In fact my H502d (170 lumens) is dramatically brighter than my H501w.
Again this is where i'm struggling to understand the requests for a narrower beam spread on the H502.
It really really does not need it in any situation i've used the light (and that is several hours over the past few weeks)
If you do the math assuming the 502 and 501 evenly distribute there lumens the beam intensity is higher on the 96 lumen 80deg beam than the 260 120deg beam. I don't have the 502 primarily because of this reason. so I can't do a real world comparison. However I run a lot with my 501 and it's sufficient for road running at decent clip 5:30/mi to 6:00/mi If I go on trails I bring something in hand with a little more throw. This is why I would love a 502 80 deg 260 lumen head lamp. Would like more throw to see obstacles further ahead. I haven't tried the 502 due to my scepticism of the 120deg beam, but perhaps I'm wrong and it's sufficient light or better than the 501. Would like to hear a real world comparison for running if someone has the time and both models.
80degree with more lux/brightness @ any given level as opposed to less lux and more spread @ 120
the 501 has a different driver and emitter so its hard to compare maximums.
some people might prefer (myself included) having the extra flood concentrated into a beam that is similar to the H501 but
with the more efficient emitter and better ergonomics of the H502
also - does there need to be 2 threads on this?
maybe we should talk about this in Davids poll thread.
So divide the lumens by area
(502 lumens / 120deg circle area) / (501 lumens / 80deg circle area ) =
(502 Lumens / 501 Lumens) * (80deg circle area / 120 deg circle area) =
(260/96) *(1/4.26) =
260/(96*4.26) = .64 the intensity of the 501 or 64% the intensity.
Maybe someone has both the H60 and the H502 and would compare them side by side for us. H60 (190 lumens, 80 degrees, positive meniscus lens) would make good comparison to see if a collimating lens gives better throw in real life.
ordered a H502d! However, I'm a bit worried at how green it might look, given by how green it looks on Esko's picture...
YoSeKi has had experience with the XM-Ls and has also stated that it is approximately 70% output within an 80º arc.
Assumptions can be wrong and trying to account for all of the variables in theory might not reflect reality.
Don't just believe what some stranger on the internet tells you either. Especially me! Because even if he has experience with something, he might not perceive or prefer things the way you do.
Some things you just have to see for yourself.
PS: 1000th post of the thread!!
Last edited by YoSeKi; 07-10-2012 at 06:43 PM. Reason: 1000th post of the thread!!
I'd be interested in seeing how the 70% number in the80deg arc was arrived at. Would appreciate any details on how this was arrived at. ~3/4 of the output in 1/4 of the beam area is not very even for a flood light.
Aspherical throwers often lose most of the led output because they only use the center beam. The aspheric version of the new Crelant thrower has only a small intensity gain compared to the reflector version. Aspheric lens uses the center beam. The reflector version uses the side spill, creating an almost as bright (but also wider) hotspot as the aspheric version (+the reflectored one has also spill, unlike the aspheric one).
Well, I am not an illumination designer, and certainly not a reflector or lens designer. But lets ad the custom shape reflectors, TIR lenses (like in Preon P0), matte finishes, white surface instead of mirror (practically the same efficiency but less directional), orange peel, very small reflectors compared to the led size (compare it to DEFT), partly transparent parts (like the current GITD reflector) etc. And the combinations of the different solutions.
I just received my H502d so I figure I butt in to give my impression. I own Surefire LX2 & Sunwayman V10 Ti original (not XML) and briefly own ZL H31F before I return and exchange for H502d. As you know I do not own many lights and inexperience to compare with many models.
Size: I didn't get "surprised" when i receive H502d. I sure did when I received H31F. Due to battery size difference, Comparing size to H31F is kinda Apple vs Orange. H502d sure is small and descent. H31F being noticeable smaller, the same time, it is a bit too small to be comfortably operate. My hand is already tiny as an adult. I have female size hand. Although I didn't get the initial excitement from H502d's size, it is more comfortable to operate that I don't feel afraid I will accidentally drop it.
Flood & Floody: Briefly own H31F and now own H502d I finally get the first hand experience the difference between the two. H502d is wider. Pretty amazing coverage from this little light. I sure understand why H502d is not a distance player. H31F doesn't provide as wide coverage. As much I love H502d coverage, I do wish it could light brighter at farther distance as H31F would but that is the trade off. My NYC living room is only 15ft X 10ft. At maximum distance, already feel it is not as bright as I wish. With that said, I am able to see everything clearly in 15ft. Just not that bright. This light is tiny, already impressive amount of light it put out.
Color Tint: This seems to be most of my concern. I shoot a lot of still live product photo and some time wish to fill light. H31F has blue-ish cool tint. To be honest, terrible rendering product color. It makes product color with purple color on top of products original colors. Main reason I return it. To work H502d with 100W light bulb together, H502d color tint appear to be slight cool at distance but no harsh purple color. At close rage, H502d fill the light really well. The cool color goes away. You only feel H502d color rendering is consider cool at 2ft or more distance. To work H502d with single Fluorescent (they call it daylight) together, H502d fill the light really well. At 1ft distance, it appear brighter than my fluorescent light on HIGH. The color tint appear to be less blue than the Fluorescent light source. Perfect light to fill at distance or close range. My photography under the same fluorescent with WB:daylight has been fantastic result. i have no doubt my H502d will be a good future side kick.
White wall hunting: This is most ppl's concern and unsure of. The reason is simple, because the light tint does change to eyes and it is hard to explain why since I am no scientist. Easier to understand when you see it yourself. Here I'll try to explain the best I can. In pure darkness in a white 15ft x 10ft room with only H502d on high. At distance 10ft+, the light tint appear or feel like it is cool. Because definitely no yellow tint. There is no purple/blue-ish tint. You can fairly say, it is WHITE, white. Because there is no warm/cool tint, the color do feel cold. At palm width distance to wall, H502d appear to be cool-ish white at center and a hint of green at end outer rim. At finger length distance to wall, and compare side by side with LX2 and V10R. H502d in comparison the beam tint appear to be warm. It appear slight warm in color. That is what makes H502d tint tricky to describe.
Sum it up: IMHO, I don't think it is GITD that give out a hint of green at outter rim. Not scientific proof of course. I as I said, H502d at finger length looks slightly warm and when you back a little farther, due to not enough brightness at outer rim, the hint of warmness became green-ish on white wall. When back it out a lot more, the hint of warmness goes away not noticeable at all to eyes and became over all white/white. Because the white is so pure, eyes will proceed the color as cool feel. The end of the day, less likely anyone will use H502d at finger distance or palm distance will feel the light is behave on the cool side overall. I will bring this light to camping this weekend. I'll feed you guys more of my personal experience using it in the wild. As short distance for fill light photography, this light tint perhaps is my best bet for the purpose. Personally, I def will not buy another Zebralight Cool tint light in the future. Even they are so much brighter. I just hate the color. BTW...the pocket clip is hard on Zebralight. I was moving it slightly around, the clip do scratch the light finish...
Last edited by wuyeah; 07-10-2012 at 09:22 PM.
LEDs aren't flood lights [pure point sources] unless they are de-domed.
The H501 & H502 use their own means of controlling distribution.
So the H502 is more versatile with the wider distribution, unless the extra beam angle causes glare with eyeglasses.
But for running, why not just use the H51Fw? I re-routed Zebralight's inferior band system so the silicone holder no longer just hangs off the headband, and bounces with each step. [I will still acquire the NiteIze headband in the future].
I just tested my H31Fw outside, and the 35 lumen mode is plenty bright on brown-ish midwestern grass [perfect for jogging pace]. The 98 lumen is gratuitously bright [running], and the 180 lumen mode seems bright enough for a sprint.
So an H51Fw with an Energizer L91 should give 3.5 hours on its 82 lumen mode, and 2.5 hours on its 115 lumen mode. So how fast is your marathon pace? [would the TI crAA 14505 possibly last even longer due to higher voltage, and hence higher circuit efficiency?]
My above H502d review is perform with Energizer Ultimate Lithium x9 (improved) batteries. Man, they are mad expensive. $15 for 4. I thought CR123 was pricy.....
Question, Is AA lithium really perform that much better over Energizer Alkaline or Energizer Max batteries in term of performance time and brightness? If not, I prob should run it with Alkaline AA or not as expensive Lithium batteries. What you guys recommendation for AA batteries run on ZL?
Firstly the h502 has a total of 120 degree spread, that is 60 degrees either side of centre.
Head on (0 degrees), the xm-l's output is obviously at the peak of its distribution (100%).
At a 40 degree angle either side of centre (80 degrees total, ie a h501), the XM-L is at ~85% of peak intensity. So you wouldn't notice this small falloff in general.
At 60 degrees either side of center (120 degrees total, ie a h502), its intensity is 55% of the peak which you will notice only a little bit. This also does NOT mean that 55% of the light is in the 120 degree spread, just that at a 60 degree angle the lux is 55% that of 0 degrees - see further below.
At 80 degrees either side of centre (160 degrees total), its intensity is just 15% of the peak. This is a total 160 degree spread, not 80 degrees. The 15% is a measurement of lux at that angle, not lumens that are output at more than 80 degrees off centre.
None of this takes into account any kind of lenses or reflectors, its purely what comes out of the led.
To calculate the proportion of lumens coming out at different angles needs a bit of math. Using rough figures from the graph in the cree spec sheet, I get the following
0-20 degrees (40 total): 11% of lumens
0-40 degrees (80 total): 41% of lumens
0-60 degrees (120 total): 77% of lumens
So the edge of the 502's beam, only gets 55% of the intensity that the centre of the beam gets direct from the led unless it is using a lens to adjust this. And 23% of the led's output is hitting the "reflector" (unless there is a lens between the led and the reflector).
If someone wants to check my maths that would be nice. Note I used the following numbers:
region relative intensity 0-20 96% 20-40 90% 40-60 70% 60-80 35% 80-90 5%
Last edited by bbb74; 07-10-2012 at 10:59 PM.
Guys, please stop it with the mattthhhhhh.
I have a lux meter, and a quick handheld test gave a result that the beam intensity drops to ~50% at the periphery (measured at the same distance - it would drop more on white wall because the distance is not constant).
Update: 15 days and no reply from zebralight for the h502 i sent for an rma. I think I will never buy one of their lights again
Last edited by riccardo.dv; 07-12-2012 at 08:51 AM.
here are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't
Anyway, I was using my h502c last night to read with, and I have to admit that when I moved and the edge of the beam ended up on the book, I didn't like the yellowy-greeny edge of the beam which is a shame because the overall tint is fantastic. The coloured band is in the edge of the main beam which includes light coming directly from the led (the led is directly contributing light to the green bit of the beam). ie. The green tinted bit contains light coming from the led and reflector, not just from the reflector only. Yet the reflector is not that bright at that angle so I still don't really get why it happens so visibly.
Last edited by bbb74; 07-12-2012 at 05:43 AM.
You use the H501 to run with and wish it was brighter and therefore throw better. You are not alone. I had the H501 and felt the same way. The H502 with 260lm, if made in an 80 degree beam, might have been the answer. Would 260lm in an 80 degree beam provide more throw than 80lm in an 80 degree beam? I would think so.
You post is so clear I think a doorknob would understand. Thank you.
EDC: Zebralight H51w; Backup/loaner: Maratac AAA
Zebralight Mods: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=293092
The only useful tool is the one you have with you when you need it.
but if we knew how much lux the light produced at 1 meter we would have a general idea of how dispersed the light is when compared to other lights and even when just looking at the stats, X amount of lux at one meter with a X foot area of coverage.. that's something I can wrap my head around
I put my H502c to hard use last night.
A contractor and I are re-roofing my garage, starting with a complete tear-off. Tricky summer weather here, 104 degrees in the day, but thunderstorms can build with little warning. Yesterday I thought I heard thunder around 5 pm, and told the contractor I really, really wanted to get the tar paper on, by the end of the day. So we pushed it hard, and started laying the tar paper around 2 hrs AFTER sunset.
So this is a difficult test for a headlamp: I'm putting on a pitch-black substance which soaks up light like a sponge. But it must be placed with a precise overlap and no bubbles or wrinkles. Due to various obstacles the job took several hours so I needed runtime. And I'm clinging to the side of a 40-degree roof, which wants to pitch me off, so the light is vital to safety as well (seeing where to step, stubbing toe on a shiner, etc.)
The color of the OSB ("plywood") is about the same color as our compressed air hoses, yellow. I was able to make out the subtle difference in color well enough to not step on a line (they'll roll underfoot, and off the roof you go!). There was enough light with enough runtime to complete the job on the Medium (Hi) level, and I probably could have used the Hi (Lo) level but was conserving runtime as I had forgotten to put a spare cell in my pocket. (Dumb.)
There were two or thee times when I "ran out of light" at the edge of the beam--ie, the beam was not quite wide enough!! This required repositioning my body so I could throw the beam where it needed to go...but this was a learning moment about the importance of a full flood for close work. The H502c now replaces the narrower-beamed H501 as my preferred work light, primarily because of its extra beam width.
Verdict: Wide beam, sufficient illumination, good color rendering, no falls, tough job completed. A keeper. Will need to get a spare, likely a "w" for comparison purposes.
It seems my last post was lost so here it goes again.
I received my 502c a few days ago. There is an obvious green hue around the outer edge but I can't really see it in real use so it doesn't bother me. I can also see some light leaking through around the switch boot so I guess this means that I got one of the less than water resistant duds. It's going back and I just may wait a few more months for a revision to be released. This is my first true flood light and I'm so excited that I'm not ready to give up on the 502c just yet..
I'm looking for a Spyderco Cat C129CF & Chicago C130CF! LMK if you have one that you're willing to part with.