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Thread: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

  1. #31

    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    Thanks HIDblue and Selfbuilt. This must be the case, the physical plastic reverse polarity ring must be the cause. Looking at my BC10 more closely, the black plastic disc for the reverse polarity protection is slightly off centre. The hole is not directly over the raised contact. I may cut a little away or sand it down. I'd like to use it on RCR 123's

    Primaries work fine, no issue, it's just my AW RCR123's. Here's a pic:


  2. #32
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    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    Thanks for the great review!! Was looking for a AA light, your review helped me make up my mind. Jetbeam Backup BA20!!!
    lux mundi

  3. #33

    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    Quote Originally Posted by selfbuilt View Post
    No problems with any of my AW protected RCR or AW IMR cells - all worked fine.

    As an aside, I think these would be good lights to try 3V LiFeP04 cells in, due to the lower nominal voltage (but I don't have any to try).
    Hi all i'm using ultrafire rechargeable protected cell. By right i would need a spacer in order to make contact for my BC10. However I managed to remove the reverse polarity protection ring and i cant fix it back. The ultrafire cr123 cells work for now. But would there be any side effects? Pls advice guys, i'm worried. Thanks lots

  4. #34

    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    Quote Originally Posted by infinite View Post
    Hi all i'm using ultrafire rechargeable protected cell. By right i would need a spacer in order to make contact for my BC10. However I managed to remove the reverse polarity protection ring and i cant fix it back. The ultrafire cr123 cells work for now. But would there be any side effects? Pls advice guys, i'm worried. Thanks lots
    You should be fine without the physical reverse polarity ring - the light should work normally. Just don't put in any cells backwards.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Outdoor 100-yard Beamshots 2011. Latest: V54 Fenix LD50vn.
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  5. #35

    Red face Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    Quote Originally Posted by selfbuilt View Post
    You should be fine without the physical reverse polarity ring - the light should work normally. Just don't put in any cells backwards.
    Thanks for the help selfbuilt. I will take note of the polarity of the cells. I'm a little confuse between using rcr123, icr123 n imr123? is they any link that provide explanation regarding the differences between this cells.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    Quote Originally Posted by infinite View Post
    Thanks for the help selfbuilt. I will take note of the polarity of the cells. I'm a little confuse between using rcr123, icr123 n imr123? is they any link that provide explanation regarding the differences between this cells.
    RCR123 is a general notation for rechargeable CR 123 cell. ICR and IMR is two specific chemistries. The both have a maximum voltage of 4.2 volt. ICR cells has the highest capacity and need a protection circuit, IMR cells can deliver more current, but has less total energy and are always sold without protection circuit (This is the problem if the light discharges the cell fully).
    My website with flashlight, battery and charger information: lygte-info.
    More than 200 battery reviews and 80 charger reviews.
    Compare 18650 LiIon batteries or smaller (RCR123, 16340, 14500, 10450) LiIon batteries.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    i was impress with selfbuilt estimated max lightbox lumens on JB BA20.
    gonna get 1 unit soon.
    nice & solid review again by selfbuilt.
    many thanks.



  8. #38

    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    By the way, my run time on ultrafire RCR123 protected only last about 12 mins and the light starts flashing at the same brightness. Is the ultrafire battery faulty? Or is there a circuit protection from the BC10 itself?

  9. #39

    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    Quote Originally Posted by infinite View Post
    By the way, my run time on ultrafire RCR123 protected only last about 12 mins and the light starts flashing at the same brightness. Is the ultrafire battery faulty? Or is there a circuit protection from the BC10 itself?
    I am not surprised - the BC10 is driven too hard on 3.7V Li-ion to take regular protected RCRs. As I warn in my review, you should only use IMR cells in the BC10 (with standard caveat to be careful not to run them down, as they don't have protection circuits). I don't know what the flashing refers to, as mine didn't do that.

    Simply put, IMO, the maximum safe discharge for a regular Li-ion is only 2C (i.e. 30 mins). It was clear to me from the output that this would drain a regular RCR too quickly, which is why I didn't test on standard protected RCRs. But I am not surprised at the result - although I note that 12 mins translates into 5C, which GREATLY exceeds what a standard Li-ion can handle. This will damage the cell. I have just updated the review with an additional warning now that someone has measured it.

    As always, I recommend folks consult with the battery experts in the "Flashlight Electronics - Batteries Included" sub-forum for more info.
    Last edited by selfbuilt; 06-08-2011 at 09:54 AM.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Outdoor 100-yard Beamshots 2011. Latest: V54 Fenix LD50vn.
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  10. #40

    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    Nice review. Since I'm new to the world of led's, I'll be sticking with the AA nimh variety.
    I'm sure it will be a pleasant surprise/upgrade to my little minimag 2AA led.

    Selfbuilt: have you done a review of the ITP SA2; I'm hanging on the fence between these 2 lights.
    BA20: brighter, simpler operation.
    ITP SA2: low/med/high [infinite mode] output, yet less lumens on high.

    Marc
    Last edited by Marc999; 06-09-2011 at 07:40 AM.

  11. #41

    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc999 View Post
    Selfbuilt: have you done a review of the ITP SA2; I'm hanging on the fence between these 2 lights.
    BA20: brighter, simpler operation.
    ITP SA2: low/med/high [infinite mode] output, yet less lumens on high.
    Yes, but my summary tables are a little different (wasn't using ANSI FL-1 then). The ITP SA2 review shows initial activation values for throw and output.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Outdoor 100-yard Beamshots 2011. Latest: V54 Fenix LD50vn.
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  12. #42

    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    I just ordered a couple lights from Shiningbeam. BA20 and ITP A3 EOS [both xp-g r5 varieties]. I didn't like the idea of paying a buck a battery for cr123's when I have plenty of eneloops at the ready. Perhaps some day i'll venture into the lithium flashlight world.

  13. #43

    Thumbs up Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    I want to thank you "selfbuilt" for all your great reviews. I'm a new member but not new to the forums since I've just been a lurker with the limited amount of time I've had with work schedule. But your reviews have helped me on deciding which torches would be ideal for me with the time I've had to sneak onto here.
    This review is no exception and the BC10 has been one of my best investment in a lower budget light. Keep up the great work. I'm sure there's plenty of members, and non-members, on here who appreciates it just as much but hasn't thanked you for your efforts.

  14. #44

    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    Quote Originally Posted by selfbuilt View Post
    Yes, but my summary tables are a little different (wasn't using ANSI FL-1 then). The ITP SA2 review shows initial activation values for throw and output.
    Hi Selfbuilt, I noticed you keep a fan running when testing runtimes of hi modes in these lights. For my BA20 would I possibly do damage if kept on high mode for over an hour?

    Marc

  15. #45

    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    Quote Originally Posted by _Event_Horizon_ View Post
    I want to thank you "selfbuilt" for all your great reviews.
    Appreciate the support and generous comments. I'm glad you've found the reviews helpful. I strive to provide objective test data to help people in their decision making.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc999 View Post
    Hi Selfbuilt, I noticed you keep a fan running when testing runtimes of hi modes in these lights. For my BA20 would I possibly do damage if kept on high mode for over an hour?
    Should probably be alright - but if left unattended during that time, keep in mind it will be quite hot when you go to pick it up. I typically recommend you you don't run lights that long without some sort of cooling.

    I use a cooling fan for a number of reasons (i.e. safety during testing, increased consistency in relation to variation in ambient room temperature, simulation of hand-holding, etc.). In fact, a fan cools better than hand-holding (where your own circulatory system provides a mechanism to wick away heat from the light). There's an argument to be made for doing runtimes without cooling. But my goal is really to provide as consistent a testing regimen as possible, and one that is feasible for me from a practical standpoint.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Outdoor 100-yard Beamshots 2011. Latest: V54 Fenix LD50vn.
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  16. #46

    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    Quote Originally Posted by selfbuilt View Post
    Should probably be alright - but if left unattended during that time, keep in mind it will be quite hot when you go to pick it up. I typically recommend you you don't run lights that long without some sort of cooling.

    I use a cooling fan for a number of reasons (i.e. safety during testing, increased consistency in relation to variation in ambient room temperature, simulation of hand-holding, etc.). In fact, a fan cools better than hand-holding (where your own circulatory system provides a mechanism to wick away heat from the light). There's an argument to be made for doing runtimes without cooling. But my goal is really to provide as consistent a testing regimen as possible, and one that is feasible for me from a practical standpoint.
    Thanks for the feedback, your review convinced me to try out a BA20. I should be receiving one in a few days, unless they're playing with it at the U.S./Canada border. I just wanted to know if I attach it to my mountain bike and run it on high for extended periods if I would melt / fry the circuitry before the batteries run out. I'll just judge by feel.

    Marc

  17. #47

    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc999 View Post
    I just wanted to know if I attach it to my mountain bike and run it on high for extended periods if I would melt / fry the circuitry before the batteries run out. I'll just judge by feel.
    Ah, that should be fine - the air flow while moving on the bike will do as well (or better) than hand-holding. I doubt you'd have any problems.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Outdoor 100-yard Beamshots 2011. Latest: V54 Fenix LD50vn.
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  18. #48

    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    Quote Originally Posted by selfbuilt View Post
    I am not surprised - the BC10 is driven too hard on 3.7V Li-ion to take regular protected RCRs. As I warn in my review, you should only use IMR cells in the BC10 (with standard caveat to be careful not to run them down, as they don't have protection circuits). I don't know what the flashing refers to, as mine didn't do that.

    Simply put, IMO, the maximum safe discharge for a regular Li-ion is only 2C (i.e. 30 mins). It was clear to me from the output that this would drain a regular RCR too quickly, which is why I didn't test on standard protected RCRs. But I am not surprised at the result - although I note that 12 mins translates into 5C, which GREATLY exceeds what a standard Li-ion can handle. This will damage the cell. I have just updated the review with an additional warning now that someone has measured it.

    As always, I recommend folks consult with the battery experts in the "Flashlight Electronics - Batteries Included" sub-forum for more info.
    Hi selfbuilt, many great thanks for your advice and reply. I don't really understand how you translate it into 5C? I did another test running the BC10 at low mode brightness with RCR123 and it managed to last 55mins on the stop watch. It felt pretty hot to touch, and I was wondering if it would cause any damage to the led chip? And lastly ICR battery do not have protected circuit so if I deplete it completely the voltage will drop to 0V. Why would most people recommend the battery to be thrown away? Is it because the battery cant hold any more charge well?

  19. #49

    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    Quote Originally Posted by infinite View Post
    Hi selfbuilt, many great thanks for your advice and reply. I don't really understand how you translate it into 5C?
    By using a very simple metric of working back from time. For a 750mAh battery (as many RCRs are rated), a 1C discharge rate would mean that the cell provides a current of 750mA for one hour (*under ideal conditions*). 2C discharge would mean the cell would deliver 1500mA over 30 minutes, and so on (i.e. 5C would be 3750mA for 12 mins). Of course, to actually determine C, you would normally use a power supply to discharge the cell at a set current.

    There are a lot of caveats here. First off, rated capacity of cells is rarely accurate (e.g. AW protected 14500 consistent have 25-30% greater capacity that AW protected RCR in my testing- despite both being rated at 750mAh). Moreover, discharge rates are not linear over time (i.e., cells don't give up energy linearly). Also, in reality, internal resistance turns some of the energy into heat (and thus lowers the resulting capacity as you raise the discharge rate).

    Since I can directly measure none of this, I simply go by the simple rule-of-thumb based on runtime - if it takes less than 30 mins to discharge the cell, we likely talking >2C (which is my max comfort zone). Below 20 mins (i.e. >3C estimate), I am very uncomfortable.

    There's a good explanation of C-rate at battery university.

    I did another test running the BC10 at low mode brightness with RCR123 and it managed to last 55mins on the stop watch. It felt pretty hot to touch, and I was wondering if it would cause any damage to the led chip? And lastly ICR battery do not have protected circuit so if I deplete it completely the voltage will drop to 0V. Why would most people recommend the battery to be thrown away? Is it because the battery cant hold any more charge well?
    ~1C discharge should be fine.

    As for a fully drained Li-ion, it MUST be thrown away. For safety purposes, you should never run a cell down below ~2.7V for any sustained amount of time. You should not rely on protection circuits, as they typically trip at the low-mid 2V range (e.g. 2.4V). The reason for this is that under a heavy load, the voltage will drop rapidly once you reach ~3.2V or so, and will hit ~2.4V within seconds. But once the circuit trips and power is cut-off, voltage quickly recovers to >2.7V (i.e typically within a few secs). This likely won't be a problem occasionally (only spending a few secs below 2.7V), but repeated trips to the protection cut-off are not healthy in the long run.

    The real danger with protection circuits is in lights that drop to a low moon mode as the battery nears exhaustion. In these cases, you could be running many hours at <2.7V before you ever reach the cut-off feature at ~2.4V. If you let that happen, the cell may never recover back to >2.7V (or it could take hours). Either way, that cell should be tossed, as its storage capacity is permanently damaged.

    All this to say, the true danger is in unprotected cells. These were developed for high-power incadescent operation - where by time you noticed a drop in output, you werel still within a safety margin voltage for the cell. On modern circuit-controlled LED lights, output won't drop until you near that ~3.2V level - at which point it will drop to below 2V in a matter of seconds! The further it drops, the slower will be its recovery to minimum voltage levels (if at all).

    The reason you have throw such cells away is not because they can't hold a charge well - it is because the cells become unstable and unpredictable during charging. A high-quality charger will hopefully recognize the low voltage, and refuse to charge. Most chargers (which frankly have charging rates too high for low-capacity RCRs anyway - but that's another matter) will blithely go ahead and hit with a lot of juice. You run the risk of a catastrophic failure during charging (i.e. a fire erupting in the charger!).

    The relative risk of that may be low, but it's worth remembering the differing safety profiles of primary lithium cells and rechargeable Li-ion. For primary lithium, your greatest risk is under a current discharge (especially in multi-cell setups where differences in capacity could lead to reverse charging are potentially "venting with flame"). For Li-ions, your greatest risk is when under a current charge, especially if the battery has been damaged by a sustained <2.7V stay.

    This is why it's a good idea to invest in a DMM if you plan to use Li-ions. You should always check the resting voltage level of your cells before plunking them in a charger.

    Many of the experts in the batteries subforum can explain all this better than I, so I suggest you check that forum out.
    Last edited by selfbuilt; 06-16-2011 at 10:15 AM.
    Full list of all my reviews: flashlightreviews.ca. Outdoor 100-yard Beamshots 2011. Latest: V54 Fenix LD50vn.
    Gratefully accepting donations to my battery fund.

  20. #50
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    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    Thanks selfbuilt, i like the way you do your tests and judge most lights based on your reviews.I bought the bc10 and am impressed with the output,build and simplicity.The light out put truly defies it size just using a normal cr123. One thing i noticed when the light started to run low was the slightest flicker [just noticeable] not flash as battery finally went flat.I usually grab my rrt2 but not this week, the bc10 has been first to hand.

  21. #51
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    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    Quote Originally Posted by selfbuilt View Post
    Sorry, no plans to. I am trying to limit the number of samples I test from any given series (e.g. same with the Klarus, etc). Hard to find the time with all the requests I get.
    Does that mean you are going to test the Klarus new 'P' series: P1A, P2A, P1C

  22. #52

    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    Thanks Selfbuilt for this review made me get a BA10 since I like my EDC in AA format. I added a ring in between the tail cap and the body of the light now I can carry this light bezel down. Yay!

    Current EDC: BA10 & E01 (back to old school)

  23. #53

    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    really helpful test, i just bought bc10 i want to try 16340 battery, now i can give up

  24. #54

    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    Can I use this Ultrafire 3.6V 880mAh LC 16340 Protected CR123A Battery in the bc 10? Thanks
    Last edited by Norm; 10-05-2011 at 12:02 PM. Reason: DX links Removed

  25. #55

    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    Oups sorry, I didn’t know that i must not use e-shop links. I ordered the bc-10 today and i have 4 of this batteries. Anybody help

  26. #56

    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    Does anybody know if I could use an AA dummy cell and a 14500 in a Jetbeam ba20? I feel like it should work but I don't know and I can't find any information on it.

  27. #57

    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    Quote Originally Posted by Quality View Post
    Does anybody know if I could use an AA dummy cell and a 14500 in a Jetbeam ba20? I feel like it should work but I don't know and I can't find any information on it.
    If manufacturers make a circuit which will boost and buck, they usually are proud to advertise it as a feature. Given the other lights in the series, and Selfbuilt's warning about the dangerously high discharge rate using RCRs, it's quite possible they share a common boost circuit with a 1.5-3 volt input, which goes to direct drive when input voltage exceeds Vf.

  28. #58

    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    I have been using it in my BC 10 with no problem, but it gets quite hot quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by konstantinos View Post
    Can I use this Ultrafire 3.6V 880mAh LC 16340 Protected CR123A Battery in the bc 10? Thanks

  29. #59
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    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    @ ryanc420: in your attempt to gain validation, you made these posts:

    Quote Originally Posted by ryanc420
    post number 1
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanc420
    post number 2
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanc420
    post number 3
    They have not been approved. Posts need to demonstrate that you are not of robotic origin and have something positive to contribute.
    Resistance is futile...

  30. #60

    Default Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

    I'm curious - has anyone tried using 14500 Li Ion batteries in a BA20? Will it cook the LED? Thanks

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