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Thread: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS +

  1. #91

    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Great review!

    Quote Originally Posted by selfbuilt View Post
    Frankly, PWM isn't really an issue if the freq is high enough. It is pretty much undetectable in kHz range, and typically only enters your perception threshold somewhere <1kHz. Under ~200 Hz or so is very noticeable for those who are sensitive to it. You will see it as a corner-of-your-eye "flicker" (or more accurately, latent "ghost" images during your eye saccades).
    I'm not sure why, but I'm extra sensitive when it comes to that flicker. I can definitely tell if PWM is in use, even with little movements. Heck, I don't even like being under fluorescent lights for too long, makes me nauseous.

  2. #92

    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Quote Originally Posted by jason978 View Post
    it's up for preorder now, shipping est is oct 23
    Thanks for the information, but it's a "no go" for me. What's the difference between 200lm and 140lm? Very little, to the eyes. In other words, I think the 200lm is unnecessary. They already have a great mode setup with the SC50+. Why did they have to change it? Why? Why? Why?
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  3. #93

    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    200lms from a AA is nice to have, and a significant factor in all the buzz around the new Zebralight lights. I think of it like this: 200lms for 0.9hrs is included for the prestige; 140lms for 2hrs is there as a good compromise between runtime and output.

  4. #94

    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Talking about the beam on this little light, it sounds like this light has a big hotspot with alot of spill. But looking at the lux numbers would make you think it might be a little throwy. Which is it, i cannot really tell from the whitewall shots.

  5. #95

    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Quote Originally Posted by bigfish5 View Post
    Talking about the beam on this little light, it sounds like this light has a big hotspot with alot of spill. But looking at the lux numbers would make you think it might be a little throwy. Which is it, i cannot really tell from the whitewall shots.
    There are some great beam shots of the H51 here (same light as the SC51 but with an angled head).

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...=283934&page=8
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  6. #96
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    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Can you comment on why they removed 14500 support (per their website) on the SC51? Your testing sample seemed to manage the two battery types just fine according to your charts. They must have some reason.
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  7. #97
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    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Quote Originally Posted by Lite_me View Post
    Can you comment on why they removed 14500 support (per their website) on the SC51? Your testing sample seemed to manage the two battery types just fine according to your charts. They must have some reason.
    The original commentary during development was the the driver they were using to achieve the high output & long run times was achieved by limiting the voltage range.

    If memory serves me the max voltage was 2.1V so that would exclude 14500's for sure.
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  8. #98
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    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Quote Originally Posted by Lite_me View Post
    Can you comment on why they removed 14500 support (per their website) on the SC51? Your testing sample seemed to manage the two battery types just fine according to your charts. They must have some reason.
    Response to my question is this: "We are somewhat concerned with safety of using off-brand 14500 batteries."

  9. #99

    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Quote Originally Posted by mhphoto View Post
    I'm not sure why, but I'm extra sensitive when it comes to that flicker. I can definitely tell if PWM is in use, even with little movements. Heck, I don't even like being under fluorescent lights for too long, makes me nauseous.
    I find some fluorescent lights better than others - some don't bother me, and some have obvious 60Hz flicker (may have more do with the ballast?). So I also avoid lights with visible PWM.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
    What's the difference between 200lm and 140lm? Very little, to the eyes. In other words, I think the 200lm is unnecessary. They already have a great mode setup with the SC50+. Why did they have to change it? Why? Why? Why?
    I agree that the difference between 140lm and 200lm is not that great. Personally, I'm glad to have the lower Hi mode, as it makes a great battery runtime saver.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigfish5 View Post
    Talking about the beam on this little light, it sounds like this light has a big hotspot with alot of spill. But looking at the lux numbers would make you think it might be a little throwy. Which is it, i cannot really tell from the whitewall shots.
    Quote Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
    There are some great beam shots of the H51 here (same light as the SC51 but with an angled head).
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...=283934&page=8
    Thanks for the link - the H51 should look the same as the SC51.

    I wouldn't really call this light throwy relative to other lights. As for the lux numbers, you have to keep in mind that the overall output of the SC51 is much higher than the other lights. If the other lights were matched for output level, the SC51 would likely be below average for throw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lite_me View Post
    Can you comment on why they removed 14500 support (per their website) on the SC51? Your testing sample seemed to manage the two battery types just fine according to your charts. They must have some reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by FroggyTaco View Post
    The original commentary during development was the the driver they were using to achieve the high output & long run times was achieved by limiting the voltage range.
    Quote Originally Posted by SloNicK View Post
    Response to my question is this: "We are somewhat concerned with safety of using off-brand 14500 batteries."
    I really don't know - except to say that if the driver were limited in voltage range, then the 14500 runs here would likely have fried it.

    There are a number of examples where makers choose to be conservative and not officially support 14500 (even if the driver can handle the voltage). That may be the case here. I honestly don't know.

    P.S.: SloNick.
    Last edited by selfbuilt; 09-28-2010 at 09:32 AM.
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  10. #100
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    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    As of right now the 2 most intriguing lights IMO are the SC51 and the Jetbeam RRT-0. I must say that I am really really leaning toward the SC51 now.

    Is the headband a regular accessory with this light or was that a fluke? I mean I know that the SC50W had the band, but was that just a mistake in shipping?
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  11. #101
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    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Recently bought a SC50+, this is my EDC, very pleased. Wrote a little review here. Read about the imminent appearance of SC51 and would like to order, but was very disappointed with the lack of support 14500.
    Perhaps this is due to the fact that the scheme improve the driver is more efficient in this case, perhaps it is a commercial step manufacturer.
    Maybe we are somehow able to influence the manufacturer? ))

  12. #102
    Flashaholic* Dan FO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    My SC50+ is rated at 193 lumens on a 14500 and the SC51 is rated at 200 with an AA BUT I think the XP-E in the SC50+ will throw better.

    http://www.zebralight.com/SC50-Flash...93Lm_p_24.html

    I think I will keep the +, I don't think I will miss those 7 lumens.

  13. #103
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    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    I feel the same way about the SC50w+. I already am and like using Li-ion rechargeables anyway, so the fact the SC51 performs a tiny bit better on NiMH cells than the SC50 on Li-ion, while certainly a great achievement, is not especially meaningful to me.

    And I really like those no visible PWM low modes on the SC50/SC50w+.

    Plus, after getting accustomed to using the bigger reflectored P60 hosts with bright lamp modules for outdoors, I now find all the small lights to be somewhat inadequate for outdoor use.
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  14. #104

    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Selfbuilt (or anyone else who has experience with the SC51 and SC50w),

    Would you mind giving some feedback regarding the real-world difference in output between the SC50w and the SC51 using NiMH AAs? I see from your numbers that the SC51 has bit of an edge in throw, and a significant one in overall output. How perceptible are these differences to your eye?

    The reason I ask is I really want a warm tint, with some throw to complement my H501w. I'm torn between waiting for a SC51w or getting the already-available SC50w.

    Thank you for this review, and your many other contributions to the forum.

  15. #105
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    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Any plans to test the SC60? I recently bought one and I gotta say it's a great little light.

  16. #106
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    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwicrunch View Post
    Selfbuilt (or anyone else who has experience with the SC51 and SC50w),

    Would you mind giving some feedback regarding the real-world difference in output between the SC50w and the SC51 using NiMH AAs? I see from your numbers that the SC51 has bit of an edge in throw, and a significant one in overall output. How perceptible are these differences to your eye?

    The reason I ask is I really want a warm tint, with some throw to complement my H501w. I'm torn between waiting for a SC51w or getting the already-available SC50w.

    Thank you for this review, and your many other contributions to the forum.
    Comparing the high and turbo on my SC50w+ running a 14500 (107 (Max output on AA) and 169 lumens) there is a notable but not extreme increase in brightness. The difference on the 51 is going to be less, because of the higher high (Advertised as 140 on the cool version, so... 120ish on nw? Turbo's probably going to be 170-180ish.)

    Going to the other end of the range, the 51's low and medium levels seem, to me, to be better selected than on the 50. I use mine mostly on the lower settings, so that's attractive to me.

    If you don't want to run 14500s, or like the lower lows, wait for the 51w. If you're okay with 14500 cells, get the 50w now unless you also want the 51's lower levels. Or get the 50w now and sell it off when the 51w comes in.

  17. #107

    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    I was wondering, on max mode (H1) why 14500 is more capable to produce flat output rather than eneloop and energizer lithium AA ? Is it because the battery voltage or battery chemistry or both ?

  18. #108
    Flashaholic* mighty82's Avatar
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    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    The efficiency and features of this light looks extremely nice. I just had to pre-order one. It even has fine regulation on alkaline and L2's. Zebralight seems to be the best at circuit technology by far right now.

    I just hope they are telling the truth about "smoothening" the pwm so that it's not visible. I hate that flickering. Even the LD01 was too bad for me.

  19. #109
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    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Today sent a SC51. Let's see ...

  20. #110
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    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Quote Originally Posted by SloNicK View Post
    Today sent a SC51. Let's see ...
    The shipping started on last Friday.

    The second sub-level of the High (H2) is expanded to include 100Lm, 140Lm and a 4Hz strobe. Double click 6 times in High to enter the configuration mode for the H2. Further double clicks to cycle throgh the list. Short click or long click to exit.

    All sub-levels except the 100 and 0.2Lm are now current regulated. L2 PWM flickering has been reduced to a much lower level.

    These updates are also implemented in the H51.
    Last edited by ZebraLight; 10-24-2010 at 03:41 AM.
    ZEBRALIGHT.com

  21. #111
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    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    HI ZEBRALIGHT,

    it says that 14500 Li-ion batteries are not supported. Does that mean that we CAN'T use them?

  22. #112
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    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Quote Originally Posted by ZebraLight View Post
    All sub-levels except the M2 (8Lm) and L2 (0.2Lm) are now current regulated. L2 PWM flickering has been reduced to a much lower level.

    These updates are also implemented in the H51.

    Good news

    I kick myself for purchasing the H51 prior to these changes though :-( Oh well still an excellent light :-)
    New CPF ruins all my fun :-(

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  23. #113
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    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Quote Originally Posted by jason978 View Post
    HI ZEBRALIGHT,

    it says that 14500 Li-ion batteries are not supported. Does that mean that we CAN'T use them?
    The 3.7V voltage is above the oprating range of the SC51 and thus not recommended.
    ZEBRALIGHT.com

  24. #114
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    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarlix View Post
    Good news

    I kick myself for purchasing the H51 prior to these changes though :-( Oh well still an excellent light :-)
    I've learned the lesson the hard way not to order a new ZL model until it's been out for at least a few months as it's not uncommon for ZL to make modifications and fine tune them in the first few months after release (not that I mind them doing that, I just want to get the benefit of it).
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  25. #115
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    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Quote Originally Posted by ZebraLight View Post
    All sub-levels except the M2 (8Lm) and L2 (0.2Lm) are now current regulated. L2 PWM flickering has been reduced to a much lower level.

    These updates are also implemented in the H51.
    What is the PWM freq? Is it more than 1000Hz?

  26. #116
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    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Quote Originally Posted by dmn42 View Post
    What is the PWM freq? Is it more than 1000Hz?
    The frequency is not that high. However, a very large (relative to the load at L2) capacitor is put there to filter out most of the L2 PWM pulses.
    ZEBRALIGHT.com

  27. #117

    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Quote Originally Posted by ZebraLight View Post
    The shipping started on last Friday.

    The second sub-level of the High (H2) is expanded to include 100Lm, 140Lm and a 4Hz strobe. Double click 6 times in High to enter the configuration mode for the H2. Further double clicks to cycle throgh the list. Short click or long click to exit.

    All sub-levels except the M2 (8Lm) and L2 (0.2Lm) are now current regulated. L2 PWM flickering has been reduced to a much lower level.

    These updates are also implemented in the H51.
    4Hz strobe! Yes! Thank you! Thank you! Now the wait for neutral white begins.
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  28. #118
    Flashaholic* nanotech17's Avatar
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    Rolleye11 Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Quote Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
    4Hz strobe! Yes! Thank you! Thank you! Now the wait for neutral white begins.
    I just received my H51 on the 10/22/10 so i thought there is no strobe after using it for 2 days now but after reading this i tried mine and it has that 4Hz strobe YESSSSSS!! I have got the latest H51 with the updated driver circuit



  29. #119
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    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Quote Originally Posted by ZebraLight View Post
    The frequency is not that high. However, a very large (relative to the load at L2) capacitor is put there to filter out most of the L2 PWM pulses.
    Well.. Lets try. Hope lowest low will be usable for me.

    Btw, why didn't you simply increase freqency instead of putting capacitor?


    UPD: oups, availability ot SC51 changed to back order. The first batch is sold out?
    Last edited by dmn42; 10-24-2010 at 02:44 AM.

  30. #120
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    Default Re: Zebralight SC51 (XP-G R4) & SC50w (XP-E Neutral) 1xAA Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOT

    Quote Originally Posted by ZebraLight View Post
    The second sub-level of the High (H2) is expanded to include 100Lm, 140Lm and a 4Hz strobe.
    That is excellent news regarding the addition of the strobe output. Can you tell us what nominal output level (lumen) the strobe is at? Is it run at/near max, or 140 or ?

    Thanks and regards!

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