V3 Regulated Triple Discussion Thread

[Kestrel]

Wow, I haven't seen a lineup like that posted before - a CPF first.

[nfetterly]

Wow, I haven't seen a lineup like that posted before - a CPF first.

Thanks! I just wish I could have taken the picture outside - and if I had crenulated bezels on all of them it would have been easier to line them up. In general I think the photos came out pretty well.

[badtziscool]

What's the bin and tint for the XPG used in the warm version. When I first fired it up I thought it was the PERFECT tint. If I can have every led that color, I would be a happy man.

EDIT: I found a part of my answer. The tint is 4C. But is the XPG still an R5?

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...2&postcount=26

[ElectronGuru]

The tint is 4C. But is the XPG still an R5?

Good question. R5 is a brightness rating. The phosphors used to convert brightness into color (needed to create neutral), reduce output and rating:

Triple Cools are R5/1C or R5/1T (non selectable)

Triple Neutrals are R4/4C

Were an R5/4C available, there would be little advantage to buying cool, and so little reason to produce them.

[Kestrel]

Has anyone measured the tailcap current for each of the three modes (H/M/L) for the multimode V3 w/ 2x LiIons yet?

[ElectronGuru]

Thought this might be useful to share:


Q) Is the Zero Rez upgrade beneficial for V3 Triple operation


A) A good way to think of electricity and wires is like water and pipes. Volts is the size of the pipe, amps is the pressure the water is under, and watts is how much water is actually getting moved to the other end.

So the LED(s) need a certain amount of watts/water. If you lower the volts by running from a single cell (smaller pipe), the only way to deliver the same amount of energy (watts/water) is by boosting the pressure/amps (water goes faster). But if you don't upgrade the pipes, they can't handle the extra pressure. So to with springs and switches. Lower the voltages and they either slow down the current or burst in the process.

The Zero Rez upgrade is designed for low voltage, high amperage setups, particularly single battery direct drive setups, like the V2 Triple or many SST configurations. The V3 Triple is high voltage (larger pipe) and regulated. It is does not need the high pressure capability of the ZR. The McClicky will provide as much power as the V3 needs to run full output.

[kellyglanzer]

Thought this might be useful to share:


Q) Is the Zero Rez upgrade beneficial for V3 Triple operation


A) A good way to think of electricity and wires is like water and pipes. Volts is the size of the pipe, amps is the pressure the water is under, and watts is how much water is actually getting moved to the other end.

So the LED(s) need a certain amount of watts/water. If you lower the volts by running from a single cell (smaller pipe), the only way to deliver the same amount of energy (watts/water) is by boosting the pressure/amps (water goes faster). But if you don't upgrade the pipes, they can't handle the extra pressure. So to with springs and switches. Lower the voltages and they either slow down the current or burst in the process.

The Zero Rez upgrade is designed for low voltage, high amperage setups, particularly single battery direct drive setups, like the V2 Triple or many SST configurations. The V3 Triple is high voltage (larger pipe) and regulated. It is does not need the high pressure capability of the ZR. The McClicky will provide as much power as the V3 needs to run full output.

That was very helpful for me. thank-you

[run4jc]

That was very helpful for me. thank-you

+1...good stuff....and makes perfect sense!

[9volt]

+1, thanks.

[Troop#26]

Thought this might be useful to share:


Q) Is the Zero Rez upgrade beneficial for V3 Triple operation


A) A good way to think of electricity and wires is like water and pipes. Volts is the size of the pipe, amps is the pressure the water is under, and watts is how much water is actually getting moved to the other end.

So the LED(s) need a certain amount of watts/water. If you lower the volts by running from a single cell (smaller pipe), the only way to deliver the same amount of energy (watts/water) is by boosting the pressure/amps (water goes faster). But if you don't upgrade the pipes, they can't handle the extra pressure. So to with springs and switches. Lower the voltages and they either slow down the current or burst in the process.

The Zero Rez upgrade is designed for low voltage, high amperage setups, particularly single battery direct drive setups, like the V2 Triple or many SST configurations. The V3 Triple is high voltage (larger pipe) and regulated. It is does not need the high pressure capability of the ZR. The McClicky will provide as much power as the V3 needs to run full output.

Fantastic information as usual. My question then becomes the following Dan:

Is there any advantage to running the ZR Mod with a V3 Tripple and a 18650 cell in a 2 cell host like the 6P?

Im guessing not as the unit does not switch into Direct Drive below say 4.5 volts.

This would be an interesting thing to consider in the future as you would cover 6P or similar design users with DD units for pocket rockets at 4.2 volts and below and 9P or similar design users with regulated output for those who want to use 2X18500.

I digress, with one 18650 to the V3 you are not delivering the same voltage or current hence the dimmer output (less watts). Im guessing there is something in the regulation circuit that will only allow it to draw "X" amps even at 4.2 volts (obviously lower under load, voltage stated just for argument sakes) and that is why we get the dimmer output as opposed to at 8.4 argumentative volts. That is to say it will draw 4A at 8.4 volts or 4A at 4.2 volts?

Sorry for the long-wided-ness, just trying to understand all this stuff!

Regards,

Stephen

[PoliceScannerMan]

I just wanna say I'm very pleased with mine, the flashes between modes arent very noticeable.

[mknewman]

If you are having contact problems like I did with my V1 triple you might want to try some of my Copper Tape, details are in the thread link in my signature. One wrap was enough to make contact at the bottom of the light to the body of my Solarforce, and it provides excellent conductivity.

[Kestrel]

Impressions of the multimode unit:

Well, I just got back from a 3-day camping trip and let me say that my V3 multimode 'neutral' was the cat's meow in my SF C3.

• Regarding the high mode: Completely crushed all other lights of course. I didn't really use the 'high' except for a 'wow' test. It did feel nice to have that level of output available at my side, though.
• Medium mode (~180 lumens or so): With regards to actual elapsed usage time, this ended up being the most useful mode. Although we had a gas lantern for general illumination, I set up my SF C3 so that it would hang down from the overhead canopy, illuminating the food preparation area sort of like a halogen reading light - not really a tight spot, not really a flood beam either - perfect. The sidespill from the light itself wasn't wide enough to get in our eyes while we were working on the food prep. And runtime was of zero concern to me, the runtime for this mode on 2x 18500 is amazing (~8-10 hrs?) and far superior to other single-emitter units with comparable output. I could keep it running for hours and hours in this manner without having to worry about running the cells down so that it wouldn't be useful for other (later) tasks as necessary.
• Low mode (~40 lumens or so?): I didn't end up using this mode at all - when I needed relatively low levels of illumination, I found that my LD01, SF T1A, and SF L1 were completely satisfactory and much handier than the considerably larger SF C3. Nice to have it of course - in the event of a survival situation, this light would still be running from its single set of 18500's when all my other lights would be completely dead - including their battery changes. (I think that the runtime estimate on 'low' is something like ~50-60 hrs on 2x18500?)

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And with regards to the 'neutral' tint: very very nice for outdoor duty. Illuminating the wild chantrelle mushrooms we had just picked really emphasized their natural colors while they were sautéing. I did a few A/B comparisons on the mushrooms using my LD01 Q5 against this unit and it wasn't even close.

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A fantastic all-around drop-in for general outdoor use.

[Bladedude]

Can somebody give me an approx runtime to 50% a neutral triple will run on the medium setting with one 18650 2600mah and also 1 IMR 18650 1600mah.

I have the single mode neutral triple and love it!I am thinking of getting a 3 mode so i could use the medium setting most of the time and high sparingly. Im guessing medium setting is 200 lumens?

Much apprecitated

[PoliceScannerMan]

This is no help for Medium, but I got 22 minutes off a IMR 18650 on high, then it started a slow strobe. The light was hot, but not too hot to handle.

[riccardo]

For the future, please consider to design the new 3-mode to switch to next mode only if switched off than on in no more than a second.

There are no flashahoolics around that won't be able to archive such speed while most of them will be annoyed if accidentally switching to next mode.

Fix also the pre-flash issue and it will be perfect!!

[easilyled]

ElectronGuru, you may have noticed that Mac has produced a run of TRI-EDCs which use the triple-XPG board designed by luxrc.

Mac has advocated the use of either a single IMR123 or an Ultrafire 18350 (which is an extra thick rechargeable 123 with a 1200mah capacity).

This got me thinking that if Mac considers the 18350s suitable for use in his TRI-EDC, would 2 of them also be ok for use in a 6P/C2/Z2 (bored for a 18650) with the Oveready Triple Drop-ins?

This way you could have a much longer runtime than with 2 IMR123s and also operate the dropin at a higher voltage to keep it in regulation.

[ElectronGuru]

Is there any advantage to running the ZR Mod with a V3 Tripple and a 18650 cell in a 2 cell host like the 6P?

Continuing the plumbing analogy, the regulator in the Triple is a like pressure washer plugged into a garden faucet. It has minimum voltage requirements (pipe size), but once you have that, a world of easy opens up. A pressure washer can 'pull' water past a kink in the hose, so to can the regulator pull power past a spring or less efficient path. The advantages of the Zero Rez do not come into play.

For the future, please consider to design the new 3-mode to switch to next mode only if switched off than on in no more than a second.

Noted

This got me thinking that if Mac considers the 18350s suitable for use in his TRI-EDC, would 2 of them also be ok for use in a 6P/C2/Z2 (bored for a 18650) with the Oveready Triple Drop-ins?

Thanks for the note.

We love experimenting with new designs, ideas, and products. But when it comes to batteries we ship to others, we take off our risk taking hat and put on our safety hat.

In theory, this is the perfect size for us, for a variety of reasons. But this brand new size is so far only offered by a few 'off brands'. Preliminary assessment shows, for example, the weight (28 grams) is to heavy for an IMR of that size. May mean something, may not. But we're waiting for more certainty.

Strictly speaking, they're as suitable but its not certain how suitable.

[steveG]

Any chance that a lower-output, primary(CR123A)-friendly version of this ever be offered?

[ElectronGuru]

Any chance that a lower-output, primary(CR123A)-friendly version of this ever be offered?

Its a question of compromises.

The standard version is calibrated to feed the maximum possible power to the LEDs. This level (~3 amps) is more than primaries are able to safely provide (like double). It would be a simple matter to calibrate to a maximum power level within the safe operating limit of primaries, but with less power comes less output, considerably less than the standard version. The result would still be brighter than a single LED setup, but more on par with a quad die setup or an SST at 3 amps.

But all the parts would still be the same. So the question is, would you be willing to pay 2x a single LED setup for a drop in that only provides 2x the output of a single LED setup (vs 3-4x now)?

[run4jc]

This is just one awesome product. Simply awesome. I invite you to visit this short mini-review here.

Oveready!

[steveG]

Its a question of compromises.

The standard version is calibrated to feed the maximum possible power to the LEDs. This level (~3 amps) is more than primaries are able to safely provide (like double). It would be a simple matter to calibrate to a maximum power level within the safe operating limit of primaries, but with less power comes less output, considerably less than the standard version. The result would still be brighter than a single LED setup, but more on par with a quad die setup or an SST at 3 amps.

Good points.

But all the parts would still be the same. So the question is, would you be willing to pay 2x a single LED setup for a drop in that only provides 2x the output of a single LED setup (vs 3-4x now)?

Good question. So around 500 OTF Lumens?

[tandem]

The only thing is that I'd rather have would be a somewhat higher 'medium', ~200 lumens for ~10 hours (2x18500) is somewhat less useful for me than ~350 lumens for ~5 hours, for example. That hotspot is pretty wide and the ~200 lumen medium is a little thin for all that area IMO.

+1 on that. I'm keen on getting a Triple three-mode when they are again available and intend that the medium mode would be the most-used, usually in constant-on fashion for several hours at a time. I am a little concerned the V3 output ~180 lumen may not end up develop quite enough lux needed for my purpose. Would love to see medium up higher at the expense of some runtime.

Just throwing another log on the fire of consensus.

[Kestrel]

[...] Would love to see medium up higher at the expense of some runtime.

Has anyone done a runtime test with 2x 18500 on 'medium' yet? My ~10 hour figure was a total guess.

(Or 'high' on new cells for that matter - I'm getting ~55-60 minutes, but my AW 18500's are a little old ...)

[easilyled]

......

Thanks for the note.

We love experimenting with new designs, ideas, and products. But when it comes to batteries we ship to others, we take off our risk taking hat and put on our safety hat.

In theory, this is the perfect size for us, for a variety of reasons. But this brand new size is so far only offered by a few 'off brands'. Preliminary assessment shows, for example, the weight (28 grams) is to heavy for an IMR of that size. May mean something, may not. But we're waiting for more certainty.

Strictly speaking, they're as suitable but its not certain how suitable.

This answer was in relation to my query about using 2 Ultrafire 18350 (1200ma) cells in a C2 with the Oveready triple drop-in.

I don't think that they are IMR batteries, just li-ion rechargeable cells that have a considerably higher capacity than standard R123 li-ions because they're much wider and don't have the protection PCB taking up space either (they're unprotected)

So, my question is, should I be a guinea pig and try out 2 18350 1200mahs in the C2 (bored for 18650) that will be arriving soon?

These cells seem to be halfway between standard RCR123s and 18500s in terms of capacity, so if 2 18500s work ok, then maybe these would too?

[Moddoo]

I'll jump in here tomorrow and answer several questions guys.

Been wrapped up in another project lately.

-Tom

[stoli67]

I would be good if more of the tri- LEDs were available!

[tandem]

+1 on that... I'd love to get 2 of them, tomorrow even, but the multi-level versions are what I am really after. I know, I know, no P60 from Moddoo will ship before its time.

(thinking of a certain wine commercial there)

[John N]

Ugh. I just wrote a hugely long post and it was eaten.

OK, the super short version:

1) Is it really not OK to use 3x123A cells? I can understand that 2x123 would be asking for trouble, but SF uses the P91 in 3x123a configurations which draws almost 2.5A. Obviously it is important to use cells that can handle high draw applications.

2) What runtime might we expect with 3x123A cells?

3) What runtime might we expect with 2x 1800mah 17670 cells?

Thanks!

-john

[John N]

Supporting information.

Current vs. voltage:

Here is a shot of the Current vs Voltage for these units.

Sample 123a under various loads:

Current draw for P91 lamp assembly:

Surefire P91 2.46