6P as a dive light?

This is taken from the "true story" section on surefire's website.....

Dive Rescue
I have an older SureFire 6P that has accompanied me just about everywhere. As Police Detective and member of a regional Dive Rescue and Underwater Crime Scene unit, a reliable light must always be at hand. While conducting an underwater search for weapons used in a crime, the bulb in my dive light failed. I resorted to my 6P, and even under twenty feet of water it worked flawlessly! Your flashlights are first-rate quality and the best choice for public safety professionals.

Phil B., Police Detective, Newbury, NH, USA

Maybe a 6PN, but it's not unheard of for a run-of-the-mill 6P. When the tailcap is tightened down completely, the tailcap switch can seal up and be watertight. The threads on the head have to be lubed up pretty well also.

Someone just posted a story where their 6PN failed at less then dive depths.
Disappointing 6PN story

There are more stories I've heard of SureFires being used in the wet and working great (people often don't realise they aren't rated waterproof) then stories of SureFires leaking.

If you think about it, a SureFire that works is not a story compared to a SureFire that doesn't perform.

The concentration of negative feedback on the internet or directed at a customer service department is not representative product performance. What it does allow you to do is find out what is important to a user. What makes the user take the time and effort?
It's important to evaluate data rather than emotions.

Most SureFires are designed to be able to be certified waterproof.

Al

I'm one of the ones who fairly regularly takes Surefire to task for not certifying their products in general as waterproof or at least minimally water-resistant.

As a boater/diver, it's important to me, so I get a bit worked up about it. (Note - my Surefire lights generally don't even come on the boat because of this - Pelicans or UKE all around, and yes, it does annoy me that I don't even feel comfortable bringing the SF's on board).

Surefires MAY work just fine when doused or immersed, and they MAY NOT. Many work just dandy, as Size15s noted, but Surefire is pretty clear that you shouldn't go around counting on that. For me, a flashlight that I can't count on is worse than not having one. Thus, the SF's stay at home in the rain or when I'm heading for water.

I know SF has plenty to worry about in their engineering, but this seems like a huge miss to me in a premium light - similarly, I think quite poorly of 'premium' watches that you have to take off before washing your hands. Could you hold your 6p in your hands while washing them and expect that it will work afterwards? Maybe - Surefire says don't count on it.

I don't think SF lights should all be dive-rated, but I sure think they should be designed to meet at least the none-too-demanding immersion standard for many marine electronics - immersed to one meter for 30 minutes. Ask Surefire if their lights can be counted on to perform after 30 minutes in 3 feet of water - their answer 'except for the 'N' lights - no.'

Even my $12 Mini-m*g promises better, and several have indeed come back from a night in 8-10 feet of salt water. I love the SF products, and think they make a fantastic light in every other respect - I just don't see a reason why they shouldn't be dependably water-resistant at a minimum level, and that if they failed under such undemanding circumstances, to have it covered under warranty.

I have had my 6P (very old model) under water several times. I do not dive, but I used to tie it to some strong fishing line, and lower it down to get a better look at what was under there. Probably only about 5 feet, but I never had any trouble with it. I guess I was just lucky.
David <><

One way I just thought of to increase the water tightness of Surefires is to add Teflon tape (a thread sealing tape) to the bezel and tailcap. If you turn the tailcap a lot, as in useing the constant on feature, it will wear out the tape, and you'll have to replace it more frequently, but if you just use the button, it should last. Just replace it every time you change the batteries for the switch end (assuming you take off the tailcap to replace the batteries), and the tape at the bezel when replacing the lamp.

Threads are not an issue. Lens/bezel seal is.

yup...its the lens seal that has given problems in all the surefires i've had that leaked. the other seals are no more likely to leak than those on a UKE or pelican dive light.

Most SureFire lights don't have a "seal" for the lens in the bezel, only a retaining ring.

Apply a very thin bead of silicone caulking or sealant around the lens. Better yet, take out the lens, apply the silicone, then put the lens in so it seals and holds it in place. If you ever need to replace the lens, it will come out and the silicone and be scraped off with a finger nail. If it's the lexan lens, the you'll have to put it where the lens meets the metal. Just make it thin enough that it doesn't block the light output.

Well, I was "that guy" who posted the about the defective 6PN in this thread.

In summary, I took a factory-new 6PN on a 70 min. dive in 45 feet of ocean. Best as I can tell, the integrity of the seal around the tailcap failed, not the front end. BTW, the label on 6PN shipping boxes indicate water-resistance to 30 meters.

I sent my 6PN back to SF for repair. And at this point, I cannot get any information from Tech Support as to what caused the failure. The only answer I'm getting is that they will replace the 6PN as soon as they get them in stock ("when that is" is another question altogether).

Prior to returning it to Surefire for repair, I compared the leaky-6PN with a tested 6PN. The primary difference was the tried-and-true 6PN had a second O-ring protecting the tailcap, the leaky-6PN only one O-ring. (Note: the leaky-6PN was purchased by me from Strategos, but drop-shipped to me directly from Surefire).

N-certified lights aside, I agree with Deanster to the extent that premium lights like a Surefire should all come with a minimal water-resistance rating--say 1 meter for 30 minutes. It should not be a gamble, where "some do" and "some don't" retain water-resistance.

"yup...its the lens seal that has given problems in all the surefires i've had that leaked. the other seals are no more likely to leak than those on a UKE or pelican dive light."

Perhaps an expert in o-rings has a different opinion, but I disagree. The o-rings in Surefires all seem lightweight and small (especially the ones at the tailcap), and don't engage firmly, compared to those on Pelicans or other 'water-friendly' lights. Those engage firmly enough that I sometimes have difficulty pulling the bezel off the o-ring after the threads are disengaged (due to both the pressure of the o-ring, and the vacuum created by unscrewing the bezel). Not true at all of SF's o-rings.

I fully understand that Surefire is trying to do several things at once, providing the 'tactical' switch, lots of interchangability, etc., and this makes a light with 5 points of entry for water (lens/bezel interface, bezel/body interface, body/tailcap, tailcap/tail button, and tail button/battery tube - at least on my G2, all have an o-ring, except for tailcap/button, where the rubber covering for the button has a flange that seats in a channel inside the tailcap - only engaged when the switch isn't depressed.).

Most dive lights have only one (occasionally two) possible point of entry (bezel/body interface and sometimes a switch as well) - and they can spend all their attention on that.

Anyway - I think that 10% more effort to make the things water resistant on SF's part would yield major dividends. The bezel and switch are the first places to look, and then the two ends of the body.

i didn't mean to say that the seals on surefires are as robust as those on dive lights, just that if properly maintained, they shouldn't leak. of course if you want to beef up the water-resistance on a surefire, installing thicker O-rings should do the job. my main beef with surefires is still the way which the lens is sealed, which has been a hit and miss thing. i've had good luck with the lexan bezels though.

beretta: if i'm not wrong there should be a rubber gasket below the lens.

Perhaps we can all avoid a lot of grief by just using dive lights for diving, instead of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole by insisting on using surefires. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif
My UK lights have performed flawlessly for me, on dives past 100 feet, and they are much more suitable for diving.

I agree that using a SureFire (any of them) as a dive light is asking a bit much. But, and this is a big but IMO, they are marketed as tactical lights for police and military. They will be exposed to harsh weather, to include massive rainstorms, dunkings, river crossings, being dropped in puddles, being carried in the outside pocket while doing water/boat ops, etc. They all should be able to handle at least a couple of meters without leaking.