Washer troubles...

Hello my little cabbages! (Loose translation of a particular French term of endearment... doesn't make much sense to me, either... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

While working on the Milky Candle, I came across a clear plastic washer that fits perfectly to hold some of the components in place. The washer was actually a spacer from a cakebox of CD-R blanks, and I only have a few of them. I need more!
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The inner diameter is 15mm and the outer diameter is 24mm. The specific material used to make the washer isn't critical, though I have a slight preference for a rigid plastic, with second choice being metal and the worst choice being soft plastic.

Does anyone know where I could get my hands on such washers, or perhaps have them made for a fairly reasonable price?
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How about 'parting off' sections of 5mm wall tube? A carbide tipped 'chop saw' can make you a pile in a very short order.

Another option is 'thermo forming' plastic sheet. Heat a strip of ABS or similar plastic in the over until it get's soft then wrap it around a dowel until it cools. It doesn't have to be a complet circle, right? 300 degrees or so should do just fine, the gap will help 'clamp down'. A bunch of real products are made this way.

You can probably buy a pile of them cheap from the guy that makes the CDs as well?

Doug Owen

Doug, is a 'chop saw' a particular kind of tool, or a name you give to some other type of saw when used for this purpose? If it is a distinct tool, where would I look for one?

I'd have to find 5mm wall tube (4mm wall tube would also work) that also happened to have an outside diameter of 24mm. If it was 25mm, it wouldn't fit. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif So the specs in this regard are pretty specific.

I'd love to get a pile of them from the CD manufacturer. But will he even give me the time of day, given that I'm just a dinky little hobbyist?

All, there must be a "washer house" somewhere! I'm imagining a place that sells all sorts of washers; anyone know of such a place?

Yes, a chop saw is a particular type ...

Google: Chop saw

How 'bout checking a place that has a variety of plumbing supplies - I.E. Lowe's or similar, to see if maybe any of the plastic pipe might fit if cut into proper width pieces ...

Lacking a chop saw to beg, borrow, or steal (several rental places 'round here have them), you could use a hacksaw and a mitre block, or similar. More hand work, but at least can be done if you can't find washers that are just right, but can find pipe or tube.

Once again, Thomas is 'fast on the trigger' and spot on. I'm suggesting the sort of thing that is shown in his fourth photo. You put a stop just to the right side (assuming you're right handed) of the blade a 'washer thickness' out. Hold the blade up, tube against the stop with your left hand, lower the blade, raise it, remove the piece and repeat. You can even rig a 'kickout' (either mechanical or perhaps a blast of air) to clear the part and make a big old pile of parts in a very quick time.

Such parts can also be punched on a Rotex or even 'step and repeat' punch. That's how most washers are made.

You can also ream out the fitting to accept a slightly larger SAE washer (which has the added advantage of providing a known flat sholder). Such a ream could be very fast and cheap to do.

Not to mention buying them.

Lots of options.

Doug Owen

There are all sorts of nylon fender washers available. I am assuming you are speaking of a flat washer? I took a quick peek at your referenced link but don't have the time to read the whole thread in hopes of finding the missing washer. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif .What is the thickness of this washer? Have you tried a place like McMaster-Carr?

- Don

Doug, I'm one of those backwards left handed people, so I'll have to reverse some of your directions... but I'm used to it... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

So a chop saw is basically a circular saw on a frame to limit the degrees of freedom? You basically adjust everything to your liking, and pull it down, onto the object? I could justify the cost of such a tool if it would be useful for general use, such as cutting smallish pieces of wood, interior trim, etc. I assume a chop saw can do such things... or not? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

As for the Rotex, I have absolutely no idea what that is, nor do I know if it's even the kind of thing that's affordable for a hobbyist. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Reaming out the fitting won't work, because the part needing the reaming is the endcap itself, and the reaming would damage the threads. Oops! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif As for the SAE washer, if such things exist with outer diameter of 31/32 inch (and inner diameter close to 15mm, or its SAE equivalent), we're in business! An outer diameter of 15/16 might work, too. What sizes do SAE washers come in? And is there a good online source of washers... a "washer king" or "washers 'r' us," so to speak? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

So in general, every suggestion brings a new question, but all the while, my bottom line in the short run is still getting my hands on those washers, one way or another! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

[ QUOTE ]
McGizmo said:
There are all sorts of nylon fender washers available. I am assuming you are speaking of a flat washer? I took a quick peek at your referenced link but don't have the time to read the whole thread in hopes of finding the missing washer. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif .What is the thickness of this washer? Have you tried a place like McMaster-Carr?

- Don

[/ QUOTE ]

Don, most definitely I'm looking for a flat washer, and nylon would be fine so long as it's relatively stiff. I wouldn't want a rubber washer, for example.

McMaster-Carr? I've never heard of them! Guys, you've got to understand that I could point all of you to roughly 37 terrific sources for computer parts and supplies, but approximately ZERO places for washers and other machine parts. It's not my area of expertise! So I'm leaning heavily on the wealth of knowledge that pretty much everyone in this thread EXCEPT me has. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Thanks for the tip, and if there are other places I could check, especially online, please tell me about them! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

As for the washer, I'll bring the photo to you. Look closely at the semi-clear ring around the Kroll switch...



Hope this helps clarify things a little! Maybe my explanation wasn't all that great. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Milkyspit,

I'm not sure I'm seeing a flat washer? It looks like you have some type of cup washer or other type of bushing in the picture. If a simple flat washer will work, go to mcmaster.com and type nylon washer in the find box. You can also plastic washer and even just washer. Good hunting!

- Don

[ QUOTE ]
milkyspit said:

So a chop saw is basically a circular saw on a frame to limit the degrees of freedom? You basically adjust everything to your liking, and pull it down, onto the object? I could justify the cost of such a tool if it would be useful for general use, such as cutting smallish pieces of wood, interior trim, etc. I assume a chop saw can do such things... or not? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

As for the Rotex, I have absolutely no idea what that is, nor do I know if it's even the kind of thing that's affordable for a hobbyist. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Reaming out the fitting won't work, because the part needing the reaming is the endcap itself, and the reaming would damage the threads. Oops! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif As for the SAE washer, if such things exist with outer diameter of 31/32 inch (and inner diameter close to 15mm, or its SAE equivalent), we're in business! An outer diameter of 15/16 might work, too. What sizes do SAE washers come in? And is there a good online source of washers... a "washer king" or "washers 'r' us," so to speak? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif



[/ QUOTE ]

You've got chop saws figured out. Yes they are routinely used for 'cut off' jobs. Most will do miters well for picture frames and the like. Some are 'wet saws' that cut ceramics and the like with diamond blades. They are also a common rental item. A suitable 'off shore' one can easliy be had under $100.

Rotex is a brand name of a common punch for inch or so size work on sheet metal and similar. Expensive new, but last for ever. Last single station one I bought was $200 for a used one (came with 3 punches and dies). Kinda big if you don't need it routinely.

Don't discount reaming. do you really need all the threads?

As far as 'washer makers' a Google search on "Plastic Washers" gives JACO Products as the number 3 'hit':

JACO

"Plastic Washers:
Jaco, over the last 54 years, has built an inventory of stamping dies. Our representative listing of tooling has been provided to assist you in your selection. Ask customer service if your specification is not found.

Choose from a variety of available materials offered."

Thickness - choose from .010" through .093".


Their P/N 3601-H4 looks promising, .937 OD (23.79 mm), .630 ID (16 mm) . Seems like a good fit? How thick do you want it?

IMO, this is a distraction at this point, such parts are available (or can be easily made)

Doug Owen

[ QUOTE ]
McGizmo said:
Milkyspit,

I'm not sure I'm seeing a flat washer? It looks like you have some type of cup washer or other type of bushing in the picture. If a simple flat washer will work, go to mcmaster.com and type nylon washer in the find box. You can also plastic washer and even just washer. Good hunting!

- Don

[/ QUOTE ]

Don, thanks for the tip. Incidentally, it most definitely is a flat washer made of a semi-transparent plastic; the other things you see in the photo are parts of the PVC coupler and/or the Kroll switch.

[ QUOTE ]
Doug Owen said:
Don't discount reaming. do you really need all the threads?

(...snip...)

IMO, this is a distraction at this point, such parts are available (or can be easily made)

Doug Owen

[/ QUOTE ]

Doug, thanks as always for the info; I found all of it handy, even beyond the immediate need for a washer.

In a purely rational world you're also correct about the washer issue being a distraction, but I also know myself, and it will be much less of a distraction when I've got a little box of washers sitting in my drawer, if you know what I mean. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif Oh well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

[ QUOTE ]
milkyspit said:
Doug, thanks as always for the info; I found all of it handy, even beyond the immediate need for a washer.

In a purely rational world you're also correct about the washer issue being a distraction, but I also know myself, and it will be much less of a distraction when I've got a little box of washers sitting in my drawer, if you know what I mean. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif Oh well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Sadly, I know *exactly* what you mean. Just 'cuz I can spot 'em sometimes doesn't mean I can always do so or avoid 'em myself. But I'm going to the Group Meetings twice a week now and things are getting better.....

Besides which it wouldn't really be fair to solve all the issues and deprive our fellow CPFers of some of the fun now would it?

Doug Owen

Hello Scott,

I would just like to clear up some terms.

I was taught that a washer is measured by outside diameter and inside diameter. It is thin, usually under 1/4".

If you have to stack 2 or more washers, you have a spacer. A spacer is measured by OD, ID, and thickness.

A third term is bushing. It is also measured by OD, ID, and thickness. It has a different use than the spacer or washer.

The only reason I bring this up is that if you go to the McMaster web site, you will find different products listed searching on "washer", "spacer", and "bushing." Washers refer to flat washers only, and they have kind of lumped spacers and bushings together.

If you can't find a "washer" that is suitable, try looking for a thin "spacer".

Tom

SilverFox (Tom), thanks. That terminology lesson is helpful. Yesterday I was confused at the McMaster site. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif