What in reality is the good of super throwers without binoculars or a scope?

[Oztorchfreak]

From my usage over the years I can't really see why people get obsessed over super throwing torches for everyday use on walks etc.

When I go for my walks at night I don't think I can really make people out at more than around 100 yards.

Afterall, it is people at less than 100 yards that attack you not bridges, church steeples or phone towers at 500 yards.

From my experience 700 lumens with a good mix of flood and throw is ample for night walks in a street or even bush walking.

As torches evolve it is great to have plenty of lumens, but in normal use the extra lumens are more useful to see all around you and about 100 - 200 yards maximum in the distance.

If your eyes can make out who is in the distance at night at around 200 - 400 yards without assistance then you must be Superman!!

I use an Olight M30 Triton and it does very well as it covers a good wide angle as well as giving me a reasonable throw to make people or objects out.

The new Olight M31 (SR50 emitter) has more throw when I have tried it but it comes with a warning not use the high mode for too long as it can harm the batteries or electronics in it.

I have never had a problem running my M30 for over an hour until the 2 x 18500 Lion batteries are dead flat.

An hour of runtime covers my walks with battery capacity still in reserve.

I have a Stanley 35 HID near the front door for use in emergencies or when I hear a noise and I really need to see what is going on in the street.

Lights like these HIDs etc are really searchlights and not practical for everyday use.

The Stanley HID lights the whole street up but that is not a walking or everyday use torch.

When I shine my Stanley 35W HID across concrete bridge pylons I can just make out that the Stanley is barely lighting a column at 500 yards or more.

Yes I can barely see a reflection on the huge concrete pylons but I would definitely need a scope or binoculars to see the subject properly.

What do you guys or girls think about throwers versus floody torches for walks?

[parnass]

I need a powerful light so I can be seen by oncoming traffic at distances up to a half mile.

My most powerful flashlight is "only" 200 lumens. I walk on country roads at night which have no sidewalks, streetlights, or shoulders and the speed limit is 50 - 55 MPH.

[SCEMan]

Very good points. I too have trouble identifying details beyond 100 yards or so. I've used a DBS/MC-E and the tint and wide beam is great for illuminating a bright area. But along the foothills where I walk I like to see what's watching me (eye reflection) in the trees and brush father out. So far the Thrunight 1.5A XP-G single mode in a DBS XE-E SMO has worked very well for this. Very pocketable and a great compromise of throw & spill.

[Cataract]

Ahhh, some common sense!

My personal opinion is that throw over 100 yards is good to have fun with and annoy people by lighting their houses from so far away that no one will ever figure out what's going on.

In my experience, throw even at 100 yards has very limited practical use. The only time I need that is to spot where a trail starts when I'm looking at a tree line across a plain or a field. Then again, I could just walk at least half the distance before searching, since I'm not running away from anything. It has been very useful when the field was damp and filled with mud holes, though.

I've tried to hold a flashlight at arm's length and look at the target a little less than 100 yards away, and all I could see was the beam and nothing else! Unless your buddy is standing another 100 yards to your left (I'm just making a random number up), you are likely to see even less with binoculars or a telescope.

But ths kind of throw does have one advantage: having a flashlight that can throw 300 yards rather than 100, means that you'll get something like three times more light on targets at, let's say, 50 yards away (very gross approximation). The downside is that your spot is likely to be smaller, so it's always a question of what do you really need it for?

[PCC]

I've found that I like my lights to be floody for the very reasons that you have stated. I was having a discussion with my cousin a few months ago when I gave him a Quark AA2 Tactical and I mentioned the Turbo version. He asked me why he would need something like that since his vision isn't all that good even with his glasses on and the narrow spot just makes it feel like he's walking in a tunnel. It was at that point when I realized that most of my lights are on the floody side and that I don't carry my throwers as often as my flooders. The floody lights do need to be brighter to light up objects further out, though, while a thrower can get away with less lumens in this situation.

[jacktheclipper]

When I'm night fishing I sometimes have the need to see a channel marker far away , however , this is a reflective surface and at distance you don't need ' target I.D.' . Yes , for walks floody is better but super throw has it's use.

[jellydonut]

I have no idea why people obsess so much over throw - every throwy flashlight sacrifices illuminating, useful spill in order to create a glaring, blinding hotspot that is almost useless at close distances.

I prefer my super-flooding Malkoff Wildcat when I actually need a useful light. I guess the throw obsession is somewhat akin to people who build car stereos merely to play a nasty bass tone to a dB meter, or people building engines merely to put them on a dynamometer to see what they can do.

I'm sure for certain special use cases a thrower is a good thing to have but for general purpose use I have no idea why people prioritize it so much.

[661randyg]

since the begining of time when man learned to make fire he discovered that it lit up his cave, when he installed 2 torches it was better, then he installed 20 torches and it was great. well untill the wife saw all the imperfections in the cave and man had to fix them on his days off, you get the picture, right? most people i know dont really care about haveing a nice bright flashlight. to them a light is just a light. but to a true flashaholic, each luman counts and when the next brightest led comes out for some unexplaneable reason we just have to have it.


yea i know, got carried away in the moment. but then again light is beautifull at night!

[Oztorchfreak]

Thanks guys,

I was going to say in my original post that a thrower will put a lot of light on a subject at close range but the size of that coverage would be pretty small and tight.

As the subject moves closer you may find it harder to keep the subject in view properly due to the narrowing spot.

As they say it's a matter of horses for courses I suppose.

A good mix of both flood and spot is really handy I think.

Maybe you have to carry two torches to cover the bases properly.

It's like we want a Polarion HID or Olight SR90 that fits in your pocket that covers the peripheral area as well as 400 yards into the wilderness ahead!!

Sounds like a scene from The Jetsons cartoon series where his space car folds up into a briefcase.

Boy am I showing my age by talking about The Jetsons.

Now I am getting a bit over the top but what other suggestions does anybody have to please everyone on this subject?

[jhc37013]

I would consider a light I use for walks and a EDC light as two separate lights. EDC for at work or whatever I do during normal day and night activities need to be in a holster or in my pocket.

I don't really care how large a walking/hiking light is as long as it gets the job done. Now as for flood vs. throw I still want a little throw in at least one of the EDC light's I carry daily. When I come home at night I like to scan my property and see what is moving about and I need 80-100 meters for that. Even if I feel I don't need to look at my property I still want the ability to illuminate objects at at least 100 meters without bringing out the big guns, and hey with all the small light's we have to choose from these days it's not to hard to find one.

80-100 meters does not sound like much but if I'm carrying it low-profile true EDC style in a pocket or small holster the light may be considered a small thrower like a Jet-I Pro.

This is the reason I sometimes find myself looking for small throwers.

[looman]

Very simple

I hunt.

I have to have reach to target to ID preferably with the Mk1 eyeball before I raise the rifle. I then double check to make sure I am correct.

I also need to be able to see behind the target to ensure there is nothing in imminent danger should I decide to slip the shot.

If I cant see behind the quarry, I cant make that assessment and therefore would never slip the shot.

Also, some folks eyesight is stunning in human terms.

I had excellent eyesight and it still is allowing for my age etc but a shooting buddy had phenominal eyesight.

He would spot a rabbit/s form hundreds of yards away and I had trouble seeing them with bino's.

It is a tool and just because your requirement does not have a niche requirment doesnt mean that others do.

I also have a OMG DEFT. The beam on that is very very long and as tight as a ducks poop tackle - most would think it is no good for hunting.

Well you'd be wrong. Because it is aspheric and just projects the square image of the emitter, it means I can use the light in very sensitive areas without disturbing neighbours.

It is also handy for the retreiver - she is as keen as mustard but her nose sends her on wild goose chases if we use a flood.

She has come to realise, where the little patch of light is means the quarry is there so now she just scoots to collect.

She will then bring it back and then swerve off 50 yards out and drop the quarry but were working on that LOL.

So yeah, throwers really are very very useful and I for one will be very happy when we get real 500 yard throwers.

[Oztorchfreak]

Hey guys I am getting some good feedback on this issue.

I just think it is hard to have throw and flood in the one product, but they are making great leaps in the technology lately in regard to power, lenses and reflectors.

Just think what might be around in a couple of years or so.

We may look back at the throw vs flood debate as old hat because there will be one torch fits all needs by then complete with solar charging.

It may also have super capacitors for batteries as in the Light For Life torch.

We can dream can't we?


In reply to looman,

Are you using a scope when shooting?

I have been shooting quite a lot many years ago and I found at night it is hard without a scope to make out the target easily over one hundred yards away let alone see what was another 100 yards behind that in case the bullet went too far or wide.

We used normal halogen 12V spotlights from the 4WD vehicle in those days.

[mvyrmnd]

For just walking at night, with my dogs and pram, I use my Triple MC-E Mag. 2100 Lumens of pure flood. Lights up everything in front of me like daylight.

I keep a small throwy light like an RRT-2 for spotting the dogs if they run off into the distance a bit.

Flood is far more useful for me. I have a couple of throwers, mostly for fun and showing off, but they don't get used terribly often.

[Mr Bigglow]

Where I live, if you shoot at night with a scope you likely end up in poacher's prison, or definitely a real prison if you make a mistake. How does this necessity come up anywhere? I mean legally?

[Saint_Dogbert]

A throwy light will allow for less back-scatter and thus better contrast than a floodier light, even at modest distances where you might not think to employ a thrower. This is especially important with the lower color rendition of LEDs, at least in my opinion.

In reality, many specialized tools are very useful, even if you personally have no practical use for one. Of course a thrower is useless at close distances; thowers are intended to be used over medium to long distances. For general use, I like a floody light capable of producing very low output when required. I actually don't know of many people that obsess over having a throwy _EDC_ light. It would be too big to carry regularly, if nothing else.

[B0wz3r]

I bicycle as my main form of transportation, and my commute has a 3 mi. stretch of back country roads where the speed limit is 50 mph (meaning, people usually drive 65 or 70). A bright thrower is essential for me for being able to see over the longer distances involved, and for letting oncoming cars know I'm there; 240 lumens in the face from my Jet III Pro ST or RRT-0 will make drivers flinch at even 100 yards.

[stallion2]

flood is generally more useful than throw and i suppose this would be more critical w/ an EDC than any other light. i will say that if you can only carry one light and want the most versatility then i find a throwing light w/ a diffuser can carry out the most tasks. i love my LX2 for that reason though i no longer EDC it.

[sfca]

It's the burning feeling in the other persons retinas hahahaha ! In the industry where I worked in previously this is a good attribute.

[ayglass]

Hey Mr. B,

Generally in this area night hunting is allowed for nocturnal varmints. Coyotes come to mind at the moment as there are very few rules about shooting them and a couple of them showed up on my trail camera last night.

- Andy

[LEDninja]

But ths kind of throw does have one advantage: having a flashlight that can throw 300 yards rather than 100, means that you'll get something like three times more light on targets at, let's say, 50 yards away (very gross approximation). The downside is that your spot is likely to be smaller, so it's always a question of what do you really need it for?

Because of the inverse square law:
having a flashlight that can throw 300 yards rather than 100, means that you'll get something like nine times more light on targets at, let's say, 50 yards away.

[Oztorchfreak]

I agree that you would get lots of light at only 50 - 100 yards.

The thing with the makers stating a throw of 300 yards throw is usually measured when there is only 1 lux on the target at that distance as far as I can make out.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

I still have a problem working out what you will really see at 300 yards.

At 300 yards all I can see is reflecting objects like stop signs etc.

I still can't make out the object if it is not very reflective like a person wearing dark clothing.

Throwing without eyesight assistance at 300 yards still sounds a bit far fetched to me.

But what a great short distance light cannon a thrower makes.

It still does not make much sense to buy a thrower when my 700 lumen Olight M30 Triton is capable of throwing a wall of light and still lighting targets that can be distinguished at 100 yards or more.

I know throwers are great fun and they have their place.

I think the case for throw vs flood will be a hot subject for years to come.

[Cataract]

A tight spot will help when you're searching for something further away behind a bunch of trees and bushes, since less light will scattered back from leaves and branches left and right. Just not a very usual application and I totally agree... what will you be able to make out at anywhere over 200 yards? Trees, cars and stop signs are all that come to mind.

Because of the inverse square law:
having a flashlight that can throw 300 yards rather than 100, means that you'll get something like nine times more light on targets at, let's say, 50 yards away.

That's probably closer to reality than my very very gross conservative estimate.

[MIKENC]

I use my throwers for finding something specific(coons in trees).They help me find them easier than a really bright general purpose or flood light because the light is so much more concentrated. So to me that is the good of super throwing EDCs.(and they are easy to carry)

[steve007]

The brightest, more throw, more flood, cheapest.....it all is a hobby that many love and find lots of fun in searching for the ultimate flashlight.

Throwers are not for everyone, floods are not for everyone and in many cases flashlights are not for everyone.

I've loved flashlights ever since I was a kid and I've always wanted the brightest one there is. Others want the ability to illuminate a beam of up to 5 miles if it were possible. My brightest is 240 lumens ....more than enough for my purposes and overall satisfaction.

[B0wz3r]

I use my throwers for finding something specific(coons in trees).They help me find them easier than a really bright general purpose or flood light because the light is so much more concentrated. So to me that is the good of super throwing EDCs.(and they are easy to carry)

This applies on a general level to ID'ing lots of different things. At 100+ yds with enough light you can tell the difference between say a raccoon and a small dog or a cat. You might not be able to tell exactly what kind of dog it is, or what kind of cat it is, but you'll be able to know whether you should put it down without accidentally sending the neighbor's pooch to doggy heaven...

This applies to identifying people as well; we have an inherent ability to tell from the biomechanics of how a persons body moves whether the person is male or female. Each gender has specific patterns of movement in just about every situation that are subtly distinct based on differences in body proportions. This has been verified experimentally with moving dot displays; dots place on the joints move in particular patterns while walking for instance, and just from the relative motion of these dots and no other information at all, not being able to see any details of the person's body, we are still exceptional at determining if the person is male or female. So having a good thrower will let you know if the person you're seeing is male or female, relatively tall or short, etc. Of course you won't be able to make out individual details like hair or eye color, exact height/weight etc. but you can get enough info to make a general assessment if who you're looking at is someone you should be concerned about. This would be of crucial value for a LEO I would think...

[Dude Dudeson]

When I got into high performance flashlights I was living in a very rural area. We'd get packs of coyotes literally running up and down the street in front of the house.

So, when walking around that area the further away I could see any coyotes the better.

It'd be pretty hard to imagine any hand held flashlight with "too much throw" out there.

[grumbler]

I've found that, compared to "floody" lights, "throwy" lights are more useful in situations that aren't completely dark-- say, in light from twilight or dim streetlights. In such lighting, focused lumens are much more visible than diffused, "floody" lumens. Diffused light is better in complete darkness, though.

[Xacto]

[....]
This applies to identifying people as well;[....]

And they know that they have been detected and are being tracked. Something to be considered too.

Cheers
Thorsten

[mvyrmnd]

The brightest, more throw, more flood, cheapest.....it all is a hobby that many love and find lots of fun in searching for the ultimate flashlight.

Throwers are not for everyone, floods are not for everyone and in many cases flashlights are not for everyone.

+1

I haven't found my ultimate light yet, but I'm having a grand old time searching for it

[TwinBlade]

Throwers have their place for certain things besides a WOW factor.

A few years back I was in the Florida Everglades on an airboat that my wife's uncle owned. Out in the glades they have "camps" which are basically small 1 room houses built on stilts. They have a gas stove and generators, fully screened windows with plywood storms to drop down over them from hinges. Really cool actually.

Well, one night in his camp, about 2AM, we were wasted and I told my wife's uncle that I wanted to catch an alligator. I also qualified that by saying I didn't want a 6 footer...something more manageable. So we headed out and he reached down to grab what was basically an aircraft landing light that was mounted to a cranium strap like on a welders helmet and connected it to a 12v deep cycle battery. That sucker had an EASY half mile of throw. It makes seeing bitty eyeballs in the water a whole lot easier at ridiculous distances.