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Thread: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

  1. #301
    Flashaholic* B0wz3r's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by Beacon of Light View Post
    Does anyone know if any new Zebralights are debuting at SHOT going on now?
    Guess we're just going to have to wait and see. I'm not in a hurry as I won't be doing much in the way of camping or the like until spring comes anyway.
    What? Me? Derail a thread?

  2. #302

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Now I'm kinda worried. I haven't seen a single flashlight/headlamp that runs the XM-L emitter on a single 1.5/1.2V source that has good runtimes at lower levels (equal to or higher than XP-G). I hope this isn't a problem for the H502.

  3. #303
    Flashaholic Surnia's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    I know they have the XM-L slated for the H502, but I'm wondering if this will limit the possibility for a H502c?

  4. #304
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    ZebraLight, are you read this topic ? 8-) What you can say about H502w release ?

  5. #305
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by js82 View Post
    Now I'm kinda worried. I haven't seen a single flashlight/headlamp that runs the XM-L emitter on a single 1.5/1.2V source that has good runtimes at lower levels (equal to or higher than XP-G). I hope this isn't a problem for the H502.
    I just checked on the Spark ST5's, the 190nw and the 180ow, which use a T5 XML and an R4 XPG respectively, and they're almost exactly identical in run time and output.

    190nw 180ow
    190L / 0.9h 180L / 0.9h
    100L / 1.8h 100L / 1.8h
    36L / 8h 36L / 8h
    10L / 30h 10L / 30h
    2L / 86h 2L / 86h

    The only difference is the slightly higher output on max of the 190.

    I don't have an 180 to compare to my 190, but I imagine the 180 has a tighter hotspot and a bit more throw than the 190. For me it doesn't matter, as I always use the frosted lens in mine anyway.
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  6. #306
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    >I just checked on the Spark ST5's, the 190nw and the 180ow

    You may open datasheets - minimal differences between these LEDs , when it works low -middle power, XM-L works more efficient on 200 lm and higher.

    But spectr of neutral white XM-L looks slightly better, than neutral XP-G.
    And Zebralight say, that new dc-dc driver will work better.

  7. #307
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by evgeniy View Post
    >I just checked on the Spark ST5's, the 190nw and the 180ow

    You may open datasheets - minimal differences between these LEDs , when it works low -middle power, XM-L works more efficient on 200 lm and higher.
    You're missing the point. The question was whether or not the XML is as efficient at lower outputs as the XPG. Using the example of the two Spark lights above, it is. The question was not about efficiency at high outputs, but efficiency at low outputs.

    There may be other lights that don't show this equivalence, but that would be a driver issue. Yes, spec sheets could provide some insight, but since when as ANY emitter ever performed exactly as indicated by the spec sheet? Circuit design, heat sinking, etc. all play important roles in the efficiency of an emitter.

    Your reference to spec sheets is a class example of engineering getting lost in the numbers and not paying attention to real world factors that affect performance. Engineers are always trying to build a better mousetrap, but in the process, they get lost and forget that what they're designing may be possible from an engineering standpoint, but is impossible to make, or once it is made actually doesn't work because the engineering demands require the entry to the mousetrap be behind some other part of the trap, therefore making the better mousetrap completely useless.
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  8. #308

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by B0wz3r View Post
    Your reference to spec sheets is a class example of engineering getting lost in the numbers and not paying attention to real world factors that affect performance.
    Quote Originally Posted by B0wz3r View Post
    they're almost exactly identical in run time and output.

    190nw 180ow
    190L / 0.9h 180L / 0.9h
    100L / 1.8h 100L / 1.8h
    36L / 8h 36L / 8h
    10L / 30h 10L / 30h
    2L / 86h 2L / 86h

    I don't have an 180 to compare to my 190.
    c'mon Professor. he relied on CREE's specs sheets for his post. you relied on Spark's marketing specs for yours. same difference. since you haven't compared a 180ow and a 190nw side by side, it's just theory for you too.

    and by the way, you weren't even in disagreement about the low current performance of the XML vs XPG. you both seem to think performance should be about the same

  9. #309
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by robostudent5000 View Post
    c'mon Professor. he relied on CREE's specs sheets for his post. you relied on Spark's marketing specs for yours. same difference. since you haven't compared a 180ow and a 190nw side by side, it's just theory for you too.

    and by the way, you weren't even in disagreement about the low current performance of the XML vs XPG. you both seem to think performance should be about the same
    Ah, it's all just... technicalities!

    I've got plenty of other lights that have XPG's in them... I'm just too lazy to get them out and do a side by side...

    In the end though, I think the moral of the story here is that it's different tools for different purposes. What's the old saying? When the only thing you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail? If you want something that's a marathon runner, get a vampire light. If you want something that's a burner, get a big gun. That's what I love about my Zebras... they can do both!
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  10. #310

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by B0wz3r View Post
    In the end though, I think the moral of the story here is that it's different tools for different purposes. What's the old saying? When the only thing you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail? If you want something that's a marathon runner, get a vampire light. If you want something that's a burner, get a big gun. That's what I love about my Zebras... they can do both!
    that's not the moral of the story.

    the question was whether the H502 with the XML will be as efficient at lower outputs on a single AA as Zebra's current 1xAA models are that use the XPG. different tool for different purposes was not the question. it was efficiency at low outputs for XML vs. XPG.
    Quote Originally Posted by B0wz3r View Post
    The question was whether or not the XML is as efficient at lower outputs as the XPG.
    see?
    efficiency at low output comparisons between two emitters is independent of use considerations since what you use them for doesn't effect how well different emitters run at let's say 20mA. we're not talking about beam shape or tint or throw or anything else that matters when different uses are being debated. efficiency at low output is efficiency at low output regardless of your use.

    the real moral of the story is that if you tell someone that they're "missing the point" when in fact they're saying pretty much the same thing you're saying using references that are at about the same level of authority as the ones that you used, you run the risk of having that pointed out by even the lowliest of students like me.

    and in case you thought that your point and evgeniy's point were different, here's evgeniy's post again.
    Quote Originally Posted by evgeniy View Post
    You may open datasheets - minimal differences between these LEDs , when it works low -middle power, XM-L works more efficient on 200 lm and higher.
    "minimal differences between these LEDs, when it works low-middle power" that's pretty much what you said.
    "XM-L works more efficient on 200 lm and higher." you mentioned something similar as well.

    here's what you wrote again.
    Quote Originally Posted by B0wz3r View Post
    I just checked on the Spark ST5's, the 190nw and the 180ow, which use a T5 XML and an R4 XPG respectively, and they're almost exactly identical in run time and output.
    The only difference is the slightly higher output on max of the 190.
    you said he was "missing the point":
    Quote Originally Posted by B0wz3r View Post
    You're missing the point.
    but i don't really see that.

    he said "minimal difference" up to mid output, you said "almost exactly identical" except for max, pretty much the same point
    he said "more efficient on 200 lm and higher", you said "slightly higher output on max of the 190", pretty much the same point

    see?

    and as i mentioned earlier, he used Cree data sheets as his basis and you used Spark tech specs, which are probably about the same in terms of authority on this particular topic.
    Last edited by robostudent5000; 02-01-2012 at 08:23 PM.

  11. #311

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by robostudent5000 View Post
    the question was whether the H502 with the XML will be as efficient at lower outputs on a single AA as Zebra's current 1xAA models are that use the XPG.
    That's really my question. Thank you for stating it clearly and completely. I failed to mentioned in my post that I want to compare it to zebra's very efficient AA XP-G lights.

  12. #312
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Seeing as none of these ZL lights are being direct driven it may well be the relative efficiencies of the drivers that makes more difference to run times at lower levels, not the difference in efficiency of the emitters. Given that they are made by ZL who are known for excellent driver efficiency but continually try to improve I hope that the H502 will be even more efficient than their existing single AA lights.

    Testing once they are available will give a more definitive answer to the question, until then it is all speculation.
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  13. #313
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    "XM-L Color Separation"
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...lor-Separation

    "All of the XM-L samples I have tested have the color separation over the viewing axis. "

    If it's true - maybe, H502 / 602 with lens (instead on reflector) + XM-L isn't a good idea ?
    Last edited by evgeniy; 02-03-2012 at 03:23 PM.

  14. #314

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by evgeniy View Post
    "XM-L Color Separation"
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...lor-Separation

    "All of the XM-L samples I have tested have the color separation over the viewing axis. "

    If it's true - maybe, H502 / 602 with lens (instead on reflector) + XM-L isn't a good idea ?
    H502/H602 should be fine. reflectors, especially smooth reflectors, amplify this effect. effect should be minimal, probably unnoticeable, with just a plano convex lens.
    Last edited by robostudent5000; 02-03-2012 at 05:14 PM.

  15. #315
    Flashaholic ryguy24000's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    WFT is a 602? Another imaginary light to be released in Q4 of this year? Kill this thread already!

  16. #316
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    The 602 is the cold fusion nano tech model made for spotting Chem trails and shadow people.

  17. #317
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by psychbeat View Post
    The 602 is the cold fusion nano tech model made for spotting Chem trails and shadow people.
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  18. #318
    Flashaholic* B0wz3r's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    I'm going to hold off on a new headlamp for now. I'd love to have an H51fc, but I'm going to wait either for a 501c, or a 502w or 502c.
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  19. #319
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by B0wz3r View Post
    I'm going to hold off on a new headlamp for now. I'd love to have an H51fc, but I'm going to wait either for a 501c, or a 502w or 502c.
    I am so addicted to the "c" version I felt inclined to wait for the H502c but I don't think there is any form of high CRI XM-L emitters in the market yet. Not sure if we will get to see one soon.
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  20. #320
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by pjandyho View Post
    I am so addicted to the "c" version I felt inclined to wait for the H502c but I don't think there is any form of high CRI XM-L emitters in the market yet. Not sure if we will get to see one soon.
    Hopefully they will do one... if not, there's always the XPG and the Rebel they could use instead. I wouldn't not buy one if it had a Rebel instead of an XPG or XML.
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  21. #321
    Flashaholic nuggett's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Just thought I would chime in here. Been a ZB fan for a long time,own many, but they lost it dropping the pure flood for the reflectors and now delayed delivery for the 502 and 602. going Spark now.

  22. #322

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    you'll be back, wait and see.

    Quote Originally Posted by nuggett View Post
    Just thought I would chime in here. Been a ZB fan for a long time,own many, but they lost it dropping the pure flood for the reflectors and now delayed delivery for the 502 and 602. going Spark now.

  23. #323
    Flashaholic* Brasso's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    There aren't any high CRI xmls out yet, but the neutrals look pretty good. I have a Quark with their neutral xml in it and it doesn't seem to have any purple/yellow thing going on in the beam. Some people say it's a bit yellow/green, but I like it.

  24. #324

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Darn it doesn't sound good. On the up side I get to keep a bit of cash in my pocket.

  25. #325

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Are they still celebrating Chinese New Year or something? First quarter of 2012 is here and still no H502.
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  26. #326

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    CNY was more than a month ago. Maybe they encountered some of the technical problems that were mentioned in this thread.

  27. #327

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    sigh, holding out for the 502, but can't wait for long.

    Anyone know shipping times to Australia?

  28. #328
    Flashaholic* Samy's Avatar
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    It's about 16-20 days if you order direct from zebralight. It's about 8-10 days from going gear.

  29. #329

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
    Are they still celebrating Chinese New Year or something? First quarter of 2012 is here and still no H502.
    They're punishing you for sabotaging the Zebralight Mods thread. The lesson is, "Never deliberately mess with the content of a stickied reference thread."

    And hey, first quarter ain't over yet. I'd like to see the H502, too, but I'm not going to agonize over the release date. The release will happen when it happens -- and that's probably regardless of how much we complain about it here.

  30. #330
    Flashaholic* B0wz3r's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    At this point I think I'll probably just get an H51Fc as my next headlamp. Or if Spark comes out with a HCRI version of one of their all flood models.
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