Why are HDS (RA) lights so popular?

I am trying to figure this out. Should I buy one? Clearly it is the forums favorite light. I think I can say that with near 100% certainty. I am trying to figure out why I should get one but can't figure out what is so great about them (having never seen one in person). I've read all the directions about the operation of the light. Perhaps you guys can convince me because I am not getting it but I feel like I'm missing out on the fun by not having one.

This may seem like I am bashing but I assure you that is not my intention. I am really trying to understand what is so great about these. Every time I think about pulling the trigger this is what stops me:

I understand they are built like a tank but I have not yet broken any light I own - even lights that are clearly not built like a tank.

It is certainly not small. In fact at nearly 4 inches it is pretty darn big for a CR123a light. My Zebralight SC60 is 4 inches and runs on an 18650 (brighter AND better run time).

I'm sure the beam is nice but I have lots of lights with nice beams (and some lights with horrible beams).

Yes, it is programmable. My Zebralights have some programming where I can pick out my brightness levels (out of 6 levels). My Nitecore SR3 had 8 brightness levels to choose from. This does not really seem much better than other lights. I suspect the "mode spacing" I would choose on an HDS light would be pretty close to what I have on my quarks already.

HDS lights are not that bright. There are many lights the same size and smaller that are much brighter. Heck the new Zebralight SC51 puts out 200 lumens on an AA battery. My Quark 123 puts out 200 lumens on a CR123a. Both of these have more power than any HDS light.

Lastly, I'm not really sold on the cr123a battery format. Primaries have decent run time but rcr123a just don't have much capacity. I really don't like using primaries so most of my cr123a lights stay on the shelf now. I really use my single AA (eneloop) and 18650 lights. I know they have a 17670 extension tube but then the light is huge.

Oh, and they are more $$ than most any cr123a light.

So I just am not getting it. Please help me "get it". I don't want to miss a great light but I'm not sure what is so great about it. I'm sure I am totally wrong since it is the favorite light of the forum and I have yet to hear of a failure but I also just don't see what is so great compared to other lights. (Edit: I just read a thread about a bunch of failures but it sounds like HDS customer service is top notch)

help me understand.

Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?

"HDS lights are not that bright. There are many lights the same size and smaller that are much brighter. Heck the new Zebralight SC51 puts out 200 lumens on an AA battery. My Quark 123 puts out 200 lumens on a CR123a. Both of these have more power than any HDS light"

HDS underrates their lights, and my HDS 170 blew my quark 123's "200 lumens" out of the water.

Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?

mossyoak said:

"HDS lights are not that bright. There are many lights the same size and smaller that are much brighter. Heck the new Zebralight SC51 puts out 200 lumens on an AA battery. My Quark 123 puts out 200 lumens on a CR123a. Both of these have more power than any HDS light"

HDS underrates their lights, and my HDS 170 blew my quark 123's "200 lumens" out of the water.

Click to expand...

Interesting. Thanks, that removes one of my concerns. Keep the info coming.

Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?

As I wrote in another thread:


'coz it's the most versatile light and suits my lighting needs 95% of the time. It's bombproof, has 4 output levels that can be programmed in incremental steps from 0.07 lumens to 170 genuine OTF lumens, it's over-engineered, it has flat-as-a-table-top regulation, automatic battery detection, physically protects the battery with spring cushioning at both ends, protects rechargeables from over-discharge, very reliable electronic forward clicky switch, 3mm AR coated UCL sandwiched between O-rings for shockproofing, fully potted electronics, great no-BS customer service, extra large SS bezel for better impact protection, verrrry looong runtimes, gives you a gradual warning when battery needs changing, HA III coated, has programmable momentary-on, a software button-lock, programmable memory or forced function, programmable automatic off function, has strobe/SOS/locator beacon but is hidden if not required, a very intuitive UI, it's ruggedly handsome, not ostentatious, does not over-heat, the LED is not overdriven so will last a lifetime, is available with a longer battery tube for longer runtimes, has really low lows, oozes quality, Made in US, each light is individually calibrated.........

Basically, the Clicky is a product of a very long evolution line. All the way back to the Arc 4, then the HDS EDC Basic/Ultimate series, then Novatac, then the HDS/Ra Twisty, and finally the Clicky in its current iteration. It's the flashlight equivalent of the Porsche 911.

Do I need to go on ?


Check out this thread for more info.

Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?

You're right, they are a bit large for single 123 lights. They are built as a tool, not so much as a pocket light, although they are small enough for that as long as you aren't wearing slacks. They fit the hand just right.

I think what makes them so good besides the build quality, is the UI. It seems complicated, reading the programming instructions, to get it set up. And compared to other lights, it is. But once you get it set up, this light will do whatever you want it to do. You can program it to have any UI you can think of. It will work as a clicky and a momentary, all at the same time. It has built in lockout, if you want it to. It has strobe, if you want it to. It has a very wide range of output levels from almost uselessly dim to full. It knows whether there is a li-ion or a primary in it and adjusts accordingly. It will stay in locator flash mode when turned off, if you want it to. It will come on at any output level you want it to. You can set each of 4 output levels in any order you want. You can leave it in program mode and have instant access to any output level you want, or you can lock those preset levels in.

And it can make wonderful omelets.

Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?

tre said:

can't figure out what is so great about them (having never seen one in person)

Click to expand...

There's youre problem right there!!!

Seriously though, get one. Or two like me.

Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?

I, too, want to understand.. And I'm fairly intent to find out for myself when the new model hits the scene.

I don't like single-clicky lights with any more than two modes so the current model is out for me. No matter how nice, well-built, durable and efficient it is I already know I don't like the UI so I'll wait for the new model with the new UI concept.

If it turns out I don't like that I'll find a used twisty. If that thing had a momentary tailcap as well it would be the perfect light and I could sell most of what else I have. :nana:

Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?

For me, the reason is a bit more subjective...I just do. It has all the features I need or want in a form that I like. I carry in a horizontal sheath on my belt, so the size isn't a problem.

I'll probably never stop buying more lights out of curiousity (aka lack of willpower :duh2, but I've never purchased one thinking that it would be a replacement for my HDS (which I carry every day).

Now, I realize that this doesn't help your decision, but here's my 2c...

In the words of the immortal Ferris Bueller, "It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up."

The first time you hold it you will either "get it" or you won't. If you do, then welcome to the club. If not, put it on the MP and get your money back.

Hope this helps,
Rich

Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?

I don't own a hds/ra clicky
I do own a novatac, which is very similar, the clicky is an evolution of the design.

If I could only have one light, this would be it.
It is bright enough to useable for most tasks, and on low is dim enough to not disturb my wife, or my night vision.
It is well built, gets it's rcr123 charged once a month (whether it needs it or not) and has a simple to learn interface.
I don't really play around with the programming of it, I set it up once (3years ago) and haven't needed to change it.
It blinks once every few seconds to let me know where it is.


Probably the best recommendation I can give, is my wife (who doesn't appreciate fine flashlights the way I do) asked for one, and carries it in her handbag.
My novatac has been carried pretty much everywhere I have been since I got it, and has failed to light up only once, due to a dead battery (i reholstered it turned on, and promptly forgot about it)

The HDS is the evolution of the design that started with the arc4, then the HDS EDC range, followed by novatac, and now RA/HDS

If I lost my novatac, I would have no hesitation in handing over the money for a Clicky

Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?

jellydonut said:

I don't like single-clicky lights with any more than two modes so the current model is out for me. No matter how nice, well-built, durable and efficient it is I already know I don't like the UI so I'll wait for the new model with the new UI concept.

Click to expand...

When Ra/HDS lights are referred to as fully programmable, it means just that. You can program it to behave as if it only has two modes.

Sometimes people have a hard time understanding the genuine versatility of this light.

Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?

I don't see the big problem here, buy one secondhand on the Marketplace. If you you don't like it.....just flip it. One persons opinion of something, may certainly not be the same as yours in the end. The only way to find out if it is truly for you, is to own one.....plain and simple.

Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?

mossyoak said:

"HDS lights are not that bright. There are many lights the same size and smaller that are much brighter. Heck the new Zebralight SC51 puts out 200 lumens on an AA battery. My Quark 123 puts out 200 lumens on a CR123a. Both of these have more power than any HDS light"

HDS underrates their lights, and my HDS 170 blew my quark 123's "200 lumens" out of the water.

Click to expand...

I thought both 4sevens and HDS rate their lights OTF? *scratches head*

Anyway for me, the reason is.. Waterproof to 20m!

Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?

I haven't bought one yet. Like many others, I've worked my way up slowly, starting by discovering the LEDMuseum, which pointed me to CPF; went from simple homemade LEDs, through Sandwich Shoppe dropins for the 2AA M@g and Solitaire, various Chinese lights as they came available, Ebay and Dealextreme and other sources, bought close to a dozen Arc AAAs in various colors, got some early ARC LSs, got a MillerModded Arc AAA, got several of my early Arc LSs modded, got my first Nailbender dropin, custom amber flood just a week or two ago.

Never bought an Arc after the LS level--at the time, just couldn't convince myself to spend that much money, seeing how fast LEDs keep changing. I never knew til last week that the late Arc lights came from Ra -- which would've made both more tempting sooner.

There comes a time when you realize, well, enough light is enough light, for everyday-and-everynight carrying. You want a completely reliable light that does enough well enough. You know enough will still be enough no matter how much things change in the next few years because you're no longer chasing what's newest, you want the light -- the illumination -- without any worries.

Maybe we never get past wanting the latest tool, but we get to where we also appreciate having one consistent light we can be sure of that has enough features.

Dagnabbit, I was hovering over the Ra twisty high color just last week.
It seemed to have enough of everything I wanted.

And zip, it's disappeared.

Thing is, you can't appreciate a really good LED light until you've gotten a good idea what else is out there--and spent two or three times what one good LED light will cost on other lights

Yeah, I'm OK with my current three or four lights that I swap between, and it's great to be able to give my castoffs to people who find them amazing over and over. And I'll keep doing it for a while.

But I've noticed there's another level, the Arc4 and the Ra Twisty high color are examples of the level I am going to be moving to, next time I've seen a light get proven that good.

I can hope someone clever and competent is building something almost as good as the Ra Twisty high color light and many lights will be almost that good in the coming year or so.

I can expect Ra will have something I'll like even better -- I sure hope so. This high end market is still pretty damned small, I think because of the long and twisty path we have to follow to really appreciate how much good can be put into one excellent light.

Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?

hank said:

Dagnabbit, I was hovering over the Ra twisty high color just last week.
It seemed to have enough of everything I wanted.

And zip, it's disappeared.

Click to expand...

Unique Titanium still has the Twisty high CRI in stock last time I checked.

Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?

F250XLT said:

I don't see the big problem here, buy one secondhand on the Marketplace. If you you don't like it.....just flip it. One persons opinion of something, may certainly not be the same as yours in the end. The only way to find out if it is truly for you, is to own one.....plain and simple.

Click to expand...

I seldom see used ones on the Marketplace and when I do they are still expensive.

My main concern is brightness. Does it draw 1.4 amps or more? If not it simply cannot be as bright as some less expensive yet very functional and bombproof flashlights. I still don't think it is bright enough for the difference in price.

I don't care about programming it. As long as it has a low and high I'm satisfied. The low can be 1 lumen or 20 - I don't care but for over $100 I'd like max to be in the high 200 lumen range. (over 250 otf on IMR16340)

I understand the light is beloved here so I don't post in the "I love my HDS thread" out of respect but this seems to be the thread to discuss such things...in fairness though...I also don't get spending a ton on a Rolex when my Seiko keeps time more accurately.

I'm really not trying to aggravate anyone. I just can't see why this light is worth so much money.

Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?

I agree with almost all that has been posted thus far.

I admit that it begins with the UI for me. I've tried a lot of different lights, and many of them work just fine, but the HDS UI remains the gold standard for utility the way I use a light. I've owned an Arc4+, an HDS EDC B52 and U60, and a Novatac 85P and 120P from the early days when they were still one company. But for my 120P being modded beautifully by DarkZero with a really nice K2 TFFC and sporting a PEU tritium bezel I'd have bought a Clicky. I'll likely pick up one at some point. And the basic programming features, what you can set and the options you can choose, as well as how you access the modes, is just an extremely useful and versatile way to use a flashlight. Everything else folks have said is also true, they have all been generally over engineered and designed to be as reliable as possible. There is a reason Surefire and Ra get so much attention, they are just that well made.

For example, I had a purge a number of years ago and I went for nearly two years with exactly three lights (not including old Mags) - a Photon II microlight on my key ring as a backup, a Streamlight Strion for long throw, and an HDS B42XRGT stock (but unlocked using 250 clicks back door). I used the B42 for 95% of my lighting needs and it met 95% of them. I had a really low low for nighttime around the house, one level about set at an Arc AAA level, one set at the LSHP level, and max. In fact I sold my AAAs and LSHP at that time as the HDS covered all those bases. With higher powered LED's short of a HID I could dispense with the Strion these days.

If pushed I could do that again - and if forced to pick only one I would probably get a Clicky 170 and would be just fine for the huge majority of needs I have.

The only knock I have on the HDS/Ra lights is their size - and while the Arc4+ was similarly sized the form factor made it feel, kind of like the E1, smaller than it was. The original HDS and Novatac lights are chunky, and the Clicky is even chunkier. That is really a big reason I haven't upgraded to a Clicky is that it's even bigger than my 120P which pushes the limits for an EDC light in my work environment. I would trade a bit of the ruggedness for a more pocketable version. Having said that, I never dropped my Arc but did drop both my HDS's as well as my 85P Novatac and they survived admirably. But I have not challenged the build quality to even approaching their tolerances, and given a few foot drop once every several years and pocket carry I'll roll the dice that even a slightly less bomb proof version would serve me well.

But absent that - I'll put up with a bit of size for the UI and reliability.

Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?

recDNA said:

I seldom see used ones on the Marketplace and when I do they are still expensive.

My main concern is brightness. Does it draw 1.4 amps or more? If not it simply cannot be as bright as some less expensive yet very functional and bombproof flashlights. I still don't think it is bright enough for the difference in price.

I don't care about programming it. As long as it has a low and high I'm satisfied. The low can be 1 lumen or 20 - I don't care but for over $100 I'd like max to be in the high 200 lumen range. (over 250 otf on IMR16340)

I understand the light is beloved here so I don't post in the "I love my HDS thread" out of respect but this seems to be the thread to discuss such things...in fairness though...I also don't get spending a ton on a Rolex when my Seiko keeps time more accurately.

I'm really not trying to aggravate anyone. I just can't see why this light is worth so much money.

Click to expand...

So don't buy one, simple.

Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?

I want to echo all the positives above: I too went cheaper and chased lumens and comprimised. then, in a moment of clarity, I fianlly bought one... I curse the day.

Then another, then another and now have seven of them between the twistys and clicky's... Out of all of them, I prefer the 140 clicky wide with the executive programming and tactical switch. I re-programmed mine to be at low from on, then double click medium with press and hold the standard high mode. Triple click gets me a beacon.

And that's just it, I can do that, and anything else I want with the light... recessed tail cap, different bezels, clip options.

It's an incredible light on so many levels that it's easy to say it's just like any other light out there because the amount of flexibility you get with this light also makes it that much more seamless and unassuming.

They were never designed to be the biggest, badest, or brightest.. In fact, Henry has written much about what the ideal level of light is that one "really' needs. It's true. Sure, I like lumens sometimes, but not as much as my HDS at 13 lumens, or even .02 lumens. For EDC, relaibility and flexibility along with usability reign supreme.

There are definitely brighter lights out there and ones whose quality is on par, maybe they even have as many levels as well. but very few, if any, that can do so many things as well as or better than the hds and carry the type of warranty and service that HDS provides. I have not found that light yet, but I continue to look anyway.

Anyway, blah blah blah blah blah... so I'm and HDS guy and am blinded by my love of the clicky, true. So I'll leave you with this bit of advice that will apply to any light you buy...

Unless you need the absolute power (and some do) usable runtime trumps max lumens any day of the week, especially usable, regulated runtime that tells you how much time you have left.

The last bit is this: The folks on CPF are a skeptical, detailed, and hard to please bunch and it takes a lot to get them excited about a light, any light; few lights generate enough buzz to dominate the searches... thay have to be that good (or bad).

Don't doubt what you've read!!! The light has so much written about it for a reason.

Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?

If the highest level of lumens out the front (and HDS is a real number out the front, not inflated) then you should look elsewhere as there are other lights out there with higher total output. No question.

You have to pick what matters to you. I do think it is interesting to note, however, that of the production and semi production lights that harbor the most loyal fanbases (Surefire, HDS/Ra and McGizmo who given the steady output of consistent models I'll call semi production) none of them is at the top of the total lumen output heap.

I suppose you choose your business model - rather than chasing the highest output, some choose to make very reliable, well engineered, very well made lights that perform at or better than advertised/spec and will withstand a good bit of use/abuse. Some choose to produce smaller runs at a faster pace to keep up with the latest technology. There is nothing wrong really with either approach - but if forced to choose one light on which to hang my hat in a pinch, I'll take a Surefire, Ra or McGizmo over a Fenix any day of the week.

Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?

I guess it's like cars.

A well engineered, well built car (I dunno, Bimmer say?) vs say a pocket rocket (Mazda Speed 3) or other muscle car (Ford Mustang).

The Bimmer is not the fastest, nor cheapest, but it is much better in other ways. Perhaps that is a reasonable comparison?