XM-L Reflectors & Optics

LilKevin715

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Here is a quick comparison of different types of P60 reflectors on a XM-L. I thought it might be useful to anyone interested in different types of beam patterns, building their own modules, etc.

Shots are underexposed to show the hotspot better, light is about 0.5m away from the wall.

1) Solarforce XP-G SMO
2) Solarforce XM-L SMO
3) XP-G OP (modified)
4) Thrunite XM-L OP
5) XR-E OP
6) XR-E SMO

Observations:

1) Solarforce XP-G SMO Reflector
Good amount of throw due to the deeper reflector from the Solarforce module. There is one transition step from hotspot to spill.

2) Solarforce XM-L SMO Reflector
Highest amount of throw (hotspot lux) I have seen for a P60 XM-L reflector. There is a faint clover/petal pattern from hotspot to spill.

3) XP-G OP Reflector (modified)
Medium beam with decent hotspot. Transition from hotspot to spill is VERY smooth.

4) Thrunite XM-L OP Reflector
Very floody beam due to the short reflector depth. Large fuzzy hotspot with lots of spill.

5) XR-E OP Reflector
Floody but useful beam. Hotspot is decent and lots of spill.

6) XR-E SMO Reflector
Similar to XR-E OP but with higher lux/intensity. The transition from hotspot to spill was interesting, almost like a bullseye target.


Conclusion:
XR-E reflectors for floody beam, XP-G reflectors for medium beam. Irreguardless of reflector choice the XM-L in a P60 form factor will be floody in nature due to the larger emitter size.
 
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LilKevin715

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Re: XM-L P60 Reflectors

Updated images have been uploaded since the original pictures were not linked correctly due to the forum crash. I've also added 2 more reflectors into the mix as well as some additional insight.
 

Al Combs

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Re: XM-L P60 Reflectors

Hey thanks for the beamshots. I missed this thread the first time around. Glad you decided to update it.
 

HarryN

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XM-L (cree) Optics and Reflectors Thread

Hi, I would have imagined that someone has already created a thread to accumulate information on various optics and reflectors for the Cree XM-L, but I could not find it.

If not, then please feel free to post information, links, etc for any reflectors or optics you know of for the Cree XM-L. It would be handy to find beam shots, etc. as well.

I don't use this LED much, but I have been asked to consider doing a project using this LED, so any information / links you have would be helpful.

EDIT - well it turns out that someone had in fact started an XM-L reflector and optics thread - I just missed it. Thanks to DM51 for merging these threads.

Thanks

HarryN
 
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videoman

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Re: XM-L (cree) Optics and Reflectors Thread

What beam angle does your project require ? as I have spent many hours looking for available optics and reflectors for the XM-L. Ledil has only a few for that led. I have used optics and reflectors made for the Cree MC-E with very good results as the size would fit without modification to the optic/reflector. As an example, for a nice even floody beam, I used a Khatod KCLP1278CR square reflector (almost impossible to find) that works perfectly for my projects that require a floody beam. For a tighter beam, I tried a Ledil CMC series made for the MC-E and they also worked perfectly. I always get my leds on a 20mm star as it gives me plenty of room to solder and fit the optic/reflector easily. Not really for flashlights but if you need a fixture/lamp or housing, they may do nicely, are cheap and readily available (except the Khatod). I know that Ledil has the Boom reflectors made for the MC-E and I Imagine that they will also work fine as I will purchase a few for my XM-L projects. Carlco by now should have at least a few since the XM-L came out a while ago. Same story there, as I would think that any optic/reflector made for the P7 Seoul or the MC-E should give satisfactory results, perhaps not 100% perfect but that is what we have now to work with. I hope that many varieties will be available soon made just for the XM-L since it is an extremely popular led.
 

HarryN

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Re: XM-L (cree) Optics and Reflectors Thread

Hi, thanks for the replies.

My part of the project is the "star" portion. I have been using some fairly decent thermal path MCPCB's that I have for Rebels and have been asked to do one for a single XM-L style "star" board.

The "star" I have in mind is similar, but not identical in shape to the conventional ones and it has some custom hole locations. What I have not been given is what the optics decision is going to be, so I am proactively gathering up information on the existing optic / reflector options and will attempt to design around those. Hopefully, I will choose the right ones. :whistle:

Of course, the more reflectors and optics I can consider, the better the odds of being correct.

Please don't ask me to find out more, it is just easier at this point to make sure it fits whatever is commonly used. BTW, if you have some favorite optics, please list them here. (this thread)

If you need something special in a star, or have an interference problems, let me know in this thread

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-and-other-shapes-General-Information-Thread&

and I will try to accomodate in this design.
 
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Toaster79

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Re: XM-L (cree) Optics and Reflectors Thread

My favorite is Ledil LXP-RS. All you need to do is to enlarge the hole in the holder so the dome fits in.
2x-xm-l-foto_10208904_17425213_18662572.jpg

Also modified Regina is a good thrower but I don't have any beamshots available. Ledil Iris has some great throw too with decent flood, but it's rather large and heavy.
 

HarryN

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Re: XM-L (cree) Optics and Reflectors Thread

Thanks for that info and the pictures. I can see why you like those setups.

Do you happen to have any pictures of how you did the board / lens interface ? The lens holders seem to assume that the top of the PCB is perfectly flat vs. the reality that there are wires, solder pads, and fasteners involved.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Thanks

Harry
 

surfbark

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Re: XM-L (cree) Optics and Reflectors Thread

Keeping an eye on this thread as I am interested in learning more about this topic... Trying to learn all I can before I start a flood light project!!
 

videoman

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Re: XM-L (cree) Optics and Reflectors Thread

Flood light project ? here's a few suggestions for the wider beam, not necessarily for flashlights.
I kind of narrowed the optics/reflectors to just a handful of useful ones that work great on a 20mm star with the XM-L.
Carclo 20mm series of optics have the holder that fits nice on the star with plenty of space for the solder blob to not interfere with the holder alignment.They have optics made for the XM-L, just a hassle finding who has em' in stock.
Ledil CMC square optic holders made for the MC-E ( but will also accomodate the XM-L if you "eye it" to lie centered ) must be shaved off a bit at the bottom, a Dremel tool or rat-tail file will do. Not the optic, just the holder as the optic comes off the holder when you do the filing part on the holder.I often use the optic and forget using the holder altogether but you have to use Arctic Alumna ADHESIVE at the bottom of the optic (very little of it), wait till that dries and then put a bit more around the outside circumference at the bottom of the optic to cement it firmly to the star. I find this way gives a lot of room to solder around.You just have to be careful to center the led die by looking directly down on the optic before it dries fast.If it is for a flood optic, I noticed that the exact centering is not that crucial but try to get it as close as possible.The only problem with cementing them is that you cannot change the optics as opposed to using the holder where you can just pry the optic out and replace it with any other in the CMC series.Ledil also have the BOOM reflectors made for the MC-E and I used the wide one with great success on an XM-L as the beam was around 45 degrees. Optics made for the XP-E and XR-E are too small to fit the XM-L onto, and drilling them to fit would be a risky attempt as it will make the optic not perform correctly with the XM-L. I really like the Ledil Booms a lot, easy to find (Digikey, Cutter etc.). Check out Fraen also and see what they have as well as Khatod's offerings. Just wondering why there are not many Khatod suppliers.
 

surfbark

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Re: XM-L (cree) Optics and Reflectors Thread

Well this is an embarrassing typo for my first post!! I didn't mean Flood.... I meant Spot with maybe some decent close up spill light!!! I don't want to hijack this thread so I probably should start another anyway... but I am enjoying all that I am learning reading and appreciate Videoman for posting up so much info!!

I am trying to mimic this lamp
watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3HolVrSzd8&feature=player_detailpage

for my remote controlled spot light
 

HarryN

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Re: XM-L (cree) Optics and Reflectors Thread

Videoman - If you don't mind, can you post some example pictures of how you mounted the various optics and reflectors in this thread ? As I look at the various stars and optics, I see a lot of potential for mechanical interference, especially if you screw down the star. Especially some of the LEDIL optics for the xm-l seem to be almost designed to be in the way of the star. I am guessing that I am somehow missing just how some of these are supposed to work.

Surfbark - if your desire for info relates in the most remote way to the XM-L and optics, I think it is fine to post info and questions here.
Harry
 

aae55555

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Re: XM-L (cree) Optics and Reflectors Thread

@Harry - any pics of how you mounted the Carclo 10267 side emitting optic to the XM-L?

I've ordered the XM-L's on a round aluminium mpcb and I'm starting to think this could be a problem now :(

Thanks
 

videoman

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Re: XM-L (cree) Optics and Reflectors Thread

Harry, I will try to post a few shots as soon as I figure out how to post photos, as I never posted any before. I know exactly what the issue is with mounting the optics/lenses onto the stars. Carclo holders are the easiest I find in my opinion as they most readily fit the standard star 6 hole placement and allow the solder blob to have adequate space to lie under the holder without any interferrence. I noticed that the Ledil holders, especially the 21mm square ones lie flat and you have to kind of Dremmel out 2 cavities under them so that the solder blob has room. I have asked the same question in the past and there was no clear answer either from the led suppliers (how would they know?) and in these forums as the stars most readily lend themselves to be adapted easily to flashlight with reflector use.I have taken the Dremmel route. It seems like ultra flat wiring may work, but even then it would have some sort of thickness with the solder however small.No dice.If I am using the Ledil optics, I do not use the holder at all, all I do is take the optic, apply a small amount of glue just so that it stays, wait till that glue dries good and then apply a larger amount of glue ON THE OUTSIDE perimeter of the optic where the optic touches the star. I find it is better to solder the star leads FIRST and then do the optic glueing part later, the last step would be to glue down the star/optic set to the heatsink you have. All of this I am assuming is not really for a flashlight but for a lamp/fixture.
 

HarryN

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Re: XM-L (cree) Optics and Reflectors Thread

@Harry - any pics of how you mounted the Carclo 10267 side emitting optic to the XM-L?

I've ordered the XM-L's on a round aluminium mpcb and I'm starting to think this could be a problem now :(

Thanks

Hi, I mostly use multi die rebel stars and custom boards, so interestingly the problems of mechanical interference are much smaller. There are no free lunches, just trade offs when using multiple LED setups vs. one larger package and one optical path. Nonetheless, in this case I didn't pick the overall approach, I am just helping out.

I have not tried that Carclo optic, but will look at it. Which star combination did you buy ? Do you have a link for it?

I have been looking at a variety of stars and optic / reflector combinations lately, along with another CPFr to get a few heads around this challenge. If it were just a few hobby flashlights it would be a non issue, as you can always "file to fit", but this really needs to work in reasonable volumes.

At this point, I have pretty much given up on finding an existing star board that will work and am laying out a custom one that is more accomodating to the project needs. Even with a fully custom design layout (and being willing to ignore some typical star features) this isn't all that easy.

The only fixed feature is 20mm nominal size and either an XM-L or MC-E on it and great thermals. (so two layouts). Yes, in spite of the data sheets and marketing, the MC-E still manages to be quite competitive under the harsh glow of the integrating sphere meter.
 
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HarryN

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Re: XM-L (cree) Optics and Reflectors Thread

Harry, I will try to post a few shots as soon as I figure out how to post photos, as I never posted any before. I know exactly what the issue is with mounting the optics/lenses onto the stars. Carclo holders are the easiest I find in my opinion as they most readily fit the standard star 6 hole placement and allow the solder blob to have adequate space to lie under the holder without any interferrence. I noticed that the Ledil holders, especially the 21mm square ones lie flat and you have to kind of Dremmel out 2 cavities under them so that the solder blob has room. I have asked the same question in the past and there was no clear answer either from the led suppliers (how would they know?) and in these forums as the stars most readily lend themselves to be adapted easily to flashlight with reflector use.I have taken the Dremmel route. It seems like ultra flat wiring may work, but even then it would have some sort of thickness with the solder however small.No dice.If I am using the Ledil optics, I do not use the holder at all, all I do is take the optic, apply a small amount of glue just so that it stays, wait till that glue dries good and then apply a larger amount of glue ON THE OUTSIDE perimeter of the optic where the optic touches the star. I find it is better to solder the star leads FIRST and then do the optic glueing part later, the last step would be to glue down the star/optic set to the heatsink you have. All of this I am assuming is not really for a flashlight but for a lamp/fixture.

Thanks for that info, I really appreciate it. I figured I was just missing the point or something, but the interferences are exactly as you describe. The links also help clarify the challenge.

I like your idea about adding some kind of insulation to the optic / reflector to prevent shorts. We clearly saw this potential problem on the LEDIL Boom reflector setup. So far, the idea of having to customize each part has not been warmly met, as you can imagine.

This particular application is space constrained, so the star needs to be fastened down first, then soldered / wired in, then the rest of the optical assy added later.

We are looking at wire options, but with currents in the 3 amp range, 20 guage wire seems appropriate. Our initial attempt to flatten the existing wire selection failed, so we might have to look around for that aspect. Perhaps some silicone coated or other creative wire would help.
 

vestureofblood

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Re: XM-L (cree) Optics and Reflectors Thread

Hi Harry,

The reflector with the absolute best beam ( that can be used at 3A) that I have found is the McR reflectors from the shoppe.
 

HarryN

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Re: XM-L (cree) Optics and Reflectors Thread

Hi Harry,

The reflector with the absolute best beam ( that can be used at 3A) that I have found is the McR reflectors from the shoppe.

Thanks for that info. Any chance you have some beam shots that you can post here ?

That reflector has no feet, so I don't expect too many interference problems from that family of products. Did you run into anything like that with the stars you used ?

Of course, it doesn't attach down either, so it requires a clamp down approach.

For convenience, here is a link to the data sheet.

http://dmcleish.com/CPF/reflectors/20pt6-reflector-mm.pdf

Of course, it doesn't attach down either, so it requires a clamp down approach.
 
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