NBP vs. Wild

[HarryN]

Sort of related to this thread, my son and i watch many of the same shows. (too many commercials, but that is a different issue).

This past week I have started him in on some of these skills as well. The first one was to make a small snare from what he found in our 30 x 50 ft back yard. He managed to make one - needs refinement, but it was a good start.

He also now recognizes the value of commercial wire.

Next up - a making rope.

[HarryN]

Kicking and dragging, I made my son look up rope making on youtube yesterday. A few hours later I asked him to make a rope 12 inches long for me from some twine. Then he manged to humble me by asking "what kind of rope would you like ? "

A few minutes later, he had made an 8 string rope with some kind of double weaving arrangement. Pretty neat.

Next up - make a rope from branches in the back yard.

Harry

[nbp]

Very cool projects Harry! You should post some pics of the stuff you guys make.

[nbp]

Hey, guys!

Sorry I neglected this thread for so long.

I played outside today, and I added a bunch of material to the water and food sections, and added a supplementary "miscellaneous useful stuff" section.

I hope you all enjoy it and look forward to questions, comments and suggestions.

[ToyTank]

Great thread! I know I'm guilty of reading and learning theory of solar still and fire plow but I've never put them to practice. Bravo.

In fire section I think Fatwood(aka pitchwood-or pitch but sometimes pine sap is called pitch) It can be used as tinder, kindling, and primary fuel. Water proof and fairly common in wooded areas. I find even in a heavily used camp ground I can find fat wood in old stumps or standing dead wood. Sappy pine like larch is the best bet but I've found fatwood like hearts in rotting cottonwood stumps. Anyway especially during wet weather I'll always look for some fatwood to start a fire.

I have a bunch of this stuff in the back yard at my firepit if someone wants a piece to drill a lanyard hole in and carry send me a PM

[Doc Nonverbal]

Thanks for posting your experiences - this is a great thread! I've never tried making a primitive shelter, but used to go wilderness camping in the Adirondacks twice a year in the early Spring and late Fall. A few tricks I learned that I'll pass along:

Carry a disposable Bic lighter into the woods. They're smaller, lighter, faster and more reliable than the magnesium flint & steel route. When the butane runs out, you can still light fires with the sparker, provided that you have some good tinder like cotton. I have done this and it works really well. Each lighter is good for something like 3,000 lights. That's a long time.

The other thing I carry is a candle - one of those slow-burning survival models. If you light it at home once, it will subsequently light really quickly when you need it. Lighting the candle first conserves a lot of fuel in the lighter. You then light your fire from the candle and blow it out once your fire is well-established.

If you have luck like mine, it will inevitably start raining when you go camping. I bring along two tarps: One to cover my wood / kindling / tinder supply and the other is attached to the front of my tent and is propped up with a spare pole. This was probably one of the most useful ideas I came up with, as it gives me a covered area to cook and sit even in the worst downpour. Just be sure you're not on low ground. 8^ )

As I'm camping in the early Spring / late Fall, there are lots of leaves on the ground. I pile them up, remove any twigs/branches, and put my tent on top of the pile. This provides a little insulation from the ground and also helps with drainage. I've read that you're supposed to put the ground cloth INSIDE the tent, which is something I'll try the next time I go.

BTW, if anyone knows of a source for Outdoor Research "Cell Blocks", please let me know. I bought a few of them years ago and found them to be awesome for organizing my pack. I think OR stopped making them, which is a darn shame as they were really handy.

Thanks again for posting!

[Kestrel]

I just got back from a 3-day backpacking trip in the OR Cascades. Around 12" of snow on average.
Fire building was extraordinarily difficult this trip - most of the tinder & wood was soaked, had a coating of ice, and then snow on top of that. The two most important things that helped were some rather pitchy evergreen stump wood, and small candles.

Regarding the candles, I have found that the best are those 100-packs of small 'tea candles'. I keep six in my survival gear, and when the fire building is difficult I just use one of those and assemble the tinder above it. Each short candle burns for five minutes or so, drying out wet & icy tinder and finally getting it to burn.

[NonSenCe]

i love to use those tea candles too.. even at home i tend to light couple of them when i want some candle mood light.

keep couple in my car too (try to keep it stocked with equipment and tools that can help to take me out of trouble in case of breakdown or keeps me comfortable for few days if need be) and the metallic tin cup can be useful too:

and years ago while in army i carried those with me to the woods.. when camped by small lake for some time during training i just cleaned one of them well and made me a fish lure out of it. used it with roll of fishing line i also carried, had time to fish while i was left "guarding the camp" (twisted my ankle so i was the radio and guard while others did their training tasks).. the look of other guys while they come back to camp and see me fryin fresh fish was priceless. we had been eating mre´s all week.

[Doc Nonverbal]

and years ago while in army i carried those with me to the woods.. when camped by small lake for some time during training i just cleaned one of them well and made me a fish lure out of it. used it with roll of fishing line i also carried, had time to fish while i was left "guarding the camp" (twisted my ankle so i was the radio and guard while others did their training tasks).. the look of other guys while they come back to camp and see me fryin fresh fish was priceless. we had been eating mre´s all week.

Awesome improvising! That was a really neat idea - I'll have to remember that one.

[Hooked on Fenix]

For firestarting, I'd suggest the firesteel.com Gobspark Armaggeddon with the palm striker. It throws more sparks than the Light My Fire ones since it uses Misch Metal and it can be used while wearing gloves. The striker handle is longer and is plastic so your hand doesn't freeze to the striker in the cold.

For making shelter, remember that you will most likely have cord to use for lashing. Use your shoe laces. Two shoe laces is all you need to rig a frame for a lean-to shelter (which works a little better while keeping warm next to a fire).

While I commend NBP for trying to make it on as little as possible to demonstrate survival techniques, it should be pointed out that a little gear goes a long way for survival. Here's a short list of some items that would make things a whole lot easier:

Poncho (my favorite is Integral Designs Silponcho)- acts as a tarp, a fly, a bivy sack, or a poncho
Firesteel-Misch Metal types work the best (get one rated for at least 3,000 strikes so it is less likely to snap in half, 12,000+ strike ones are the best for long term survival)
waterproof firestarter (I like magnesium, candles, and firestraws)
cord- 50+ feet for rigging shelters
good knife
water purification device (Micropur tablets, Lifestraw, Saywer Squeeze filter are all less than an ounce to 3 oz.)
water bottle (an aluminum or stainless steel bottle will allow for boiling to purify water in an emergency)
good l.e.d. headlight (no CPF member should be without one)

[Doc Nonverbal]

For firestarting, I'd suggest the firesteel.com Gobspark Armaggeddon with the palm striker. It throws more sparks than the Light My Fire ones since it uses Misch Metal and it can be used while wearing gloves. The striker handle is longer and is plastic so your hand doesn't freeze to the striker in the cold.

For making shelter, remember that you will most likely have cord to use for lashing. Use your shoe laces. Two shoe laces is all you need to rig a frame for a lean-to shelter (which works a little better while keeping warm next to a fire).

While I commend NBP for trying to make it on as little as possible to demonstrate survival techniques, it should be pointed out that a little gear goes a long way for survival. Here's a short list of some items that would make things a whole lot easier:

Poncho (my favorite is Integral Designs Silponcho)- acts as a tarp, a fly, a bivy sack, or a poncho
Firesteel-Misch Metal types work the best (get one rated for at least 3,000 strikes so it is less likely to snap in half, 12,000+ strike ones are the best for long term survival)
waterproof firestarter (I like magnesium, candles, and firestraws)
cord- 50+ feet for rigging shelters
good knife
water purification device (Micropur tablets, Lifestraw, Saywer Squeeze filter are all less than an ounce to 3 oz.)
water bottle (an aluminum or stainless steel bottle will allow for boiling to purify water in an emergency)
good l.e.d. headlight (no CPF member should be without one)

That's a good list. I'd add a few things to it:

Small compass
Duct Tape (I roll it around a thin wood dowel to save space)
Emergency first aid kit (duct tape also useful here)
Fishing kit (just a few hooks, line, and very small sinkers)
Sewing kit (needles & heavy duty thread)
Signal Mirror
Tweezers
Leatherman (I use a Leatherman Wave, which is very handy)
Safety Pins (thousands of uses)
Signal Whistle

For the knife, have you looked at the Spyderco Dragonfly II ZDP-189? It would be a pain to sharpen and shouldn't be used to pry, but it would stay sharp for a very, very long time.

I can fit a lot of what I need into a "Nite Ize" Pock-Its belt pouch. It has room for the Leatherman, a flashlight (I'm using a Streamlight JR), and loops that I use for tweezers and nail clippers. I keep the duct tape in the lower pouch and a Zip-Lock bag with paper and a pen in the back pouch.

I'm sure there are other things to add to the list, but I'm blocking them at the moment.

[Monocrom]

For the knife, have you looked at the Spyderco Dragonfly II ZDP-189? It would be a pain to sharpen and shouldn't be used to pry, but it would stay sharp for a very, very long time.

I have to respectfully disagree with that recommendation. Although I love my Spydercos, especially my First-Gen. Dragonfly, a knife that holds an edge but is extremely difficult to re-sharpen out in the field is not a good choice. When you're out camping, you never know what may happen. One may become stranded or stuck at the camp-site longer than expected. A simple carbon steel blade or one of the non-exotic S.S. blades would be a better choice. Along with a small, keychain sharpener. Something like the flat, diamond-dust impregnated folding ones sold by DMT. Weight-less. Doesn't take up any room at all. Gets a good working edge back on your knife once it starts getting dull.

[Doc Nonverbal]

I have to respectfully disagree with that recommendation. Although I love my Spydercos, especially my First-Gen. Dragonfly, a knife that holds an edge but is extremely difficult to re-sharpen out in the field is not a good choice. When you're out camping, you never know what may happen. One may become stranded or stuck at the camp-site longer than expected. A simple carbon steel blade or one of the non-exotic S.S. blades would be a better choice. Along with a small, keychain sharpener. Something like the flat, diamond-dust impregnated folding ones sold by DMT. Weight-less. Doesn't take up any room at all. Gets a good working edge back on your knife once it starts getting dull.

Thank you for your reply. I wasn't recommending this knife, as I haven't used it. I was simply asking if others have considered it.

I think your points are excellent. I keep a small keychain sharpener in my survival kit, but I wasn't sure about ZDP-189 as a survival blade. I like the idea of a knife that holds an edge very well, but perhaps specialized tools aren't the best to have in a survival kit.

[NonSenCe]

specialized tools.. they all are such in right hands.

but i do have some specilized tools in use.. like an scalpel blade/x-acto style hobby blades in my survival kit. (with the blade holder and about an inch of the handle which is hollow.. i can put a twig or something inside it if i need longer handle and just duct tape it tight.)

and a stanley/boxcutter blade too. very thin and sharp and lightweight cutter. (tried to carry razor blade but found it way too brittle for me to use) am looking for a ligthweight sheath/handle for it. used to have one out of thin plastic but first it broke and then i lost it.

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knife in my mind needs to be normal type (non folding).. the folding one can be backup/food prep knife. but the user knife needs to be easy to sharpen, even against a rock if needed. any folding mechanism might break and its very hard to fix it "in the wild".. almost impossible to make a makeshift handle in a pocket knife.. but if your basic fixed blade knife breaks its handle you can make a new one rather easily and if the blade breaks in two you can still use the stump somehow.

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when i was trying to find some parts ultra light and small.. and i was able to find a very small diamond sharpener in fishing section. (it has a fish hook sharpening groove too) i think this is the kind: http://www.cuchillosnavajas.com/en/4...119779639.html#

fishing and boating section is also where i go look for my stainless gate clips etc.

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duct tape i have in several different type of setups.. i carry a small roll if i can but on top of that,

one way is wrapped around an old credit card. (this could actually be useful if it would be operational bank account with little emergency fund in it.) cant use it before unwrapping it. hahah.

second one is wound around my signal mirror. the narrow width duct tape is wound in one end and can be used as "handle" of sorts and half of the mirror is visible as is. can be used as normal small mirror without unwrapping it.

third way: and i have one pencil (carpenter style ie thick) that has a section of ducttape rolled around, another section has rubberbands wrung around it, the rubber bands hold couple sowing needles, and then there is some sowing thread wound around it too.

....new idea i saw while ago: next time when i have used the credit card duct tape, i will find piece of reflecting tape of bright color or just silver, tape that on side of the credit card and then put a fresnel lense with it (a thing plastic magnifying lense), drill a lanyard hole into them and then i will take a piece of waxpaper and wrap that around those two. and then wrap the duct tape around it. that way i can slide the lense or the reflector card out of the duct tape easier to use them without unwrapping the tape.

[nbp]

Thanks guys, for the kind words. I'm sorry I haven't added anything to this thread in awhile. I was hoping it would be more comprehensive by now, but life seems to get in the way of fun sometimes. I appreciate all the cool tips and tricks you're posting though! Very interesting reading, and very helpful for assembling BoBs, camp gear, survival kits, or whatever. The more you know.....

[LED_Thrift]

...but life seems to get in the way of fun sometimes.

+1 to that unfortunately.

Great thread.