Killing Linux won't be this cheap

PhotonBoy

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 11, 2003
Messages
3,304
Location
Annapolis Valley, Nova Scotia, Canada http://tinyu
Killing Linux won\'t be this cheap

Microsoft and Be Inc. reach $23.3 million settlement

"SEATTLE -- Microsoft Corp. agreed on Friday to pay $23.3 million to Mountain View, Calif.-based Be Inc. to settle that company's antitrust lawsuit against the Redmond software giant.

Microsoft admits no wrongdoing under the settlement. The company did not disclose further details...."
 

Charles Bradshaw

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Messages
2,495
Location
Mansfield, OH
Re: Killing Linux won\'t be this cheap

Microsoft's exclusionary OEM contracts are what does it, as in the BeOS case (and many others).

Microsoft has been trying to exterminate Linux for quite a while now, with no success.
 

FlashlightOCD

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Messages
931
Location
Central FL, USA
Re: Killing Linux won\'t be this cheap

Microsoft does need to fear Linux, I've found it remarkable how Linux has developed over the last several years. At one time is was strictly for computer geeks, incredibly difficult to install, and configuring your peripherals was very tough. It was virtually worthless as a desktop machine.

Redhat Linux is as easy to install as MS Windows now days, and the KDE/Gnome desktops are very user friendly.
 

Saaby

Flashaholic
Joined
Jun 17, 2002
Messages
7,447
Location
Utah
Re: Killing Linux won\'t be this cheap

Hardware on Linux is still a PITA, but no worse, I'd say, than Windows 3.11.
 

_mike_

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 14, 2003
Messages
1,198
Location
Wa. State
Re: Killing Linux won\'t be this cheap

Actually, with all due respect. I think several of the Linux distributions have far and away exceeded Windows 3.1 for hardware. In fact, I would say that RedHat, Mandrake, Xandros, SuSe (to name a few) do a very nice job of detecting and properly configuring hardware.

I've ran RedHat, Xandros, Vector, Libranet, Debian, Damn Small, Gentoo, Knoppix, Slackware on my machine all with very little problems. The easiest and most Windows-like to install and configure was Xandros. But the others were not too terribly problematic.....well, their last couple of releases anyhow.

In fact Windows XP never was able to use my Creative Sound Blaster Live Value sound card no matter what I did. The Linux distro's all had no problems.

mike
 

X-CalBR8

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 14, 2001
Messages
1,098
Location
TN, USA
Re: Killing Linux won\'t be this cheap

What will be the trump card for Linux is when they get the DirectX support worked out. Then the gamers and musicians will all want to flock to Linux. It's encouraging to watch the progress of such projects as Wine on that front. I'm afraid that without the DirectX support that Microsoft just simply has too much monopoly power in the home market for Linux to fully compete there.

Of course a situation like this could just change overnight if the graphics card manufacturers got together with the game programmers and came up with a new and open standard that would compete directly with DirectX and start making newer games duel compatible with the new standard and the old DirectX. I believe this to be the best business route for a quick displacement of Microsoft in the home computer market.

When a person can just go to the nearest chain store and buy the latest and greatest video game and have it run faithfully on Linux, then watch out Microsoft because your days will be numbered.
 

_mike_

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 14, 2003
Messages
1,198
Location
Wa. State
Re: Killing Linux won\'t be this cheap

Yeah......once they Linux distro's get to that point they'll do very well. However, another problem is cropping up. That's Digital Rights Management for Microsoft Office products. This will create problems, read all about it here


If MS succeeeds with this plan...watch out.

mike
 

X-CalBR8

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 14, 2001
Messages
1,098
Location
TN, USA
Re: Killing Linux won\'t be this cheap

Yeah, and then there is the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) factor to consider which practically makes reverse engineering illegal now days. Boy am I glad that they didn't have the DMCA back in the early 80s or else we would all be using one brand of computer made by one manufacturer now.

If the Linux groups don't play their cards right on reverse engineering DirectX then Microsoft will have the ammunition that they need to sue them off the face of the planet. All Microsoft is looking for is the tiniest little excuse to carry them to court and then they will keep it tied up in litigation till they run out of cash. Microsoft just loves to use that tactic.
 

X-CalBR8

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 14, 2001
Messages
1,098
Location
TN, USA
Re: Killing Linux won\'t be this cheap

Well, if DRM really does catch on here and get's too oppressive, I guess I will start importing more stuff straight from China where they are working against such measures recently by designing and manufacturing their own CPUs and now they have announced a joint venture with Japan to write their own operating system, just to not have to be forced to deal with Microsoft anymore and to keep a free OS. Funny how bad things have gotten in this so called "free country" that now I'm having to consider buying my future computer equipment from China just to stay free. And all this time, the news reporters have been telling us that the Chinese were the oppressors of the world. *Sheesh*
 

_mike_

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 14, 2003
Messages
1,198
Location
Wa. State
Re: Killing Linux won\'t be this cheap

Computing and the Internet is going to get split. The MS way where they can do anything they want as long as it's all using MS "stuff".

The there will be everybody else who use whatever.
 

PhotonBoy

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 11, 2003
Messages
3,304
Location
Annapolis Valley, Nova Scotia, Canada http://tinyu
Re: Killing Linux won\'t be this cheap

Possibly the world will snapshot the MS Office formats recognized by Sun's StarOffice and OpenOffice. At that point, the continual upgrade path enforced by MS may stall, limiting their ability to lock-in users.
 

Charles Bradshaw

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Messages
2,495
Location
Mansfield, OH
Re: Killing Linux won\'t be this cheap

Many people don't play these latest and greatest games, if any games on computers. Typical home use for many, is surfing, word processing, email, maybe IRC, possibly some spreadsheet for budgeting, some need a finance program (gnucash).

Linux would do very well in the home. Mandrake Linux sets up Roadrunner with ease and all you do is supply a valid host name (mycomp.xyz.rr.com, where xyz is the region). You do need an ethernet nic, not a usb nic (not supported).
 

X-CalBR8

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 14, 2001
Messages
1,098
Location
TN, USA
Re: Killing Linux won\'t be this cheap

Well, I would agree that there are a lot of adults that own home computers that could care less about the latest and greatest games out there, but they will almost always have some kids/teenagers that will and will demand an OS that will allow them to play the same games that all of their friends are playing. This is why, in my opinion, that Linux will not stand a fair chance of competing toe-to-toe with Microsoft in the home market till they get near 100% compatibility with DirectX.

Most business computers are expected to only run a very few applications all day long and that's why Linux is such a great option for businesses because if they have a program that can do everything that they want to do during the day, then that's all they really need. The home market, however, *has* to be many times more versatile than this. Adults will need to be able to run their business applications, surf the web, etc., but the kids and teenagers will also want to use the family computer to play games with all of their friends.

Don't get me wrong, I want Linux to kick Microsoft's butt and run them out of business, the same way that Microsoft has run 100's of other companies out of business, but first Linux will have to become just as versatile as Microsoft is now and I believe that it is becoming very close to doing just that. Again, the key here is to capture the gaming end of the market because Linux is already able to compete toe-to-toe with Microsoft in all other arenas. Once this last great hurtle is overcome, Linux will be poised to become the #1 OS in the world.
 

James S

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Messages
5,078
Location
on an island surrounded by reality
Re: Killing Linux won\'t be this cheap

X-CalBR8, what you say about the 2 OS's is funny because it's exactly the opposite of how I precieve the issue /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I would have said that is Windows and not Linux that is designed to sit and run 2 or 3 programs (word, outlook and sometimes Excell) in a carefully controled and isolated corporate environment. It's only when you put it into a home environment and expect it to connect to the internet and run lots of different programs and games that it actually fails miserably to keep up.

90% of the (non-game) application makers already do a Mac port of their software. They know that even 5% of that big a market makes them money after paying for the port. They will do the same thing for Linux. The problem is a bit of a catch 22, they won't write the software until there is a large enough installed base (you notice I don't say Market Share because this is a measure of how many machiens of the different kinds were sold in the last quarter and not a measure of how many are actualy in use) It's also a function of the tools that are available to develop for those systems. If someone would write a visual basic or Visual C++ type development environment for Linux it would be easier for them to do those software ports and where it made some business sense they would do it.

Oh wait /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif There IS such a thing. It's called REALbasic and they just announced that the next version will cross compile to Mac Windows and Linux!

I've been using it for cross platform Mac/Windows development for several years now and am looking forward to the linux target. I don't use the windows one much, but I'll definitely use the Linux one.
 

X-CalBR8

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 14, 2001
Messages
1,098
Location
TN, USA
Re: Killing Linux won\'t be this cheap

The reason that I say that Linux is not yet ready to compete with Windows on the gaming front is that practically all new games, especially 3d games, are programed to run on DirectX. A few will run on Wine under Linux, but the compatibility is still very very low right now, but it is improving, so it is something to definitely keep an eye on.

So far as gaming on a Mac goes, you are right that most of the *major* games get a port to Mac, but they usually only do this with nothing the most high grossing blockbuster games. Most of the games that I own have no Mac port at all. Also, the Mac port is almost always released significantly later than the Windows port, sometimes more than a year later. For kids wanting to play the latest and greatest new game releases that all of their friends have, this delay is totally unacceptable and that is why over 90% of homes are still running Windows, because of this gaming monopoly.

If you go into most any computer store (and especially chain stores) today and look at the Mac games section, you will find that it comprises only about 10% that of the games that are designed to run under Windows. A lot of big chain stores (non-computer specific stores) don't even have a Mac or Linux section at all! I would like this very much to change, but facts are facts. Windows pretty well controls the PC gaming market, lock stock and barrel.

That is why I said that in order for Linux (or even Mac) to compete toe-to-toe with Windows, this must change somehow. The best solution that I can see happening in the future is for the 2 big 3d graphics card manufactures to get together with some of the major games manufactures and create an open games programming standard to directly compete with DirectX that will work on Windows, Linux or Mac so that versions of games for all 3 platforms would be a breeze to port to.

If you've kept up with the news over the last few years, Microsoft has done everything in it's power to keep just this scenario from happening. I could go into a long tirade and discuss some of the dirty little tricks that they've used over the years to keep this from happening, but that would be another very long post unto itself. Suffice to say, Microsoft is a crooked monopoly and it will be nice to see the competition take it down.
 

Charles Bradshaw

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Messages
2,495
Location
Mansfield, OH
Re: Killing Linux won\'t be this cheap

James S;

Thanks for the Real Basic link! I bookmarked it for later perusal. I am a dyed in the wool Basic programmer. My love for random access files causes me to rule out many implementations of Basic, including XBasic, which seems to be stuck in the reel-to-reel Mag Tape days (sequential only). The Basic I loved for MSDOS was ZBasic PC/32 from 32 Bit Software in Ft. Worth, Texas.

If you want something similar to VB in Linux, try Kylix from Borland. It is Object Pascal w/RAD environment and superfast compiler.
 

James S

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Messages
5,078
Location
on an island surrounded by reality
Re: Killing Linux won\'t be this cheap

X-CalBR8: I agree completely with what you said about games. Sorry, meant to address that separately but never got back around to it. I have played several of the top games that were ported to the Mac, they were great, but there aren't as many of them.

It used to be easier to port PC games to the Mac as they were all OpenGL based and MacOS has a really good OpenGL implementation shipped with the OS now. But we know that MS gets hives when anything is used that has an Open in the name and did their best to break OpenGL on windows and made everyone use DirectX which is not easily portable to anything.

I wasn't going to turn it into a Mac vs PC thread, I was just trying to point out that as the installed base grows it makes good sense for them to do it and was using the Mac 5% or thereabouts figure as an example of how low it can be and still be profitable for the game company to do the work.

The other interesting thing about the lower level code, if they code to OpenGL then the Mac and Linux ports of the game will use probably 90% of the exact same code. So if you're going to do one it makes easy sense to do the other. This effectively doubles the installed base that you can sell to by doing the port.

Some companies will never get it, but others will see the money to be made there and port their games or whatever to both alternative platforms!

Charles: If you liked Object Pascal you're going to like the REALbasic language a lot. It's fully object oriented basic and very nice in my book. The ability to push a button and have exactly the same program running on Windows or Mac is fantastic. For most things it actually works that way too. I don't know about random access files. You can set the position within the file to read or write to, but it's not specifically implemented that way though you could easily build some subclasses to implement that behavior.

I don't know how useful it would be for porting 3D games as they are mostly written in other languages, but it does have a very good 3D control based on a different open source renderer than OpenGL, but there are OpenGL controls available as well.

If you download their demo and have any questions or things to say about it, feel free to drop me a note to my email address in my profile. I've been using it for years and would be happy to share. Just about all the shareware on my website is written with it.
 

Bill.H

Enlightened
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
630
Location
Maine USA
Re: Killing Linux won\'t be this cheap

MS may want Linux to go away, but don't forget it's the Unix people that are filing the huge court cases these days.

Windows wins on the game front without any doubt. But games are very small potatoes compared to corporate desktops. THAT is where the real money is.

IMO, Sun is the one who should be scared of Linux, they can get hurt a lot more by it than MS can. The same can be said for Apple.
 
Top