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Thread: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

  1. #1
    Flashaholic*
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    Default My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    I earn my living at the keyboard about 50% of the time.
    Lately I have noticed that my wrist hurts whenever I am using my Logitech cordless mouse.
    There are a host of pads, gadgets, and mouse designs out there.
    What do the computer gurus recommend as a new mouse?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    That you're using a MOUSE, any mouse, might be the problem.

    You might try a trackball?

    I do programming and (ahem) a lot of surfing and I've never been more comfortable than with this Kensington unit. It has a huge, hefty, easy-to-slide ball. (On the contrary, I've used many other versions of trackballs and found some annoying, others painful, even Kensington's other "Orbit" trackball. Usually the pain comes from havng to rack my fingers back & up to to move the ball.)

    You gotta use what fits your hand best. I have big hands, so this works best for me. YMMV.

    And Kensington makes a wireless version too, BTW.

    Image of the trackball here.

    Oh yeah, and FWIW I absolutely never use those extra keys or the scroll wheel. I should have just gotten the standard version.

    [edit]Oh, not that I'm a guru though... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]
    [edit]Removed image tag after reading Sasha's note in admin pages that it's a bad thing to link an image from someone else's site. I'm sorry Sasha! <

  3. #3
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    Default Re: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    I have the LogiTech cordless mouse and use one of these...
    Fellowes wrist rest mouse pad

    My typing is pretty pathetic...hunt and peck. But I do use more keystroke short cuts to use the mouse a little less.

    Mike

  4. #4
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    Default Re: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    I use a trackball and find it vastly superior to the mouse. You might find it more natural when gaming.

    Stan

  5. #5

    Default Re: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    How is your posture? No seriuosly. I had a guy bring in a mouse to the pc shop I worked at. He complained that it hurt his wrist to use it. We plugged it in and it worked fine so we had him sit down at the sales demo pc. He did the "gangsta lean", you know the guy driving around the city with the seat leaning back all the way.
    Me, I hate to use a mouse anymore, my last three systems have been laptops with touchpads. I hate to reach for a mouse now.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    I'd try a trackball (I've been having these nagging wrists lately too and I'm only 17!) but how does it work with AutoCad? I have a whole life of computing ahead of me (I want to become an enginner)

  7. #7
    Flashaholic BF Hammer's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    I've used a Cirque touchpad for several years now. It doesn't require your hand to be held at a certain angle to use every time, so repetitive motion injury is a non-factor. Also I don't suffer from the clumsiness that others have when moving from a desktop workstation with mouse or trackball to a notebook PC (almost all use a touchpad now). The operation of the touchpads are almost identical between machines. I'm going to be bummed out if I buy a new PC in the future and there is no PS-2 port available to plug the touchpad into.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    [ QUOTE ]
    Saaby said:
    I'd try a trackball (I've been having these nagging wrists lately too and I'm only 17!) but how does it work with AutoCad? I have a whole life of computing ahead of me (I want to become an enginner)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I use AutoCad a lot, but I actually prefer SolidWorks. The world is 3-dimensional so your software should be, too. SW is superior for almost all of my applications.

    I used a track ball several years ago and I ended up going back to a mouse. Maybe my current wrist pain is the impetus that I need to really convert to a trackball or some other pointing device beside a mouse.
    It's kind of funny that after designing so many egonomic products that I am now concerned about my own ergonomics.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    If I use a normal mouse with my right hand, I get pain within an hour.

    Get a symmetric mouse, and teach yourself how to mouse with the left hand.

    Or use a trackball with either hand.

    I use a trackball (Logitech Marble) on my left hand. When I use other people's computers, I move their mouse to the other side.

    You also should make sure you aren't reaching forward or straining your neck, arm or wrist.

  10. #10

    Default Re: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    There's something going on with the way one must turn one's hand and lower portion of the forearm when using a standard mouse. Apparently the wrist and forearm shold be kept bladed vertically, as in when shaking hands.

    This was discovered by some mouse designers and several new designs evolved; see HERE, HERE, and HERE.

    The two long, thin bones of the forearm (ulna? and whatever?) nearly CROSS OVER EACH OTHER when the hand and wrist are positioned in a horizontal plane, doing something to the connecting ligaments, tendons, and their attenuate nerve(?) structures, causing RSI damage and eventual pain. Even my Logitech trackball has a raised, "hill" shape that helps to position my hand/wrist/firearm at a 30° to 45° angle rather than nearly flat on the tabletop as with a regular mouse, and even this slight change in position has made a world of difference to me, as I also experienced complaints similar to yours while using a mouse exclusively.

    HTH...

  11. #11
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    Default Re: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    [ QUOTE ]
    Saaby said:but how does it work with AutoCad?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    First let me get this outta the way.. <font color="green">HOLY CRIPERS SAABY YOU'RE ONLY 17??? CONGRATS ON BEING SO SMART!</font>

    Okay, now...
    Works great for me with AutoCad. (But with AutoDesk products you'll have to suffer with MSWindows [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img])
    I use the trackball on my dual-boot Win/Linux box. Works great with both. (And I think Kensington started out as a Mac-only company if that makes you feel warm &amp; fuzzy about them. I still have one of their covers for my Mac Plus.)

  12. #12
    * The Arctic Moderator * Sigman's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    I use a Microsoft Trackball Explorer (trackball moved with index &amp; middle fingers, while thumb is used to left/right click along with scroll wheel). Absolutely love it! I haven't used it with AutoCad at home, though I do use a standard scroll wheel mouse at work with AutoCad - so I can't answer the AutoCad/Trackball question...

  13. #13
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    Default Re: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    I use a mouse and found that the gel wrist pads are much better than the foam ones.

  14. #14

    Default Re: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    I've had wrist/hand trouble off and on for a couple years now. I've found that laptop touch pads are the worst. It was from using my laptops touch pad that I first started having pain in my hands/wrists. Mice are much better on my wrists than touchpads. Trackballs are much better than mice in my opinion. I have both of the Microsoft trackballs, one which uses your thumb and the other uses your index finger. I find that using too much of any input device is going to start bothering me so I try and alternate between the two Microsoft trackballs, and Microsoft optical mouse.

    Mr. Bulk, have you by chance tried those handshake type of mice and trackballs that you posted the links to? They sound promising.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    [ QUOTE ]
    binky said:
    CONGRATS ON BEING SO SMART!


    [/ QUOTE ]
    Thanks...

    [ QUOTE ]

    Okay, now...
    Works great for me with AutoCad. (But with AutoDesk products you'll have to suffer with MSWindows [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img])

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Let me see if I have this straight and then I'll try to keep this conversation as OS independant as possible.

    Autocad...Mac version existed. Dropped several years ago. Now it's rumored they're going to create a viewer for AutoCAD files for OS X and possibly bring AutoCAD back to Mac? (Thankyou G5...)

    Since we're on the subject, I got me one of these for when I'm doing video editing and such:


    It helps and the ni (Blech I can't type! Maybe I giv eup for the nigt).

    It helps and the nicest thing abotu it is that it's fully programmable so when I"m not editing it doubles as a big scroll wheel for my left hand. If I don't feel like using that my keyboard (Black Logitech Elite) has a scroll on it too.

    I've kind of wanted to try a trackball for some time now. It sounds like I need to pick one up and just give it a try. If I get an older, non MX Logitech one that uses the same reciever as my current wireless mouse, I should be able to very very very easily switch between the two right?

  16. #16

    Default Re: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    Any position that causes the hand to be hyperextended (bent back from the wrist) can create problems. Try this:

    Exercise I

    1) Put your hand on the mouse in "normal position" with your wrist resting on the gelpad:

    WARNING: ANYONE WITH CARPAL TUNNEL OR ANY DIAGNOSED WRIST AILMENT PLEASE DO NOT PERFORM THE FOLLOWING TWO EXCERCISES, OR PERFORM WITH EXTREME CARE:

    2) Without removing your wrist from the pad, bend your hand back from the wrist as far as possible without over-straining

    3) Maintain the position for 5-10 seconds, becoming aware of any feelings of discomfort and how they radiate from the wrist into the arm.

    4) Release

    That was an exaggerated example of a common source of hand wrist and arm problems unconsciously experienced daily by millions of keyboard users. It's particularly insidious because even if your keyboard body posture and alignment are textbook perfect you can still get into trouble if your hand is hyperextended.

    Exercise II

    1) Stand up at the computer

    2) Without bending your knees, or bending them as little as possible, put your hand on the mouse, wrist resting on your gel pad.

    3) Very short hold, only long enough to feel how uncomfortable it is.

    That was another example of hand hyperextension caused in this case by a gross body misalignment.

    Hand hyperextension caused problems for me and several of my colleagues, and is a common precursor to hand and wrist problems for many people. Obviously it's important to place the mouse at an adequate height, but proper wrist elevation is critical. In my own case, the mouse tray is approx 2.5" lower than the keyboard and my forearm slopes at a slight downward angle. I found it helpful to raise the mousepad by 3/8" to achieve a comfortable angle. It would have been better to also adjust chair height but somewhat irrationally I had become attached to my existing chair height.

    A good way to achieve comfort is to decide on an optimum mouse/hand/wrist/arm position and to adjust your chair accordingly. IOW, your body and chair adjusts to accommodate your hand and wrist, not vice versa.

    Brightnorm

  17. #17

    Default Re: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    I found the biggest help for my RSI was a Wacom graphics tablet, like the 4x5 Intuos II. That on my right (dominant) side and a Microsoft Intellimouse Optical on the left, have let me keep computing. I used to use the pen alone on the tablet but when the side of my wrist started to hurt rather than the usual place on the top, I started to switch between mouse and pen, along with a couple of different ways to hold the pen and mouse.

    I would advise seeing a doctor (maybe occupational therapist?) or at least getting some books on RSI such as the Damany &amp; Bellis or Pascarelli &amp; Quilter books. Taking regular and frequent breaks helps, as can certain stretching exercises and the application of cold &amp;/or heat. A doctor can advise you if an anti-inflammatory or orthopedic wrist support would be advisable.

    Don't ignore it, in any case. I did for a long time and it helped lead to depression and other problems, and it's never completely gone away. I still am concerned about my ability to use computers on the job as much as Engineers (I'm an EE looking for work) need to, but will just have to hope that I find an understanding company to work with and/or a job that isn't a desk &amp; computer one. God knows I'd rather be in the electronics lab using soldering irons and test equipment, not at a desk mousing and typing, most of my time.

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    Default Re: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    Ooh, I just remembered.

    A good keyboard helps too. I have fairly small hands so bump and hump keybaords don't work for me (wayy too much hand movement to get any typing done)

    If you have one of the old, for lack of a better word, 'Tall' keyboards, do yourself a favor and invest in one of the newer, flatter ones. I believe the scientific term is "Zero Tilt". Basically the key elevation is much less, more like a laptop keyboard. When I got my current keyboard that was not one of the stipulations but it will be from here on out. The taller ones make you tilt your wrists backward to type (Especially the top row and numbers). Not good.

  19. #19
    Flashaholic* Quickbeam's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    My wrist was also killing me from spending a lot of time at the mouse. I fixed it using 2 things.

    First, move your keyboard and mouse to a keyboard shelf. Get one and add it to your desk if you don't have one and adjust the shelf so it's almost in your lap. Having the mouse on top of the desk was part of the problem.

    Second, I got one of these:

    http://www.dynaflexstore.com/product...1=204&amp;3=11



    Its a gyro inside a solid cage. You twirl your wrist to keep it going and it applies torque to your wrist, strengthing the muscles of your wrist and upper arm.

    They even have a version that lights up with LEDs inside it from the power generated by the gyroscopic motion. Looks really amazing - like a 3-D Spirograph drawing.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    I agree with brightnorm. I've found that the best thing for me to do to avoid wrist pain is to put my entire forearm on the desk - from my wrist all the way up to the elbow. That and I don't use a mousepad.

    I have a Logitech MX700 at home and it has really nice buttons - their pivot point if further back, so they're easier to click. This lets me keep my wrist on the desk and still easily double-click. I spend a lot of time on the computer which used to be a problem. Hours of gaming use to kill my wrist, but now with the good mouse and my arm on the desk, I have no problems.

    Allen

  21. #21
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    Default Re: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    What about a chair with armrests? Sometimes I type with one of my arms on the armrest(can't do both very well). My arm/wrist on the armrest feels way better than the one that is not supported.

    Does anybody else do this?

  22. #22
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    Default Re: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    [ QUOTE ]
    TheBeam said:
    What about a chair with armrests? Sometimes I type with one of my arms on the armrest(can't do both very well). My arm/wrist on the armrest feels way better than the one that is not supported.

    Does anybody else do this?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I've been doing that for years. I strapped a small board to the right armrest so the mousepad is on the armrest. It is just like having your arm on the armrest but with a mouse in your hand. My wrist still gets strained or tired, but I think it's from the length of time using the mouse rather than the position. I can use the mouse for hours like this before I feel any strain whereas if I am using a mouse elsewhere, such as on a desk or keyboard droor, I feel the strain on my wrist within minutes.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: My Wrist Hurts - Need a New Mouse

    I was twisting the key-closure thing on a stage case today (Tree ought to know what I'm talking about) with my right hand and all the sudden a flash of pain/numbness shot through it. Not a good sign [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] first thing I thought of was SH*T that hurt. Second thing I thought of was this thread.

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