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Thread: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

  1. #721

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    It's best to avoid terms like "neutral", "outdoor", "daylight", or "cool" when it comes to these things and use actual K numbers because the terms mean different things depending on what you're talking about. FWIW the sunny/sunlight white balance on my digital camera is actually set at around 5200K.

  2. #722

    Thinking Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by R11 View Post
    But that depends on one's particular situation and point of view. Understanding that this is a flashlight forum and therefore the mindset of most of the posters is probably a bit different from the person who doesn't generally carry a light around with them in their pocket at all times, or have a "stable" of lights to pick the best tool for the specific job. Sometimes a person might simply be looking for a nice, small, all around light to use for multiple purposes to which a flood type light (that can be worn as a headlamp if desired) makes a lot of sense. Then that person will likely also be interested to know how far it will illuminate enough to see into the distance for those uses as well...
    It depends on a persons point of view, but if you are looking for an all round light, you want something in the middle. Neither full flood light, nor super thrower. These lights are great for certain purposes, but if you want the light to be useable in all normal situations, it needs to be something from the middle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolster View Post
    I don't know if this chart is helpful or not...it's calling 5500 "Day White." Whatever that means. I guess that's your "Outdoor White."

    At this link there's an attempt to show LEDs with the various colors...
    (I guess you mixed your links (that link goes to the same chart you included as an image).)

    I am not fully sure what you are trying to say, but I'll ad one link and quote from NASA (emphasis mine):

    Quote Originally Posted by NASA
    All hot substances radiate light, either the visible kind or beyond the rainbow spectrum, in the "infra red" (IR; "below red") and "ultra violet" (UV; "above violet") ranges. This glow [called "black body radiation" by physicists--the glow of a body with no color of its own] is the way a red-hot piece of iron or the filament in an electric light bulb produce light. The hotter the object, the brighter it shines, and the further away from red is its color. Conversely, the color of a hot object (if it is dense) tells us how hot it is. In the case of the Sun, the color of the photosphere suggests a temperature of 5780 degrees Kelvin (degrees Celsius measured from the absolute zero, about 5500° C.)
    In other words, the CCT of sunlight (without varying effects of atmosphere) is 5780K.

    edit: Sorry, the links were not mixed.
    Last edited by Esko; 06-18-2012 at 03:20 PM.

  3. #723

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by Esko View Post
    In other words, the CCT of sunlight (without varying effects of atmosphere) is 5780K.
    Type in "temperature of the sun" in Google! Try it!

  4. #724

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by Esko View Post
    It depends on a persons point of view, but if you are looking for an all round light, you want something in the middle. Neither full flood light, nor super thrower. These lights are great for certain purposes, but if you want the light to be useable in all normal situations, it needs to be something from the middle.
    Well, my point was that just because a person wants to know what the effective range of a light is doesn't automatically mean they need something other than a floodlamp . As long as a light does what you want that's all that matters. The poster was just trying to asses the range of the light to make that decision. Personally, my definition of all around has nothing to do with longer throw at all. My needs are general, even lighting with no hotspots surrounded by useless fill. If I can get a flood lamp that also has enough power (with decent runtime) so I can see well within 30' or so it's the perfect all around light for me.


    ron

  5. #725
    Flashaholic* Bolster's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Since ZL is following the marketing strategy of "a different light for every need," maybe they should consider making a 60-degree full flood. Would have some of the advantage of a full flood, and a little reach as well. (For comparison, 60 degrees is the beam spread of the SF Minimus--I think?--80 degrees on the H501, and 120 for the H502.)

    Then folks buying a full-flood H502 wouldn't have to worry so much they were getting insufficient reach for their needs.
    Last edited by Bolster; 06-18-2012 at 07:15 PM.

  6. #726
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolster View Post
    I thought that 4800 (direct sunlight) was the dividing line between cool and warm...no?
    Warm being from incandescent [thermal] radiation. Cree uses the melting point of tungsten as their upper limit for warm, 3700K.
    Philips uses 3500K-4500K as neutral. 5000K is the warmer end of cool-white.

  7. #727

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman5 View Post
    I asked Zebralight when they thought the H502w would be released, and got this response last night:

    "Don't know the dates yet. We are still waiting for the 'w' LEDs with the tint we like.

    Sincerely,

    Lillian Xu
    ZebraLight, Inc.
    8320 Sterling Street
    Irving, TX 75063"
    Excellent. Here's hoping it's the XM-l S6 90-CRI but would be happy with a T3

  8. #728
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by tickled View Post
    It's best to avoid terms like "neutral", "outdoor", "daylight", or "cool" when it comes to these things and use actual K numbers because the terms mean different things depending on what you're talking about. FWIW the sunny/sunlight white balance on my digital camera is actually set at around 5200K.
    Well said. This color temp thing is purely subjective when using terms such as warm, neutral and cool.... one persons neutral is anothers cool is anothers warm. High CRI and color temp are separate measures but have been somewhat correlated in the past (High CRI emitters have traditionally been "warmer"). Zebralight is doing great by providing multiple options.

    The regular H502 is providing the highest output with the Cree XML with a "cool white temperature", 6300K, and relatively low CRI (CRI 65). The D version will provide a High CRI option (85 CRI) with a "cooler/neutral temperature", 5000K. The C version will provide a High CRI option (85 CRI) at a "warmer temperature", 4000K. The W version will provide a Good CRI Option (75 CRI), with a "warmer/neutral temperature", 4200K. The C and D versions are using the Phillips Rebel, while the W and regular versions are using the Cree XML. Reference the Zebralight Compare All Models for further specs (including max lumens): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...CNqP6KIC#gid=0.

    I hope that makes sense, if it doesn't do some searching on the forum and it will, there are some great threads explaining color temps, CRI, etc. (I don't think we want this thread to derail into a CRI/Color Temp battle/discussion, but rather stay on topic of this awesome H502 and its many options). There isn't a best emitter/version, it's personal preference IMO.
    Last edited by TyJo; 06-18-2012 at 09:57 PM.

  9. #729

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by TyJo View Post
    The W version will provide a Good CRI Option (75 CRI), with a "warmer/neutral temperature", 4200K.
    I know that's what is in the spreadsheet but I read into the response that Outdoorsman5 got from Zebralight is that they are waiting for other W LED's. Unless they've run out of the W LED's they currently use in the HL600w, I'm hoping that it will be a warm white or better. I won't be disappointed if it was the neutral though.

  10. #730

    Post Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by TyJo View Post
    High CRI and color temp are separate measures but have been somewhat correlated in the past (High CRI emitters have traditionally been "warmer"). Zebralight is doing great by providing multiple options.

    ...

    I hope that makes sense, if it doesn't do some searching on the forum and it will, there are some great threads explaining color temps, CRI, etc. (I don't think we want this thread to derail into a CRI/Color Temp battle/discussion...
    Not to go to any detail any more, but just one clarification. This correlation/"tradition" is only true for leds and it has been due to both current led technology (blue leds and phosphors) and the limited methods used in the old (standard) way to determine the cri.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Floppy View Post
    Excellent. Here's hoping it's the XM-l S6 90-CRI but would be happy with a T3
    That would be quite a surprise. On the other hand, they have 4000K-6300K well covered, with some high cris included in the range. And some blue and red lights, too. The real warm white/incan white/3000K is pretty much the only light they are still missing.

  11. #731
    Flashaholic* Bolster's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by Esko View Post
    This correlation/"tradition" is only true for leds and it has been due to both current led technology (blue leds and phosphors) and the limited methods used in the old (standard) way to determine the cri.
    Not understanding...one more time please? Thanks

  12. #732
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolster View Post
    Not understanding...one more time please? Thanks
    I think Esko means that LED design limits the CCT-CRI relationship, and also that CRI isn't the most accurate color rendering index.

  13. #733

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by TyJo View Post
    Well said. This color temp thing is purely subjective when using terms such as warm, neutral and cool.... one persons neutral is anothers cool is anothers warm. High CRI and color temp are separate measures but have been somewhat correlated in the past (High CRI emitters have traditionally been "warmer"). Zebralight is doing great by providing multiple options.
    I was actually talking about context. Depending on context neutral can mean anything from 4000K-5500K, cool can mean 4000K-6500K, daylight can mean 5000K-6500K as I don't think there's any standardized definition for those words. Sometimes when people use these words interchangeably in place of the actual temperature, it can get very confusing.

  14. #734

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Getting back to the topic at hand, I've cross-referenced the luminosity specs of the base and daylight versions and added in the projected values for the neutral XM-L based on the bins ZL had used previously. Here's what I got:

    H502 XM-L 6300 K 260 160 100 50 25 12
    H502w XM-L 4200 K 224 138 86 43 22 10
    H502d Rebel 5000 K 170 110 72 40 20 10
    Efficiency (H502d to H502) 65,4% 68,8% 72,0% 80,0% 80,0% 83,3%

    Again, keep in mind that the H502w values here are projected, not in any way confirmed; they're based on the data listed in ZebraLight's specs for SC600 and H600. If ZL is looking for a better bin, these values are likely to be false (then again, consequently they might just turn out even better).

    Anyway, look at the numbers. Note how the Rebel is a hog at high settings, only having 2/3 of the 6.3K XM-L's brightness, but it quickly closes the gap on medium, becoming virtually indistinguishable from the projected values for the 4.2K XM-L while still having a higher CRI. Considering that the use for highest settings on an all-flood lamp is rather dubious—unless your pocket is somehow always full of L91s—it appears to be a really good choice after all. I'll still wait for the actual 502w specs; if they happen to be even closer to the 6.3K values than what I've predicted it'll be a tough choice indeed.

  15. #735

    Post Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolster View Post
    Not understanding...one more time please? Thanks
    The cri is measured with a set of test colors, most of which are pretty light and unsaturated. As far as I know, most colors are usually rendered fairly well by leds but there is one exception: bright red. It is rendered relatively badly, thus contributing to a relatively big drop in cri. Cool whites don't emit much red light. Warm whites emit more, which makes the rendering of red colors better (better = more similar to the colors rendered by a filament bulb of the same CCT).

    -> some others

    I believe ZL is the only manufacturer that produces high cri headlamps, the lights are offered in both high cri and standard cri ranging from 4000K to 6300K, and H502d is the first headlamp if not the first production led light offered in high cri at 5000K. The led is the only difference between the different models. I can't quite understand why discussing about the effects of cri (and cct) in a few short messages would be off topic. Especially since many members have been asking about the differences and trade-offs and have been unsure which model to buy.

  16. #736

    Arrow Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    sheeesh, has anybody received their headlamp??? How come nobody is posting any pictures???
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  17. #737
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    Quote Originally Posted by saypat View Post
    sheeesh, has anybody received their headlamp??? How come nobody is posting any pictures???
    Or a video please, side by side with a h51


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  18. #738

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Sorry, i don't have pics, if I got the energy I'll try tonight after work. Never posted pics before so that could problematic. Anyway, this is a FANTASTIC little task light for anything. It's insanely bright if you need it, or insanely low also. The 120 spread is awesome, I have no glare problems at all and wear reading glasses for close work. The wall of light is huge, at 12 inches there is 3 1/2 to 4 foot beam. I love it. I use it at work in electrical enclosures and it is perfect for that. It is perfect for anything close.
    I've tried it outside in the woods by work. If your picking your way on a faint trail you will need a little more throw maybe, and something incandescent like helps. On a well worn trail this headlamp would be more than adequate. It beats a mini mag which used to be the main light I carried hunting many moons ago, LOL. That WASN'T fun, and a lot of time's I'd lose the trail and end up having to cut through a swamp or some pine trees or blowdowns. I wasn't lost, just couldn't find the easy trail. Anyway, I digress. bottom line here is if you don't want to lose the trail get a decent incan or HCRI with both flood and throw, not this headlamp.
    It seems tough, I've dropped it a few times and it hasn't broke. It doesn't seem as prone to coming on in the pocket as the H51, it hasn't happened once to me, and I don't lock it out. My H51 came on a lot. My H-51 has a cracked lens and is also dead. This puppy seems tougher, time will tell. The fit and finish are Surefire quality to my eye. Oh yeah, it's even a little smaller than the H51.
    It has a way to program sub levels, I doubt I'll ever use that feature. The six default levels work just fine for me. Someday maybe I'll play with that.
    In summary, the only thing better would be an XML implanted in your forhead, controlled by thought, and also rotatable like a zebralight.


  19. #739

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Someone needs to design a stick on lens to make a pure flood headlamp into a more focused model... maybe something akin to a fresnel lens
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  20. #740
    Flashaholic* Bolster's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by Esko View Post
    The cri is measured with a set of test colors...
    Interesting. (And IMHO, totally on topic, given the choice of CRIs ZL offers.) I was aware of the orange/red deficiency in the standard LED, and thought they had trouble rendering blue-green as well. I've not actually seen the spectrum histogram for the high CRIs ZL is offering, however. Does anyone here know where it might be viewed?

    I believe SF also has a high CRI Saint available, the Vision. Other than ZL and SF, I can't think of other high CRI offerings in headlamps. I'd expect Spark to have something soon. Sure wished Quark would make a headlamp.

  21. #741
    Flashaholic* pobox1475's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Arc View Post
    Someone needs to design a stick on lens to make a pure flood headlamp into a more focused model... maybe something akin to a fresnel lens
    Petzl Tikka XP's have this feature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esko View Post
    It depends on a persons point of view, but if you are looking for an all round light, you want something in the middle. Neither full flood light, nor super thrower. These lights are great for certain purposes, but if you want the light to be useable in all normal situations, it needs to be something from the middle.
    My thought is to use a 502 supplemented with something like my JetBeam 3M XML or RRT-21 to give the best of both worlds.
    Last edited by pobox1475; 06-20-2012 at 12:10 PM.

  22. #742
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Duplicate post, sorry please remove...

  23. #743

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    OK, my little contribution to the photos of the H502. This one is a gift for someone else, but while in my hands I'm taking the opportunity for a few photos. I do plan on getting one of my own before too long.

    H501w (left), H502 (middle), H600 (right).






  24. #744

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Its been a while since I posted my little write up.

    I was able to compare my H502 with my brothers V10a XML side by side, and the H502 certainly has a noticeably greener outer rim that I can only contribute to the GITD "reflector".

    With that said, I would rather have the GITD reflector than not.

    Everyone I show the light has been as impressed as I am, its one of those things that almost no one thought they wanted until they experience it and realize how limiting their throwy lights are in so many uses in comparison.

    I think an H600w or SC600w would be a perfect compliament to this light. I haven't bought one yet because I don't have a good li-ion charger so the initial cost is kinda high for the 18650 light.
    Last edited by Cunha; 06-20-2012 at 07:08 PM.

  25. #745

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Outdoor beamshots, anyone? Please?

  26. #746

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    What do you want to see Moozooh? A path in a dark wooded area to see how functional it is on a hike? Or how it lights up my porch?

  27. #747
    Flashaholic CamoNinja's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by Cunha View Post
    A path in a dark wooded area to see how functional it is on a hike?
    This

  28. #748
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Whitewall beamshots with a normal reflectored light?

  29. #749
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    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    Quote Originally Posted by Esko View Post
    I can't quite understand why discussing about the effects of cri (and cct) in a few short messages would be off topic. Especially since many members have been asking about the differences and trade-offs and have been unsure which model to buy.
    If you are referring to my post I was just hoping that this discussion would follow how CRI/color temp/CCT/etc. relates to the H502, which it has. I have seen other threads derailed and closed because they turn into pissing matches of which is better and who knows more. There are many members who know more than I (and have corrected me, and I have learned alot) on these topics and I feel the CRI/color temp/CCT discussion is relevant for this light/headlamp, especially since it is offered in so many options. I have learned a lot in these dedicated "CRI/color temp/CCT" discussions I just wanted this discussion to stay relevant to the H502, which it has.

  30. #750

    Default Re: ZebraLight H502 XM-L

    I imagine that the reason no one's doing beamshots (especially outdoors) is that no one has a camera with enough of a wide-angle lens to do the beam justice. A fisheye lens might be able to capture it, but that would foul up the true perspective.

    It looks to me that unless you're doing relatively close-up wall shots, you won't be able to effectively capture the H502 beam with still shots unless you stitch them. At four feet from a wall, I see a beam spread of about 12 feet side to side. No lens I have will capture that from the wearer's perspective...so you'd have to place the camera well behind the lamp...and then you lose user perspective.

    The thing I like about the H502 (just an initial impression) is that it really allows the user to take advantage of peripheral vision in a way that's unlike any headlamp I've seen. No tunnel vision effect. Personally, I really like that. To me, this headlamp is a winner.

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