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Maelstrom S12 Factory VS Maelstrom S12 Direct Drive on IMR 26650

Skylumen

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Sep 14, 2010
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First the beam shots....

S12 Factory VS S12DD
VIN_2608.jpg


S12 inside
MaelstromS12LED.jpg


Outdoor S12DD Left VS S12Factory Right, Fresh charged IMR 26650
S12DDvsS12Factory.jpg


1min
1min.jpg


2min
2min.jpg


3min
3min.jpg


4min
4min.jpg


5min
5min.jpg


6min
6min.jpg


7min
7min.jpg


8min
8min.jpg


9min
9min.jpg


10min
10min.jpg


11min
11min.jpg


12min
12min.jpg


13min
13min.jpg


14min
14min.jpg


15min
15min.jpg


16min
16min.jpg


Restart after 15min in fridge cool down
ACoolDown15min.jpg


Restart after 15min in fridge cool down Exposed Down
CoolDown15minexposeddown.jpg



Observation:
1) DD is 37% brighter than factory for the fist 2 minutes. After 2 minutes the edge is not distinct.
2) At 16 minutes DD appear twice as bright as Factory due to extreme thermal regualtion in factory unit
3) 15min cool down restart shows that DD output remain the same while Factory is now brighter
4) Tests were done with fresh charged Tactical LED Orange IMR 26650

Conlusion:
1) IMHO 37% brightness increase for 2 minutes is not worth the mod!
2) Deactivating the thermal sensor is the best way to maintain the 800 lumen threshold for as long as possible.

Send me your questions and comments :)
 
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Skylumen

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I am currently testing both S12 reassembled to factory condition but with one disconnected from the resistors to confirm that its indeed the thermal sensor.

Edit: it is confirmed that the tiny resistor is indeed the thermal sensor! :)

Here is a photo after 7 minutes with thermal sensor deactivated versus factory condition. They started about about the same brightness
VIN_2694.jpg
 
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LEDburn

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Jul 26, 2010
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Can you tell us if the light got very hot at all when you disabled the thermal sensor and ran it for a while?
 

badtziscool

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Oct 13, 2006
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1,722
I wonder why is it that the unmodded light is brighter than the DD after the run and 15 min cool down in the fridge. Do you think its because the cell was drained from the 15min of DD current draw?
 

bigchelis

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Prunedale, CA
Since the Direct Drive unit is dependant on the voltage input including cell sag you have to tell us the tailcap current so we can estimate the watts.

In my experience a stock SST-90 direct drive will be 2A~4A off an IMR 26650. After you break it in via overdrive cycles, the vF will majically lower and you should be at 6A~7A. Your lumens will increase significantly.

Break in:
Put 5V or so input run for 3 min (yes, alot of current and heat) make sure no blue tint shift. I use 4 NiMH C Tenergy cells for this and get 10A tailcap....50watts OUCH.

Repeat this proces about 4~5 times (let it cool 100% before you begin another cycle) and you will get almost double the tailcap current when you go back to your IMR 26650 and the lumens will nearly double too.

bigC
 

Skylumen

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Both light got hot but the DD is slightly hotter. Both were not too hot to hold though. And thE lights cool down quickly when you hold it in your hand too. I don't belive heat is a very big problem.
 

Skylumen

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Both lights did not get too hot to hold after 17 minutes during the test. For some reason the DD only felt a little hotter. Holding the light make the temperature drop quickly though. Also the S12 heat sink is a very efficient design. Aside from the heat sink head, the entire body also helps with heat sinking. I am sure there are other custom SST90 lights that are driven harder with less heat sinking and are still running. We just need to use our head a little more when we deactivate the thermal sensor. Either way, I do not believe heat is too much of a problem in the S12.
 

Skylumen

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Big C,

1) Can you break in a SST90 with 3 Alkaline D cells? 1.67X3 is about 5V. I asked because I don't have any C NiMH cells.
2) I did notice that DD only pulled around 3.5-4A at the tail cap off IMR 26650. I was so pretty disappointed.
3) Would breaking in the SST90 hurt the LED in anyway? Any side effects? Would everything return to normal if we do decide to hook it back it to factory condition later?
4) After breaking in do you think the SST90 could keep the current draw from 6-7A for longer than 10 minutes?

Thanks!
 

recDNA

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Jun 2, 2009
Messages
8,761
It looks worth it to me. Not only is it brighter but the hotspot seems more compact. Why is that?
I'm not a huge fan of regulation. I would prefer to use a protected 26650 though just to avoid draining the battery too low. No such thing right?

You say the DD is twice as bright after 16 minutes but never show the beamshots! I would like to SEE the horrible thermal regulation in action.
 

Skylumen

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It looks worth it to me. Not only is it brighter but the hotspot seems more compact. Why is that?
I'm not a huge fan of regulation. I would prefer to use a protected 26650 though just to avoid draining the battery too low. No such thing right?

You say the DD is twice as bright after 16 minutes but never show the beamshots! I would like to SEE the horrible thermal regulation in action.

The beam shot is labeled 16min above...You are not looking hard enough

4sevens said that the driver is pushing 5A but I am only getting around 3.5-3.8. Even DD is only pushing 3.5-4A. Arghhhhhhhhhhhh

I Dont have 4C nimh battery to try what Big C suggested...
 

bigchelis

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Prunedale, CA
The beam shot is labeled 16min above...You are not looking hard enough

4sevens said that the driver is pushing 5A but I am only getting around 3.5-3.8. Even DD is only pushing 3.5-4A. Arghhhhhhhhhhhh

I Dont have 4C nimh battery to try what Big C suggested...


I will send you some NiMH CR123 sized cells that can take 30A!!!!!!!!! 4 of them should fit in that body, but granted you will not use the tailcap and just put a spacer to center the cells.


FYI: At 5.5A~6.5A my 2D Mag SST-90 is almost too hot to hold after 3minutes. I also manipulate the current by putting thinner or fatter wires. This changes well over 1A the current and it works great to control the current in DD builds.

bigC
 

recDNA

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Jun 2, 2009
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The beam shot is labeled 16min above...You are not looking hard enough

4sevens said that the driver is pushing 5A but I am only getting around 3.5-3.8. Even DD is only pushing 3.5-4A. Arghhhhhhhhhhhh

I Dont have 4C nimh battery to try what Big C suggested...

Oops I missed it! I expected the DD to look twice as bright. It doesn't to my eyes. In fact the one on the right looks brighter to me.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
 
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Skylumen

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Big C,

You PM me the answers to post number 9 and I think its really good info for everyone. Would you mind if I post it here?
 

bigchelis

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Oct 30, 2008
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Location
Prunedale, CA
What is the Tailcap current on the S12 with factory driver??????

With topped off IMR 26650 please.

Post my PM freely.

bigC
 

Skylumen

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ig C,

1) Can you break in a SST90 with 3 Alkaline D cells? 1.67X3 is about 5V. I asked because I don't have any C NiMH cells.

No. 3 Alkaline D cells are 4.5V input, but under load you are lucky if you have 3V input. Thats why DD lights are not bright with Allkalines. They just sag too much. Batteries sag under load/current.

2) I did notice that DD only pulled around 3.5-4A at the tail cap off IMR 26650. I was so pretty disappointed.

Yup, Its as 99% of what everybody gets. Some get 2A, so consider yourself lucky.:D
You are probably seeing 800 OTF though, but will easily double that once you break it in.



3) Would breaking in the SST90 hurt the LED in anyway? Any side effects? Would everything return to normal if we do decide to hook it back it to factory condition later?
  • Nothing will happen to the LED, only thing is you lower the vF permenantly but thats what you want!
  • Only side effect is the batteries drain faster and it gets hot faster due to the 6~8A off IMR 26550.
  • If you put the stock driven back on then its regulated like factory, but it would still be a tad brighter because you altered the vF, which is still a great thing.

4) After breaking in do you think the SST90 could keep the current draw from 6-7A for longer than 10 minutes?

You would probably only get the current that high for about 10min, then it would settle at 5.5A or so which is still alot and enought for well over 1200 OTF.

Thanks!
 

brandocommando

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Mar 10, 2011
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Location
Oregon
I would prefer to use a protected 26650 though just to avoid draining the battery too low. No such thing right?

These batteries were designed for the S12, and they are protected.

For some reason they do not mention it on their website, :shrug:... but they are.
 
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