only the generic 6P instructions. My point being that there were no separate, 6PN-specific instructions.

This combined with SF Techs indicating the 6PN should be "fully functional" to its rated water-resistant depth and absence of explicit underwater-operational instructions, to me indicates that it should function in the "normal" manner and retain its water-resistance through such usage.