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Thread: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

  1. #1

    Default Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    First the beam shots....

    S12 Factory VS S12DD


    S12 inside


    Outdoor S12DD Left VS S12Factory Right, Fresh charged IMR 26650


    1min


    2min


    3min


    4min


    5min


    6min


    7min


    8min


    9min


    10min


    11min


    12min


    13min


    14min


    15min


    16min


    Restart after 15min in fridge cool down


    Restart after 15min in fridge cool down Exposed Down



    Observation:
    1) DD is 37% brighter than factory for the fist 2 minutes. After 2 minutes the edge is not distinct.
    2) At 16 minutes DD appear twice as bright as Factory due to extreme thermal regualtion in factory unit
    3) 15min cool down restart shows that DD output remain the same while Factory is now brighter
    4) Tests were done with fresh charged Tactical LED Orange IMR 26650

    Conlusion:
    1) IMHO 37% brightness increase for 2 minutes is not worth the mod!
    2) Deactivating the thermal sensor is the best way to maintain the 800 lumen threshold for as long as possible.

    Send me your questions and comments :-)
    Last edited by vinhnguyen54; 04-14-2011 at 12:53 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    I am currently testing both S12 reassembled to factory condition but with one disconnected from the resistors to confirm that its indeed the thermal sensor.

    Edit: it is confirmed that the tiny resistor is indeed the thermal sensor! :-)

    Here is a photo after 7 minutes with thermal sensor deactivated versus factory condition. They started about about the same brightness
    Last edited by vinhnguyen54; 04-14-2011 at 01:14 AM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Can't wait to get home and actually see the pics. (imagehosters blocked at work)


  4. #4

    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Can you tell us if the light got very hot at all when you disabled the thermal sensor and ran it for a while?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    I wonder why is it that the unmodded light is brighter than the DD after the run and 15 min cool down in the fridge. Do you think its because the cell was drained from the 15min of DD current draw?

  6. #6
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Since the Direct Drive unit is dependant on the voltage input including cell sag you have to tell us the tailcap current so we can estimate the watts.

    In my experience a stock SST-90 direct drive will be 2A~4A off an IMR 26650. After you break it in via overdrive cycles, the vF will majically lower and you should be at 6A~7A. Your lumens will increase significantly.

    Break in:
    Put 5V or so input run for 3 min (yes, alot of current and heat) make sure no blue tint shift. I use 4 NiMH C Tenergy cells for this and get 10A tailcap....50watts OUCH.

    Repeat this proces about 4~5 times (let it cool 100% before you begin another cycle) and you will get almost double the tailcap current when you go back to your IMR 26650 and the lumens will nearly double too.

    bigC
    Surefire 6P with Malkoff M60 simple, bright, efficient.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Both light got hot but the DD is slightly hotter. Both were not too hot to hold though. And thE lights cool down quickly when you hold it in your hand too. I don't belive heat is a very big problem.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Both lights did not get too hot to hold after 17 minutes during the test. For some reason the DD only felt a little hotter. Holding the light make the temperature drop quickly though. Also the S12 heat sink is a very efficient design. Aside from the heat sink head, the entire body also helps with heat sinking. I am sure there are other custom SST90 lights that are driven harder with less heat sinking and are still running. We just need to use our head a little more when we deactivate the thermal sensor. Either way, I do not believe heat is too much of a problem in the S12.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Big C,

    1) Can you break in a SST90 with 3 Alkaline D cells? 1.67X3 is about 5V. I asked because I don't have any C NiMH cells.
    2) I did notice that DD only pulled around 3.5-4A at the tail cap off IMR 26650. I was so pretty disappointed.
    3) Would breaking in the SST90 hurt the LED in anyway? Any side effects? Would everything return to normal if we do decide to hook it back it to factory condition later?
    4) After breaking in do you think the SST90 could keep the current draw from 6-7A for longer than 10 minutes?

    Thanks!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    It looks worth it to me. Not only is it brighter but the hotspot seems more compact. Why is that?
    I'm not a huge fan of regulation. I would prefer to use a protected 26650 though just to avoid draining the battery too low. No such thing right?

    You say the DD is twice as bright after 16 minutes but never show the beamshots! I would like to SEE the horrible thermal regulation in action.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Quote Originally Posted by recDNA View Post
    It looks worth it to me. Not only is it brighter but the hotspot seems more compact. Why is that?
    I'm not a huge fan of regulation. I would prefer to use a protected 26650 though just to avoid draining the battery too low. No such thing right?

    You say the DD is twice as bright after 16 minutes but never show the beamshots! I would like to SEE the horrible thermal regulation in action.
    The beam shot is labeled 16min above...You are not looking hard enough

    4sevens said that the driver is pushing 5A but I am only getting around 3.5-3.8. Even DD is only pushing 3.5-4A. Arghhhhhhhhhhhh

    I Dont have 4C nimh battery to try what Big C suggested...

  12. #12
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Quote Originally Posted by vinhnguyen54 View Post
    The beam shot is labeled 16min above...You are not looking hard enough

    4sevens said that the driver is pushing 5A but I am only getting around 3.5-3.8. Even DD is only pushing 3.5-4A. Arghhhhhhhhhhhh

    I Dont have 4C nimh battery to try what Big C suggested...

    I will send you some NiMH CR123 sized cells that can take 30A!!!!!!!!! 4 of them should fit in that body, but granted you will not use the tailcap and just put a spacer to center the cells.


    FYI: At 5.5A~6.5A my 2D Mag SST-90 is almost too hot to hold after 3minutes. I also manipulate the current by putting thinner or fatter wires. This changes well over 1A the current and it works great to control the current in DD builds.

    bigC
    Surefire 6P with Malkoff M60 simple, bright, efficient.

  13. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vinhnguyen54 View Post
    The beam shot is labeled 16min above...You are not looking hard enough

    4sevens said that the driver is pushing 5A but I am only getting around 3.5-3.8. Even DD is only pushing 3.5-4A. Arghhhhhhhhhhhh

    I Dont have 4C nimh battery to try what Big C suggested...
    Oops I missed it! I expected the DD to look twice as bright. It doesn't to my eyes. In fact the one on the right looks brighter to me.

    Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
    Last edited by recDNA; 04-14-2011 at 04:19 PM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Big C,

    You PM me the answers to post number 9 and I think its really good info for everyone. Would you mind if I post it here?

  15. #15
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    What is the Tailcap current on the S12 with factory driver??????

    With topped off IMR 26650 please.

    Post my PM freely.

    bigC
    Surefire 6P with Malkoff M60 simple, bright, efficient.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    ig C,

    1) Can you break in a SST90 with 3 Alkaline D cells? 1.67X3 is about 5V. I asked because I don't have any C NiMH cells.

    No. 3 Alkaline D cells are 4.5V input, but under load you are lucky if you have 3V input. Thats why DD lights are not bright with Allkalines. They just sag too much. Batteries sag under load/current.

    2) I did notice that DD only pulled around 3.5-4A at the tail cap off IMR 26650. I was so pretty disappointed.

    Yup, Its as 99% of what everybody gets. Some get 2A, so consider yourself lucky.
    You are probably seeing 800 OTF though, but will easily double that once you break it in.



    3) Would breaking in the SST90 hurt the LED in anyway? Any side effects? Would everything return to normal if we do decide to hook it back it to factory condition later?
    • Nothing will happen to the LED, only thing is you lower the vF permenantly but thats what you want!
    • Only side effect is the batteries drain faster and it gets hot faster due to the 6~8A off IMR 26550.
    • If you put the stock driven back on then its regulated like factory, but it would still be a tad brighter because you altered the vF, which is still a great thing.


    4) After breaking in do you think the SST90 could keep the current draw from 6-7A for longer than 10 minutes?

    You would probably only get the current that high for about 10min, then it would settle at 5.5A or so which is still alot and enought for well over 1200 OTF.

    Thanks!

  17. #17

    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Factory S12 settle 3.55A on fresh charged IMR at tail cap

  18. #18
    Flashaholic brandocommando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Quote Originally Posted by recDNA View Post
    I would prefer to use a protected 26650 though just to avoid draining the battery too low. No such thing right?
    These batteries were designed for the S12, and they are protected.

    For some reason they do not mention it on their website, ... but they are.
    Last edited by brandocommando; 04-14-2011 at 04:45 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Quote Originally Posted by brandocommando View Post
    These batteries were designed for the S12, and they are protected.

    For some reason they do not mention it on their website, ... but they are.
    4sevens 26650 are protected. Orange tactical LED IMR are not.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Quote Originally Posted by vinhnguyen54 View Post
    Send me your questions and comments :-)
    Thanks for the info and pics!

    I am puzzled somewhat. How can the Olight SR90 make 2200 lumens, but this S12 can't ????

  21. #21

    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthearted1 View Post
    Thanks for the info and pics!

    I am puzzled somewhat. How can the Olight SR90 make 2200 lumens, but this S12 can't ????
    The s12 is pushed at less than 4a while the sr90 is pushed to 9a

  22. #22

    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Quote Originally Posted by vinhnguyen54 View Post
    The s12 is pushed at less than 4a while the sr90 is pushed to 9a
    How did they do that?
    IF direct drive doesn't get S12 to 9A on IMR...... then how??

  23. #23
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthearted1 View Post
    How did they do that?
    IF direct drive doesn't get S12 to 9A on IMR...... then how??
    The SR-90 has a Driver and proprietary cell

    It actually made 1480-1200 real out the front lumens from turn on to 3-4minutes, which makes it a failure. I still like it's 95k lux though
    Surefire 6P with Malkoff M60 simple, bright, efficient.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchelis View Post
    The SR-90 has a Driver and proprietary cell

    It actually made 1480-1200 real out the front lumens from turn on to 3-4minutes, which makes it a failure. I still like it's 95k lux though
    I tried to burn in my S12 with 6V AC adapter but the adapter only pushed the LED to 4.5A. It did burn in a little though. S12DD is now pulling 4.2A instead of 3.8A like before.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchelis View Post
    I will send you some NiMH CR123 sized cells that can take 30A!!!!!!!!! 4 of them should fit in that body, but granted you will not use the tailcap and just put a spacer to center the cells.

    bigC
    Sounds interesting!

    Are these freely available? Do you have the brand or dealer details for these?

    Thanks
    Stephen

  26. #26
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Wallace View Post
    Sounds interesting!

    Are these freely available? Do you have the brand or dealer details for these?

    Thanks
    Stephen
    I call them CR123 size NiMH cells, but they are a bit shorter in reall life. They appear to be freaking awesome.
    http://www.batteryjunction.com/intellect-1600-23a.html

    In my Tests:
    My SST-50 light would pull 3A at the tail with IMR 18650, but when I used 3 of these the tailcap current was 5.5A or so. So, they appear to deliver more juice then even IMR 18650 cells. I used these cells to test certain lights, but they have proven to be too much for most emitters to handle in that they give me way more current then I wanted for my DD builds. The SSt-90 should benefit from these significantly.

    bigC
    Surefire 6P with Malkoff M60 simple, bright, efficient.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Many thanks.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Great thread! Nice job vinhnguyen54, on the mod and bigC for the info. It's amazing what you guys get up to!!



  29. #29
    Flashaholic* tre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Quote Originally Posted by bigchelis View Post

    Break in:
    Put 5V or so input run for 3 min (yes, alot of current and heat) make sure no blue tint shift. I use 4 NiMH C Tenergy cells for this and get 10A tailcap....50watts OUCH.

    Repeat this proces about 4~5 times (let it cool 100% before you begin another cycle) and you will get almost double the tailcap current when you go back to your IMR 26650 and the lumens will nearly double too.

    bigC
    I have no idea how you figured this out but that is a heck of a trick. Going to try this.

  30. #30
    Flashaholic* bigchelis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

    Quote Originally Posted by tre View Post
    I have no idea how you figured this out but that is a heck of a trick. Going to try this.

    Remember to try it againts a white wall because you will definitely see any tint change. Angry blue turn it off immediately. White = keep going. Good luck!

    I did this to SST-50 and SST-90 lights that are direct drive and to this day the results are spectacular.

    bigC
    Surefire 6P with Malkoff M60 simple, bright, efficient.

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