Is Surefire discontinuing some flashlights?

[Brasso]

Just my opinion, but if they wanted to sell more lights it would have been better to simply upgrade the led's and design them to take rechargeable batteries. This would have gone a long way towards increasing sales. They're still selling 120 lumen lights that only run for 2 hours on 2 primaries. Hell, I have single AA lights brighter than that and they run for almost as long. They need to upgrade led's and circuits, not discontinue.

As others have stated, I have no use for the newer designs that can't be upgraded and can't run on RCR's. I've pretty much gone from buying Surefires to buying Malkoffs.

The only Surefires I currently own are a Z2, G2, G2Z, and E2L-AA. I'll be keeping all of those except maybe the G2 as it's a newer one that can't be upgraded.

[Erzengel]

Any future SureFire model is little more than thin air or vaporware considering the company's horrendous reputation for releasing future models. As of now, and any time in the forseeable future, the AZ2-S isn't remotely obsolete. Nice of SureFire to discontinue it anyway though.

I know the problem of Surefires release dates. But if they want to start the production of new models, it can be very helpful to stop the production of the older models. Otherwise You always have to keep some capacities for the older stuff.

[Monocrom]

I know the problem of Surefires release dates. But if they want to start the production of new models, it can be very helpful to stop the production of the older models. Otherwise You always have to keep some capacities for the older stuff.

If SureFire had a reputation for releasing new models on time, if the AZ2-S were an older model, and if it were inca. instead of LED; I'd honestly agree with you.

[DM51]

That model practically just came out. They discontinued it??

Well, you have to admit it makes a change. Quite often they discontinue things before they come out, lol

[radioactive_man]

They axe the 6P, but keep the E1E which is only capable of 15 lumens for 90 minutes? WTH Surefire?!?

[Fusion_m8]

Unbelievable... Surefire chopping the 6P is like Toyota chopping the Corolla... Perhaps this is due to the many 6P clones flooding the market?

[Monocrom]

Well, you have to admit it makes a change. Quite often they discontinue things before they come out, lol

It's funny cause it's true.

But I suspect few are feeling the LOLZ.

[Monocrom]

They axe the 6P, but keep the E1E which is only capable of 15 lumens for 90 minutes? WTH Surefire?!?

Maybe the employee told to update the website decided he badly needed a break, and just forgot about the E1E.

Or, more likely, SureFire will get to it tomorrow.

[gottawearshades]

Well, let's be fair. They are discontinuing a variant on a new light. I don't think they are discontinuing the "new" AZ2, and I was happy to pick up an AZ2 (-S or non-S) for $150. It's probably the best implementation of two beam patterns in one light, with terrific tint, and the more folks make fun of it here, the more tempted I am to buy myself a second AZ2-S while I can.

NEW DISCONTINUED

[Monocrom]

Well, let's be fair. They are discontinuing a variant on a new light. I don't think they are discontinuing the "new" AZ2, and I was happy to pick up an AZ2 (-S or non-S) for $150. It's probably the best implementation of two beam patterns in one light, with terrific tint, and the more folks make fun of it here, the more tempted I am to buy myself a second AZ2-S while I can.

Reminds me of an excellent piece of advice I heard from someone else . . .

"If you find something that truly works great for you. Buy at least two. Heck, buy several if you can afford it. Pretty soon the company that makes it will either discontinue it or 'improve' it. Either way, if you lose the one you have, if it gets stolen, or just wears out; you're not gonna be happy. So buy another one as soon as you can."

Honestly, that's just excellent freaking advice!!

[Agile54]

Mono I first heard that back in the '90s from my friend Clint Smith " 1 is none, 2 is one & 3 is about right. "

Just saying ...

[Monocrom]

Who knows . . . Might have been him.

[Xacto]

[...]
"If you find something that truly works great for you. Buy at least two. Heck, buy several if you can afford it. Pretty soon the company that makes it will either discontinue it or 'improve' it. Either way, if you lose the one you have, if it gets stolen, or just wears out; you're not gonna be happy. So buy another one as soon as you can."

Honestly, that's just excellent freaking advice!!

Currently collecting funds for a Z2L, 6PL and 6PDL for the collection in MINT, unopened boxed. Makes roundabout 370 Euro... yeah.... bad addiction. Good thing is, scale model kits for the same amount of money take up way more space, even unbuilt.

Cheers
Thorsten

[ASheep]

Currently collecting funds for a Z2L, 6PL and 6PDL for the collection in MINT, unopened boxed. Makes roundabout 370 Euro... yeah.... bad addiction. Good thing is, scale model kits for the same amount of money take up way more space, even unbuilt.

Cheers
Thorsten

I know the feeling, I'm fighting the urge to buy a 6P, Z2, C2, E2D and another A2... Then I look at my shelf full of knives and flashlights, and then to the shelves and shelves of scale models... (I have 5 unbuilt Bundeswehr vehicles sitting on my desk) I'm gonna need a bigger room to store everything in!

Do I really need it all? (I think you guys know the answer!)

Cheers,
Alex

[gsr]

Well, at least we have the CFP Marketplace to find those discontinued lights that we still desire. I, too, have found scale models can take up alot of space. That's why most of my kits are 1/144 scale aircraft and 1/72 scale armor.

[JohnnyLunar]

As of 3:45pm (PST) today (6/14), the 6P Original is back on their website. It has had it's "discontinued" status reversed. However, it's MSRP is listed as $88, compared to the 6P Defender, which is listed at $79. That seems the reverse of how they were listed before. The 6P LED and 6P LED Defender are still listed as discontinued. Very confusing...

[Roger999]

As of 3:45pm (PST) today (6/14), the 6P Original is back on their website. It has had it's "discontinued" status reversed. However, it's MSRP is listed as $88, compared to the 6P Defender, which is listed at $79. That seems the reverse of how they were listed before. The 6P LED and 6P LED Defender are still listed as discontinued. Very confusing...

I agree, they discontinue 2 of the most well known and dependable flashlights (6PL and G2L) and replace it with a light that features a ugly design, glued head, and a crappy plastic lens which somehow costs more.

[Erzengel]

Their drop-in concept has reached its limits concerning temperature management. If You want to sell lights on the professional market or mass market they must be able to run on high all the time without overheating. This isn't guaranteed with classic drop-ins.

[Xacto]

They responded to my post on their Facebook page. Since it is a posting and not a personal message, I hope it okay for the mods for me to post the two messages.

Source on Facebook.
My posting from the 10th of June

I just received word of all the discontinued products and I am deeply shocked. Even the original Surefire 6P and the Z2 in any incarnation - a big mistake from my point of view and from that of many flashlight fans. The current lineup of lights like the 6PX with its sealed head and lack of parts replaceability (unlike the 6P, Z2, G2,...... C2 linesetc.) reduces this line of products to the level of some chinese FenixOlightThrunite light. I know that Surefire still offers its great warranty, but I would hate to ship a flashlight halfway around the globe to replace a lense someones tooth got stuck in. I am very sorry for the way your product line is currently heading.

And their response from today, a few minutes old

Thorsten, we are discontinuing incandescent models as that technology has been eclipsed by the benefits of LEDs. In order to keep up with the latest technology and consumer demand, we have to make space with future products. We are one of t...he few brands that actually have kept the same models around for 20+ years and will still warranty them as long as we have the means to do so. Also, to keep as much in the USA as possible, somethings have to give. Sorry to dissapoint.

If it is not okay to post this (as mentioned before, it was not a personal conversation but a response on their Facebook pinboard), please remove this posting from the thread. Sorry for any inconvenience.

Cheers
Thorsten

[angelofwar]

I also posted along the same regards on SF's FB page:

My Post:

Noticed a lot of Incandescent models discontinued on your website the other day...a lot of my favourites. They still have a following in photography, caving,outdoors, etc. (superior color rendition, IR capability, etc.). Do you guys plan on keeping ANY incandescent models in your line-up? Also, how long do you guys plan to have replacement bulbs available for these models? My M4 has a special use, that, unfortunately, can't be replaced by LED...

Their response:

we have a strong supply of bulbs for most of the lights and will offer them until they're sold out. In regards to color temperature or special color rendering needs, we're working on some first-of-its-kind warm white LEDs that will render like incandescent. The Minimus Vision headlamp will likely be the first product with this new SureFire-only LED.

Two things worhty of mention...

1) r.e. bulbs for discontinued lights "We will offer them until they are sold out"
-In short, get as many bulbs for these lights as you think will be necessary for the rets of your life, or find a suitable LED alternative...

2) r.e. Ditching their Incans, they respond starting off with a new minimus: "with this new SureFire-only LED."
-This may be interesting...a new "warm" LED??? Is SF stepping to the front of the pack with a new warm LED that actually renders color extremely close to incans??? Be interesting to see what the tint of this "Surefire only" LED...

Hmmmm...either way, I'm disappointed about them essentially dropping the bulbs a well...but, maybe they will have LED heads to place on our "old" M4's with this "superior" warm LED technology???

Oh...


Cheers!

AOW

[Z-Tab]

I'm definitely curious about that "SureFire-only LED." If they're really taking tint seriously, the emitter industry might have more incentive to respond with better options.

[calipsoii]

2) r.e. Ditching their Incans, they respond starting off with a new minimus: "with this new SureFire-only LED."
-This may be interesting...a new "warm" LED??? Is SF stepping to the front of the pack with a new warm LED that actually renders color extremely close to incans??? Be interesting to see what the tint of this "Surefire only" LED...

The Surefire Minimus Vision is marketed as 80 lumens.

There are already LED's being produced that put out 80lm of warm white high CRI light. It's good to hear that Surefire's exploring new emitters, but they're not about to revolutionize the 80 lumen High CRI market.

The SSC P4 S42180 is rated 76lm @ 4000 CCT @ 93 CRI (typ).

[angelofwar]

The Surefire Minimus Vision is marketed as 80 lumens.

There are already LED's being produced that put out 80lm of warm white high CRI light. It's good to hear that Surefire's exploring new emitters, but they're not about to revolutionize the 80 lumen High CRI market.

The SSC P4 S42180 is rated 76lm @ 4000 CCT @ 93 CRI (typ).

Yeah, but this statement here is what made me think it may be something of a different scope...

we're working on some first-of-its-kind warm white LEDs that will render like incandescent.

Not giving them the benefit of the doubt, but, if it were indeed something new, it wouldn't be the first time SF broke the mold...after all, PK has been a "flashaholic" longer than 95% of the people on here.

[Size15's]

Nor even the first LED that SureFire have had made to their own design...

[DimeRazorback]

Nor even the first LED that SureFire have had made to their own design...

What was the previous one?

[Size15's]

What was the previous one?

Who said anything it there bring only one?
But seriously, its always amused me that CPF members never notice

[Monocrom]

1) r.e. bulbs for discontinued lights "We will offer them until they are sold out"

Cheers!

AOW

Very unfortunate news indeed!

Not a huge issue for most of SureFires popular models, since Lumens Factory (thankfully) hasn't announced plans to drop their SureFire-compatible inca. lamps. A2 owners should seriously consider getting a Strion kit from FiveMega. Streamlight hasn't announced any plans of dropping the inca. Strion, the bulbs are much less expensive (perfect for stocking up anyway), and are brighter in an A2 than the stock A2 bulbs.


But for some models, it's the death blow. I barely even got to enjoy my SF 9AN. I can get replacement rechargeable batteries for it from outside SureFire. But the dual-bulb lamps are a different story . . . Sad news, indeed.

[DimeRazorback]

Didn't mean to write "one" was gonna edit my post, but wasn't bothered

What LED's are you referring to?

[JohnnyLunar]

In regards to color temperature or special color rendering needs, we're working on some first-of-its-kind warm white LEDs that will render like incandescent.

My Malkoff M61HCRI is a 90-minimum CRI, 180-200 lumen floody drop-in, that runs for at least 2 hours at that output, with several more hours of usable light, on 2 primary batteries. It sits in my Surefire 6P Original. Dropping it into a $15 Solarforce L2 body would put this light around $80. If Surefire can beat those stats, then I'd be interested. Until then, I'm very pleased with this Malkoff, and I guess I need to stock up on P60 lamps.

[calipsoii]

Didn't mean to write "one" was gonna edit my post, but wasn't bothered

What LED's are you referring to?

Since Surefire's pretty heavy into TIR optics, my guess is that they're already using a custom-made emitter in some of their lights and no one has really noticed. With a reflector it's easy to peer down into the bottom and see what's going on, but when it's hidden behind a sealed optic it's more difficult. I don't think size15's is referring to a totally new emitter, I think he means that existing emitters were modified. Maybe an XR-E without the optic attached or a de-domed SSC or something along those lines.

I've got a feeling that they're going to introduce the Vision headlamp as a feeler to see how people respond to a high CRI warm tint. Sort of like they did with the E2L-AA to see how people like a new battery format. If it's a smash hit, we'll probably see more, but if it doesn't sell well, I don't know.